How to kill Caelia Draconis without a bounty?

[Sam90]

No matter what I do I always end up with a 40 or 1000 bounty. Even in the Inn when there is nobody nearby, she can still somehow report me and I get bounty. This game can get very frustrating because of its stupidity.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

Completing the Thieves Guild gives you an artifact which is very useful for this particular quest.

I find this one immensely annoying though. The worst part of any quest in the game.

[Sam90]

Guys I managed to legitimately kill her without getting a bounty in the guards barrack while she was asleep.
I created a 100% chameleon spell (my character is a master illusionist and an expert in sneak (level 81) ) I hit her while she was in the Inn, she didn't attack me and she fled across Leyawiin's map -I didn't get any bounty as she didn't detect me when I hit her even after the chameleon spell wore off- I left her at low health till she got to the guards barrack to sleep and I delivered the final blow there!

[Sam90]

Luckily I still have the save game to confirm. At 4:00 PM she will be sleeping in the guards barrack, just sneak attack (100% chameleon armor/ spell are prefered in this case) one-hit-kill her with anything while she is asleep, and you won't incur any bounty.

Any attempt to even kill her at the Inn will always put a bounty in your head whether you are detected or not.

This solution might be hard to come by as this game is quite old and is not very popular these days. I tried google search to find a solution and all of them didn't work for me even the ones in the wiki and uesp (I didn't try the poison solution though as my character's alchemy skill is quite low).

And frenzy is useless for me as the max level it works with is 25 in the custom spell altar and the guards in my game are level 40.

I hope this helps people in this frustrating quest.

Oh and thanks for trying to help guys :) .

[Rithm Fluffderg]

Now try doing it without 100% chameleon

[BondageSpider]

Regarding 100% Chameleon: Chameleon sources stack. Once you have high enough Alchemy skill and gear to make 25% or better Chameleon potions, you can just make four and drink them all at once. This will give you 100% until they run out, of course it ties up all four of your potion slots until it expires. These potions are also available sometimes in stores or loot at higher level. If your Alchemy isn't quite good enough, then find a robe/ring/whatever with Chameleon and make up the difference with potions, etc.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

Supreme Magicka disables the overpoweredness of Chameleon - instead, any Chameleon over 85% counts as "Invisibility" which is temporarily disabled to 85% Chameleon whenever you perform an action. This means that you cannot cheat the system anymore.

Personally, if I'm going to use 100% chameleon, I might as well just use the console commands to remove my bounty... and enable god mode while I'm at it.

So again. Do it without 100% Chameleon. I already know how. I just dislike this quest.

[Theo Hardmeier]

Originalmente postado por BH Sam90:

Luckily I still have the save game to confirm. At 4:00 PM she will be sleeping in the guards barrack, just sneak attack (100% chameleon armor/ spell are prefered in this case) one-hit-kill her with anything while she is asleep, and you won't incur any bounty.

Any attempt to even kill her at the Inn will always put a bounty in your head whether you are detected or not.

This solution might be hard to come by as this game is quite old and is not very popular these days. I tried google search to find a solution and all of them didn't work for me even the ones in the wiki and uesp (I didn't try the poison solution though as my character's alchemy skill is quite low).

And frenzy is useless for me as the max level it works with is 25 in the custom spell altar and the guards in my game are level 40.

I hope this helps people in this frustrating quest.

Oh and thanks for trying to help guys :) .

Little secret with the max level frenzy spell.

If you have 100% spell effectiveness a max level frenzy spell will affect higher levels.
But drop even to 95% effectiveness then the spell only works on 25 or less as stated.

They added that little quirk so frenzy does not become useless at very high levels.

[Sam90]

Originalmente postado por StarFox Fanboy:

Supreme Magicka disables the overpoweredness of Chameleon - instead, any Chameleon over 85% counts as "Invisibility" which is temporarily disabled to 85% Chameleon whenever you perform an action. This means that you cannot cheat the system anymore.

Personally, if I'm going to use 100% chameleon, I might as well just use the console commands to remove my bounty... and enable god mode while I'm at it.

So again. Do it without 100% Chameleon. I already know how. I just dislike this quest.

Since 100% chameleon is allowed in the game without using any exploits or using cheats or console commands it is a 100% legit mechanic, otherwise the developers would have maxed it out at 85% from the start. Being overpowered that's another matter, but still logically not considered cheating since I am not bypassing the game mechanics by using cheats or console commands and playing it as intended. Also it is a single player game so I play it as I see fit, and I am not bound by your rules.

Originalmente postado por Theo Hardmeier:

Originalmente postado por BH Sam90:

Luckily I still have the save game to confirm. At 4:00 PM she will be sleeping in the guards barrack, just sneak attack (100% chameleon armor/ spell are prefered in this case) one-hit-kill her with anything while she is asleep, and you won't incur any bounty.

Any attempt to even kill her at the Inn will always put a bounty in your head whether you are detected or not.

This solution might be hard to come by as this game is quite old and is not very popular these days. I tried google search to find a solution and all of them didn't work for me even the ones in the wiki and uesp (I didn't try the poison solution though as my character's alchemy skill is quite low).

And frenzy is useless for me as the max level it works with is 25 in the custom spell altar and the guards in my game are level 40.

I hope this helps people in this frustrating quest.

Oh and thanks for trying to help guys :) .

Little secret with the max level frenzy spell.

If you have 100% spell effectiveness a max level frenzy spell will affect higher levels.
But drop even to 95% effectiveness then the spell only works on 25 or less as stated.

They added that little quirk so frenzy does not become useless at very high levels.

Thanks for the tip bro.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

Originalmente postado por BH Sam90:

Originalmente postado por StarFox Fanboy:

Supreme Magicka disables the overpoweredness of Chameleon - instead, any Chameleon over 85% counts as "Invisibility" which is temporarily disabled to 85% Chameleon whenever you perform an action. This means that you cannot cheat the system anymore.

Personally, if I'm going to use 100% chameleon, I might as well just use the console commands to remove my bounty... and enable god mode while I'm at it.

So again. Do it without 100% Chameleon. I already know how. I just dislike this quest.

Since 100% chameleon is allowed in the game without using any exploits or using cheats or console commands it is a 100% legit mechanic, otherwise the developers would have maxed it out at 85% from the start. Being overpowered that's another matter, but still logically not considered cheating since I am not bypassing the game mechanics by using cheats or console commands and playing it as intended. Also it is a single player game so I play it as I see fit, and I am not bound by your rules.

Okay, but in the meantime, try giving some advice that doesn't rely on an exploit.

Like I did.

[CullinB]

Originalmente postado por StarFox Fanboy:

Originalmente postado por BH Sam90:

Okay, but in the meantime, try giving some advice that doesn't rely on an exploit.
Like I did.

Btw I am trying to create a quest to return the cowl to Nocturnal

[BondageSpider]

I do think 100% Chameleon kind of sucks the fun out of things if you use it all the time (like enchanting armor with it) and it could stand to be nerfed. There are many other blatantly unbalanced things in the game, though. LIke 100% Reflect Damage, Reflect Spell, and/or Resist Magic are also probably too easy to get. Really, any such effect that stacks should have been capped somewhere. (But they made sure to cap armor effectiveness at 85% even though armor in this game kinda sucks to begin with, sigh.)
I try to avoid stacking Chameleon for that reason, although once your Illusion is high enough to cast Invisibility spells at will, the effect is almost as drastic.
I think Chameleon and Invisibility probably weren't meant to be the gamebreakers they are, since the manual mentions that enemies might still hear your footsteps or something, but in the actual game that never seems to matter, so maybe that feature was never fully developed..Also, enemies with Detect Life spells or gear never think to use it to find you.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

100% Chameleon completely disables all actors' abilities to fight back against you, preventing them from being able to do anything against you.

It only takes common sense to realize how much of an exploit this is.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

Originalmente postado por ZM | Dr. Dro:

Originalmente postado por StarFox Fanboy:

100% Chameleon completely disables all actors' abilities to fight back against you, preventing them from being able to do anything against you.

It only takes common sense to realize how much of an exploit this is.

Yes but because the AI isn't programmed to hit back in the direction they've been hit, they are capable of listening to your footsteps but once they reach the position you were supposed to be, there's nothing there, so they stay on guard for a while and then go their business, it's more of a rudimentary AI issue than anything else and the reason I believe they took that spell out of Skyrim, actually. But since it's attainable without cheating, it is a legal move

Yes, but it's still an exploit, and there are several people who use mods, and many of these mods fix this exploit as one of the many things they do.

Not to mention a lot of people don't feel comfortable using 100% Chameleon BECAUSE of how powerful it is.

Hence, it's not good advice to give. This is the sole point I'm making, but you seem to be taking it WAY too personally. Nocturnal's Cowl is explicitly designed to transfer your bounty onto a mythological figure, which is why it works in this scenario.

You have many tools that don't rely on completely breaking the game. Recommend those first. Use the game-breaking tools as a last resort.

[Sam90]

If those people don't want to use 100% chameleon it is their problem and I don't give two craps about them. This is a solution for only those who have no issues with it. I am not sure what's so hard to understand. Also not everybody wants to joint the thieves guild and beat the enitre questline to get the cowl of nocturnal especially those who choose a specific way of gameplay.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

This isn't that hard to understand.

100% Chameleon is not *supposed* to completely break enemy AI. It does so as an oversight, which makes it an exploit.

The Gray Cowl of Nocturnal is *supposed* to be a method to nullify your bounty. It is *supposed* to put your bounty onto a mythological figure. And unlike 100% Chameleon, it actually takes effort to obtain, which makes it a well-earned "cheap" tactic.

This part of the quest is always my least favorite, but I have never had to rely on 100% Chameleon to do it. It may work best, but you know what also works best? Opening the console, selecting the NPC, and typing "kill". And that's pretty much exactly what you're doing except it takes a few more clicks of the mouse - the NPC can't fight back either way.

Also, really? "I don't give two ♥♥♥♥♥ about [people who don't want to use 100% Chameleon?]" Then step aside and leave helping people who ACTUALLY want to help people.

"Also not everybody wants to joint the thieves guild and beat the enitre questline to get the cowl of nocturnal especially those who choose a specific way of gameplay."

I imagine that any specific way of gameplay that rejects the Thieves Guild would also reject 100% Chameleon, then.