Breton's are truly the best race

[Shikabane屍]

Speaking as a man who has admittedly put more hours into this game than they have doing anything productive- between my disk version on my old pc years ago- to the ps3 version- now to my steam version with over 600 hours on that one alone. I can say without a shadow of a doubt- Bretons are simply- the single best race without any argument.

Magic is by far the most OP way to play oblivion due to its broken spellmaking system- with magic you can make spells that let you travel faster than jet planes, instant kill enemies with endurance manipulation, Telekinesis glitch an atronach character to have FREE spells, rain down absolute chaos with AOE spells- and oh so much more. Compared to Stealth/Archery and Melee builds there is no contest- even with super poisons your archery and melee builds will simply never be able to keep up with the sheer dps output you can do as a properly built mage.

But the High Elf- surely this is better correct? Atronach + High Elf is one of the most powerful builds yes indeed- no question achieving the impressive 450 magicka (200 INT, 100 Racial bonus, 150 Birthsign) as your base is impressive yes- accompanied with Necromancer amulet obtainable with the Skull of Corruption glitch alongside a full gear of fortify magicka sigil stone clothes and a little bit of telekinesis manipulation you too can reign supereme.

However the breton can do this and more without atronach- to the point where i pick Breton Mage for EVERY. SINGLE. BUILD. and every single challenge run. No Equip Load? Breton. Pacifist Run? Breton. Bow only? Breton.

Why? because their natural 50% resist magic is completely utterly good throughout the entire game- where as the weakness of the high elf is a detriment and the mediocre abilities of most other races get powercrept- (orcs get 25% which is fine but yeesh they ugly tho) but 50 bonus magic and 50% resistance is NEVER useless, even in the late game.

By level 22 Raven Camoran drops one of (if not the most) powerful ring in the game the Mundane Ring which whilst on a breton gives you complete immunity to all magic, which is excellent for dealing with late game liches with reflect magic and waves upon waves of Gloom Wraiths.

Meaning you have a free ring slot for 'The Ring of the Iron Fist' "Necklace of swords" (or the axe one if you perfer), and the Level 25+ Escutcheon of Chorrol (which only reduces your Spell Effectiveness if you actually wear it, I.E. wield a 2 handed weapon, staff, bow, or no weapon and you're fine) and BAM 100% reflect damage, now the only things that can harm you are gravity, and arrows, meaning most things cant even touch your now godly character.

Yes other races can achieve this with way more enchantment slots- but as a breton you still can have a Shirt/Blouse, Skirt/Pant, Shoes, Wrist Irons, and hood for 5 additional enchantment slots (assuming you dont use ring glitch), in which case you now have the most optimal character for performing this. Every other race cant possibly match the late game prowess of the Breton as quickly or efficiently. Sure Necklace of Swords and Iron fist are hard to find- but just run the gauntlet that is the Temple of the Ancestor Moths and kill the final guy over and over till you get the drops. OR if you have 50+ Mercantile, go to new sheoth and go to Earil's Mysteries and rng roll until you get them.

Atronach Elves commonly default to Spelldrinker Amulet, Sorcerer's ring, to achieve their reflect damage- taking up their valuable necklace slot making reflect damage much tricker- as you will most likely need to utilize Transcendent sigil stones on clothing slots to free your neck for the necklace in such a case- resulting in more work (assuming you dont just dupe the sigil stones but i digress)

But optimalization aside- Bretons despite lacking early stats in key areas- easily can become whatever you need them to be. My latest character a Mage archer- utilizes archery as their main offense, i chose female for the bonus to speed, and accepted the absolute crap agility, selected mage because attribute bonus birthsigns are short term benefits and shouldnt be prioritized over the longterm benefit of free magic. I am now level 16 and have maximized my agility through efficient leveling AND my speed, It takes more work- but instead of being lazy and picking a lousy wood elf for short term gains and a power that stops working by the time you hit level 10, i stuck with it and now have a much better character for my mid to late game.

and most importantly- Bretons are one of the easiest races to make look decent with oblivion potato heads

I dont like the Modded faces on the nexus... they look worse imo. Thank you for listening to my tedtalk.

[Heimdall313]

Breton + Mundane Ring is boring though and low initial Endurance reduces your long term HP. Not that it matters when you hit magic and melee immunity but why bother playing at that point, you can get 100% Chameleon gear in less slots and also be untouchable.
Redguards have a stupidly broken greater power, Orcs have 25% magic resist and a stupidly useless greater power, etc.

This is why I try to rebalance the races and birthsigns, because yeah you can just Breton everything and coinflip Thief or Mage birthsign, Atronach is just for torture and warrior builds with side value of Telekinesis meme spells. But mostly torture.

Drain Speed also breaks the entire game btw, you need to do a little work to unlock Drain Attribute if you're not an Orc. Better than paralyze and nothing is immune, aside from Lich and things that dice roll every spell with Reflect and Absorb.

Also:

BAM 100% reflect damage, now the only things that can harm you are gravity, and arrows, meaning most things cant even touch your now godly character.

Go swim in Oblivion :P

[Shikabane屍]

Publicado originalmente por Heimdall313:

Breton + Mundane Ring is boring though and low initial Endurance reduces your long term HP. Not that it matters when you hit magic and melee immunity but why bother playing at that point, you can get 100% Chameleon gear in less slots and also be untouchable.
Redguards have a stupidly broken greater power, Orcs have 25% magic resist and a stupidly useless greater power, etc.

This is why I try to rebalance the races and birthsigns, because yeah you can just Breton everything and coinflip Thief or Mage birthsign, Atronach is just for torture and warrior builds with side value of Telekinesis meme spells. But mostly torture.

Drain Speed also breaks the entire game btw, you need to do a little work to unlock Drain Attribute if you're not an Orc. Better than paralyze and nothing is immune, aside from Lich and things that dice roll every spell with Reflect and Absorb.

Also:

BAM 100% reflect damage, now the only things that can harm you are gravity, and arrows, meaning most things cant even touch your now godly character.

Go swim in Oblivion :P

Drain Attribute is fine and dandy but its not neccessary and ultimately irrelevant to the topic of discussion. Also your correct i forgot about drowning (probably because you can just get the ring outside the imperial city at level 1 and never worry about it again) but i digress.

I dont rebalance things or play with mods that alter gameplay simply because my satisfaction in the game comes from breaking it. I love speedrunning the tutorial with no-clip glitches and creating a god character the moment i hit level 25.

Doing ring duplication to obtain 10000+ Magicka, and make ridiculous magic- thats the fun of the game for me-"

As for low initial endurance- that is completely irrelevant- a good player is not going to die that often and the few times i do die its to early paralysis cheese because a dremora spawned the god claymore with the paralysis enchant or something of that nature- Unless im doing a hardest difficulty playthrough but at that point distance is your friend and you'll rush for god spells 9/10 times or atleast learn to exploit the A.I. to avoid damage

However i disagree about the atronach- it IS one of the most popular ways to play for a reason- and is utterly broken since alchemy can be rushed from level 5 to 100 in about one irl hour and you can make busted potions that negate it entirely. (or be a pleb and duplicate the welkynd stones)

The point of this was to state the fact that without modifications to the game- Bretons are- INFACT the best race, a point which you didnt refute, outside of the mediocre Adrenaline Rush power Redguards possess, a power that benefits melee which is the REAL torture way to play this game anyhow given how tedious it is- even with super poisons melee drags- and i always default back to magic when playing them because the downsides of a traditional 'knight' build are so numerous, maintaining armor is tedious and armor in general slows you down and melee combat isnt satisfying like a long range shot with enchanted bow + Enchanted Arrows + Super poison, or just god spells.

[Lobo de hielo]

If you are just into magic etc then yes the Breton is a great race to choose, I prefer Altmer for the starting challenge (who wants a game so boring there is no challenge). Plus, like me you have played for so many hours you know where to pick up the best of everything.
Also with Oblivion you can create any race OP'ed if you know the game and mechanics well enough. And it sounds like you do.

[theo]

Since Oblivion is not a competitive game, and finding meta isn't too hard considering it's 15 years old...
Playing an overpowered character is equal to reducing difficulty slider

[Shikabane屍]

Still no arguments that im wrong regardless, no one seems to understand that the point of the post is that Bretons are infact the superior race compared to any others. So far no arguments- just copium

[Lobo de hielo]

Publicado originalmente por Not-A-Cat!:

Still no arguments that im wrong regardless, no one seems to understand that the point of the post is that Bretons are infact the superior race compared to any others. So far no arguments- just copium

Well actually there is a case to say a female Orc + Atronach is much better. 25% resist magicka and starts with much better endurance. Also what does resist magicka actually do? It does not resist Fire Damage, Frost Damage, Shock Damage, or Poison. It does not protect against Paralyze, it does not protect against physical/ melee. It protects against drain and absorb spells also against damage attribute spells. So in fact its not that big of a deal.
How about that for starters.

[Heimdall313]

Publicado originalmente por slayor3000:

Publicado originalmente por Not-A-Cat!:

Still no arguments that im wrong regardless, no one seems to understand that the point of the post is that Bretons are infact the superior race compared to any others. So far no arguments- just copium

Well actually there is a case to say a female Orc + Atronach is much better. 25% resist magicka and starts with much better endurance. Also what does resist magicka actually do? It does not resist Fire Damage, Frost Damage, Shock Damage, or Poison. It does not protect against Paralyze, it does not protect against physical/ melee. It protects against drain and absorb spells also against damage attribute spells. So in fact its not that big of a deal.
How about that for starters.

Resist Magic reduces magnitude of *all* magic damage effects, including things like Fire damage (NPCs don't use Fire damage poisons). For effects with no Magnitude (like silence or paralyze) it reduces Duration. At 100% Magic Resist you are totally unharmed by the sentry towers in Oblivion that shoot fairly strong Fireball spells at you, for example.

That's also why Apprentice Birthsign will get you demolished by a Scamp for example, which uses Fire damage.

No OP, I'm not arguing that Bretons are not the "Most OP" race because they do have the best passive, obviously. If you're just in it to break the game sure, go for it lol.

However, Bretons objectively make the most pathetic wimpers and pain noises when you beat them with a mace. "Eh-hue!"

[Lobo de hielo]

Publicado originalmente por Heimdall313:

Publicado originalmente por slayor3000:

Well actually there is a case to say a female Orc + Atronach is much better. 25% resist magicka and starts with much better endurance. Also what does resist magicka actually do? It does not resist Fire Damage, Frost Damage, Shock Damage, or Poison. It does not protect against Paralyze, it does not protect against physical/ melee. It protects against drain and absorb spells also against damage attribute spells. So in fact its not that big of a deal.
How about that for starters.

Resist Magic reduces magnitude of *all* magic damage effects, including things like Fire damage (NPCs don't use Fire damage poisons). For effects with no Magnitude (like silence or paralyze) it reduces Duration. At 100% Magic Resist you are totally unharmed by the sentry towers in Oblivion that shoot fairly strong Fireball spells at you, for example.

That's also why Apprentice Birthsign will get you demolished by a Scamp for example, which uses Fire damage.

No OP, I'm not arguing that Bretons are not the "Most OP" race because they do have the best passive, obviously. If you're just in it to break the game sure, go for it lol.

However, Bretons objectively make the most pathetic wimpers and pain noises when you beat them with a mace. "Eh-hue!"

My bad, had just been messing around in the Morrowind CS editor and had Morrowind in my head.

[Agarillobob]

OP was talking about what is objectively the best race and they made a point for it
not sure why people come here saying this isnt as good and why play then if it that easy but that was not the point of this post. OP explained why breton is the best and no one brought up why another race is superior and I cant myself I think Breton is the strongest race in this

[Lobo de hielo]

I do not think the OP made the argument objectively, but based on there love of playing what can be an OP'ed build, but playing it for so long and so often, they have forgotten other builds.
Plus the fact they know exactly where to pick up all the bits and pieces/ gear to make it so.
As a pure mage build it is awesome, but lacking in early Destruction.
The Altmer with the Atronach and Mundane ring makes for a great destruction mage.
This game if you know the mechanics and played (almost as many hours as Morrowind (must be close to 10,000 hours), do not like Skyrim that much for some reason) a lot can be very easy to turn any build into an OP'ed build.

Better all round melee fighters - Nord,Orc,Redguard (never liked playing but definitely better at melee than a Breton). Give any of these the Mundane Ring and another piece of equipment with Magic Resist then they are mage (Breton) killers.

Better Battlemages - Nord, Orc. With Mundane Ring, Atronach sign then Willpower is of little use and intelligence is not important compared to other skills. Much better strength, Endurance and starting health. Yet again another pair of mage (Breton)killers.

Archer then a Bosmer is a much better choice with its starting Agility and Speed, also makes for a decent Arcane Archer.

Any race can become "the greatest race" through efficient levelling, that does not make the Breton "the best" race, just the best starting mage.

[Shikabane屍]

Publicado originalmente por slayor3000:

I do not think the OP made the argument objectively, but based on there love of playing what can be an OP'ed build, but playing it for so long and so often, they have forgotten other builds.
Plus the fact they know exactly where to pick up all the bits and pieces/ gear to make it so.
As a pure mage build it is awesome, but lacking in early Destruction.
The Altmer with the Atronach and Mundane ring makes for a great destruction mage.
This game if you know the mechanics and played (almost as many hours as Morrowind (must be close to 10,000 hours), do not like Skyrim that much for some reason) a lot can be very easy to turn any build into an OP'ed build.

Better all round melee fighters - Nord,Orc,Redguard (never liked playing but definitely better at melee than a Breton). Give any of these the Mundane Ring and another piece of equipment with Magic Resist then they are mage (Breton) killers.

Better Battlemages - Nord, Orc. With Mundane Ring, Atronach sign then Willpower is of little use and intelligence is not important compared to other skills. Much better strength, Endurance and starting health. Yet again another pair of mage (Breton)killers.

Archer then a Bosmer is a much better choice with its starting Agility and Speed, also makes for a decent Arcane Archer.

Any race can become "the greatest race" through efficient levelling, that does not make the Breton "the best" race, just the best starting mage.

The examples you made are valid in terms of short term rewards. Which i discredit- to save time lets take your bosmer example. Saying 'A bosmer is a better archer than a breton early on because of inital bonuses to Agility and Speed' is an incredibly narrowminded view. Sure you have some initial numbers but at the cost of an ability that stops working once you hit any decent level, no inherent 50% magic resistance or extra magic in general? You're inherently handicapping your late game for some short term benefits, instead of taking that archer for a little extra damage early on instead take a breton for the better late game scenario and simply specialize in agility (which equates to bow damage) and simply level it up a little more than the bosmer to achieve the same end game result as the bosmer but with better abilities.

The reason i say the breton is the best race is because out of every race- they in my opinion are the only one who's natural race abilities stay relevant that far into the late game.

an Altmer with an Atronach is fine sure- but you need to use more enchantment slots to get your 100% spell absorbtion (which is mandatory for an atronach built) but that doesnt negate reflected spell damage like resist magic, which if you reach end game you will fight ALOT of liches which commonly do so- meaning you'll likely want that 100% resist magic effect. Sure you could just do vaermina's staff exploit to get the Grey Aegis but lets assume you're not using glitches- thats alot harder to pull off and you'll have less free slots than a breton who could do the same exact build but only need the mundane ring, spelldrinker amulet, and Sorcerer's ring.

or if you still want 100% reflect damage simply get some transcendent sigil stones with spell absorbtion through save scumming and apply it to a shirt/pant/boot etc. You'll be a better character in the LONG TERM-

Nords Redguards and Orcs have some... varying qualities of bonuses- with the best being the redguard, which not only in my opinion look the best of any race, but have Adrenaline Rush which is a good power into the mid-game but you're still working harder to achieve the most optimal late game builds- you're using MORE enchantment slots, you're having to makeup for the short term success your warrior character chose as a redguard now- instead of struggling a little more in the early game as a breton (where the game is overall easier anyways) for a better payoff.

Sure, any race can be made OP, but my point is Bretons do it the most efficiently with the least amount of wasted enchantment slots. I have played Warrior and Assassin characters as a breton- its not about making one op build its the fact that by the time i reach endgame regardless of perfered DPS. My Breton Warrior with 100 Strength 100 Blade will deal just as much damage as my Redguard Warrior with 100 Strength and 100 Blade, but the Breton will have 50% magic resistance and 50 more magic, and the redguard will have an ability which will basically only fortify your health and speed, because anything above 100 in blade and stregnth doesnt equal more damage.

Its all about late game and planning ahead.

[Lobo de hielo]

Point 1 you made about Bosmer.
Well 1 ring and they are good, so, how many levels does it take for a Breton to gain what a Bosmer has to begin with? and while the Breton is trying to gain them levels it will never catch up. Every builds abilities die at 100 in a stat.
Having so much magic resist is nice, but 1 ring, 1 ring is all you need. 100% magic resist is overated.
Why you go on about far late game and "end game"?

A break for a second: Had this game the first week it came out. Totally disappointed, hated the graphics. Grew to love it. It became far to easy to beat though. Thankfully Oblivion has 2 of the best ever mods made for Elder Scrolls, OOO and MOO. I play with one or the other, once with both, which now I have downloaded all the updates for OOO I plan to do again.

Who cares about an enchantment slot or two, or why does a Breton need 100 in any stat. Any build can end up with 100 in every stat and be just as generic as another build.
A Bretons 50% magic resist is the equivalent of 1 ring and they start with awful stats.

Late game planning ahead?
I know a lot of people go on about beating this game at level 6 or 7 etc. I never have. The lowest was a level 12 and it was not a Breton.
If you know this game so well, what the heck is planning ahead about?
Take a Breton and see how early you can beat the game with such lowly starting stats and health.

You think I have a narrow minded view, I actually think you have a blinkered view because of your love and constant use of a Breton to the point of obsession. I can actually see a way too make any race as good.
No race is any better than another, it is just "planning ahead".
I guess we will never agree. Which is good, the world should be full of differing opinions.

[Shikabane屍]

I find it bizarre how your entire post you didnt actually discredit any of my arguments- you didnt properly counter them and just said 'nah their stats are bad' as if that matters since you should be properly leveling anyways- and 1-2 enchantment slots can matter alot- thats the difference between maybe ending up 100% immune to poison, or having a water breathing enchant, or 100% disease immunity etc etc, further pushing your character into godhood.

i dont mod the game outside of a simple userinterface mod, i play vanilla because well thats whats fun for me. You do you man- but ultimately im still waiting for any other argument besides 'starting stats are bad' when that is statistically incorrect since every race is balanced in terms of starting stats.

You do you man.

[Lobo de hielo]

Okay so you cannot decipher or work out what I am saying, that is fine, but I am not going to write a thesis about this. So lets try to make it easy for you.
You seem to like to play to high levels before attempting to beat this game, so this should be easy.

Each race has the same amount of starting attribute points, just distributed differently. Correct?
So with efficient levelling (not counting luck), every race is totally generic somewhere in the high 20's or low 30's (cannot be bothered doing the math this time).
The only difference then being what they started with as traits, one of the Bretons being 50% magic resist (1 ring).
Does a Breton have Adrenaline Rush? 75% resist poison or disease? How many rings to cover them traits?

So as you can see every race is generically exactly the same apart from minor differences which are easily mitigated by ingame jewelry/ enchantments. If you play vanilla and to high levels choose any race and level efficiently. Some are hard to start but get better, some are easy to start and level off. They all end up the same by a certain level.

Now was that easier to understand.
You do you man. I do me - logic and figures always out. or do you prefer - statistics, statistics and more bull s.h.i.t.
So play your game and enjoy it.

[Shikabane屍]

20 or 30? i dont play at those levels. i always just max out my level asap for the biggest challenge and simultaneously best quest rewards/dungeon loot, usually around 40-42 but numbers can vary

and of course i level optimally as you should be doing- so naturally you bum rush endurance first- crank the difficulty to lowest block mudcrabs, when you run out of mudcrabs or its too slow get amulet of dissintegration for armorer, simultaneously maxing out Intelligence and willpower with obvious magic to get it out of the way.

right out of the sewer i max out alchemy and sneak within 5 hours of gametime unless im playing an archer in which case i save the sneak to aid in agility leveling.

Strength is the opposite of endurance, max out difficulty and go kill crabs OR ideally head to peryite's shrine with tons of iron weapons from shops and train over and over again (this can also double as armorer training)

once you're level 40 you bum rush your late game equipment, Mundane ring is easy and like you so kindly keep pointing out (gives you the breton magic resistance) but what you keep NEGLECTING TO MENTION is that with bretons that maxes you out- 100% magic resistance as soon as you kill Raven Camoran in the imperial city sewers, okay thats done lets beeline temple of ancestor moths with a chameleon 100% custom spell from frostcrag spire.

a few hours of rng praying on the boss in the final room and bam amulet of swords, ring of iron fist. good job, now you bum rush Jemane quests get the chorrol shield (forgive me i cant spell Eushuteon) and now you have 5 slots available. You can use that to acquire the same bonuses your aformentioned redguard obtain (resist disease/poison) or maybe you want extra speed? extra strength for carryweight? the choice is yours- and they're the only race that can achieve this in the least amount of enchantments.

its like you arent even reading what im saying- by playing optimally (as most experience players will do) you will achieve the best possible character with a breton (100% Magic Resist 100% Reflect Damage) in the least amount of enchantments with minimal effort.

and before you try to argue (what about low level characters or people who dont power to max?) okay in that case the breton is STILL superior because 50% magic resist +mundane ring (obtainable at level 22 btw) equals complete magic immunity and has a GUARANTEED SPAWN, that ring you try to shove in my face to invalidate my argument only makes the breton better- i honestly dont see how you can ignore 100% magic resistance and say '50 is fine on everyone'. It makes 0 sense. And if you hate leveling and want a level 1 character- the BRETON IS STILL THE BEST, because you have 50% magic resistance which is way more useful than any other race's natural bonus (yes even adrenaline rush in my opinion.) You have not proven to me any other race can do these feats with less effort the whole point of this post is to prove that the bretons can indeed become the best character the quickest and easiest- a point you have not refuted, them being able to do this feat is important as it makes them the best race