Do I HAVE to go through EVERY wedge on the persuasion wheel?

[Lokiwolf90]

I only just got the game and I'm already hating this minigame. Why must I COERCE every single person I'm trying to use speechcraft on? Why do I HAVE to use every wedge? Why can't I end the minigame after only using two options? It seems like I never make any progress.

I am STUCK at 45 with this guy, and I don't have any gold to bribe him with. And I don't have magic, nor do I intend to. I'm not playing a mage.

I just tried the persuasion overhaul, and it actually seems WORSE. From what I'm seeing, there's really only one "up to date" persuasion mod (and by up to date, i mean it came out in 2011) which turns persuasion into a dialogue option. But it's not even consistent- sometimes they like a joke, sometimes they hate it. Sometimes boasting impresses them, sometimes it makes them hate you. And I'm not talking about different people either- the same person, in the same conversation. I still end up having to pick all three options.

Who in their right mind thought this persuasion minigame was a good idea?

[Bomb Bloke]

Originally posted by anthony.sherer90:

Why must I COERCE every single person I'm trying to use speechcraft on? Why do I HAVE to use every wedge? Why can't I end the minigame after only using two options?

Because then you'd only click the two positive ones and the puzzle would be pointless.

Remember, two of the options increase disposition, two of them lower it. Which options do what depends on the NPC - for example, coercing is good against some.

Once you've figured out the good / bad segments (simple enough - just keep quickly cycling around the wheel until you've learnt; trying to read the facial expressions is a waste of time), all you need to do is keep on cycling, clicking the two "good" options when they've got larger slices next to them, and the two "bad" options when they've got the smaller slices next to them.

Originally posted by anthony.sherer90:

I am STUCK at 45 with this guy, and I don't have any gold to bribe him with.

Bearing in mind that you can't go higher than your speechcraft allows (even through bribery!), consider getting some enchantments or potions to boost it higher.

You can also draw a weapon before talking to people. This lowers their disposition ten points, allowing you to raise it another ten points through further conversation (as though you had a higher speechcraft score than you actually do). Once you put your weapon away, you lose the "penalty".

[Lokiwolf90]

The puzzle is already pointless though. Why does persuasion have to be puzzle? That destroys roleplaying opportunities. It's almost as bad as that stupid game in Fable 3.

I really don't want to get better at this garbage persuasion wheel- I'd rather just get rid of it entirely, and not even flirt with it like that persuasion overhaul does. To the best of my knowledge, though, there are no mods that completely get rid of the persuasion mechanics as they are in the game.

[Bomb Bloke]

Originally posted by anthony.sherer90:

The puzzle is already pointless though. Why does persuasion have to be puzzle? That destroys roleplaying opportunities. It's almost as bad as that stupid game in Fable 3.

For the same reason the game makes you mash buttons at enemies: the result might be a foregone conclusion, but you otherwise wouldn't be "playing".

Sure the pie system is hardly a popular one, but seriously: it's not difficult.

Originally posted by anthony.sherer90:

I really don't want to get better at this garbage persuasion wheel- I'd rather just get rid of it entirely, and not even flirt with it like that persuasion overhaul does. To the best of my knowledge, though, there are no mods that completely get rid of the persuasion mechanics as they are in the game.

Any character can already entirely bypass the speechcraft system with a simple three second duration Charm 100 spell, so there's not a lot of demand for a mod like that.

If you really don't like the idea of casting, you could always just pretend you're using a minor power instead.

[Qu]

When you finally get the hang of it, you will find that is so easy that it feels like an exploit. The same applies to the lockpicking minigame, which you can only understand by reading a properly well written tutorial on the internet, intead of that bs bethesda throws at you at the beginning of the game. But my point here is that they are actually easy, but annoyingly confusing at the first time.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

I'm not a fan of the design decision either, but I still find it more well-implemented than vanilla Morrowind.

Where Mercantile determines the success rate of Bribing but Bribing raises Speechcraft, and the actual Speechcraft skill is too unreliable even at high skill levels to be anything but actually worthless.

[FaeVortex]

Originally posted by anthony.sherer90:

I only just got the game and I'm already hating this minigame. Why must I COERCE every single person I'm trying to use speechcraft on? Why do I HAVE to use every wedge? Why can't I end the minigame after only using two options? It seems like I never make any progress.

I am STUCK at 45 with this guy, and I don't have any gold to bribe him with. And I don't have magic, nor do I intend to. I'm not playing a mage.

I just tried the persuasion overhaul, and it actually seems WORSE. From what I'm seeing, there's really only one "up to date" persuasion mod (and by up to date, i mean it came out in 2011) which turns persuasion into a dialogue option. But it's not even consistent- sometimes they like a joke, sometimes they hate it. Sometimes boasting impresses them, sometimes it makes them hate you. And I'm not talking about different people either- the same person, in the same conversation. I still end up having to pick all three options.

Who in their right mind thought this persuasion minigame was a good idea?

I don't know why you and others struggle with this, it is ridiculously easy to cheese it. Find the slice that they hate the most, and just make sure that you only click on it when it's only 1/4 of the way filled up with the yellow thing. Don't take any time to click on the different squares and just spam click as fast as you can until you can't do it anymore.

[Johnny Casey]

Persuasion was just a pure luck back in Morrowind. Which is not a surprise, because every other ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ things were based on pure luck as well.

So they thought it needs to be changed. And here in Oblivion, very few things are based on pure luck, and most things are active system that based on player's actual skill, rather than game's own fomula.

And I think it went pretty well. IF ONLY THESE B@STARDS TELL US HOW TO DO IT. Seriously, that's my main complain. They made the systems really well, but they just decided to not to tell us how to mingle with. The game doesn't tell you that you get to hear double-click sound when you hit the lockpick at the right time, and so on.

So, because they don't want to tell us how to mingle the system they made(or they don't know how to tell us), in Skyrim, we get easy to learn, but actually worse than any other previous TES series system.

I call this The degeneration of The Elder Scrolls and made it to a series, so that all Skybabies should aware that the one they play and love is actually the worst of all.

The series is written in Korean though, so I can 't really see them to you guys. Why did I made them with Korean? Because there are tons of Skybabies in South Korea.

[Patriot03]

"trying to read the facial expressions is a waste of time" - What?

That's exactly what I do and I can see instantly what works and what doesn't. Also am I the only gamer who actually appriciates when games have features that aren't explained to you in every minute detail?

Makes it feel like I get to discover it, even if I have to resort to external meta.

[DrNewcenstein]

It's not being handed to them like an EA title, so it sucks.

"It takes me out of my Aggro, I just wanna go RAAAARRR! and not stop for these stoopid Role-Playing portions"

Seriously, you're playing a nameless nobody and whatever you want from people comes at a cost - you either fork over the Gold or convince them to tell you what you want to know.

"Want to buy that run-down shack at the Waterfront? This is the Imperial City, even that dump sits on prime real estate, and we've got enough riff-raff over there already. How do I know you're not another criminal looking for a place to make skooma?"

"Oh, you want to know about the Grey Fox because you heard us beggars are his eyes and ears? I'm not hearing any clinky-clink in my hand, so convince me you're not with the Imperial Legion."

"Want a lower price? Buy lower-priced goods. Unless you can give me a reason to cut you a deal. Want more money for that junk? Sell it to me. I mean, really sell me on it."

Not too different from real life.
"You want to rent a place to live? How do I know you're not looking for a place to run your guns, drugs, hookers, or gambling out of? You bring the cops to my property, the value of my property drops, and I lose money."

"Want a discount on goods and services? Get in good with those who provide goods and services."

[Brandybuck]

Ditto for lockpicking mini-game. It's not roleplaying.

Ditto for combat. I should not have to click on enemies. My character should be able to do everything in combat, because rolepalying means it's my character's skills not my own.

Ditto for magic. Let my character choose what spells to cast and where to aim them.

Ditto for travel. Why the hell am I choosing where my character goes?

TRUE ROLEPLAYING means I sit back and do nothing and watch my character go through the motions.

/sarc

[Lokiwolf90]

My complaint is that it's a stupid minigame with no roleplaying to be seen- no act, just do the same thing with every single person you meet. Just some boring, pointless persuasion wheel. You can't choose what you say to persuade them. You infact don't say anything at all. There are FAR better systems out there, used by older games than this one. Games that capitalize on roleplaying. Brandy, I don't have an issue with the combat, nor the magic- that's fine. I can more or less approach combat in multiple different ways.

[FaeVortex]

Originally posted by anthony.sherer90:

I only just got the game and I'm already hating this minigame. Why must I COERCE every single person I'm trying to use speechcraft on? Why do I HAVE to use every wedge? Why can't I end the minigame after only using two options? It seems like I never make any progress.

I am STUCK at 45 with this guy, and I don't have any gold to bribe him with. And I don't have magic, nor do I intend to. I'm not playing a mage.

I just tried the persuasion overhaul, and it actually seems WORSE. From what I'm seeing, there's really only one "up to date" persuasion mod (and by up to date, i mean it came out in 2011) which turns persuasion into a dialogue option. But it's not even consistent- sometimes they like a joke, sometimes they hate it. Sometimes boasting impresses them, sometimes it makes them hate you. And I'm not talking about different people either- the same person, in the same conversation. I still end up having to pick all three options.

Who in their right mind thought this persuasion minigame was a good idea?

Make a spell that boosts your personality by x100 for one second (or longer but it gets more expensive) and as soon as you start to cast it talk to the person. If the person's disposition towards you is still not maxed out, slip them a few Septims as well.
You don't NEED to do the persuasion wheel.

[Havan_IronOak]

Originally posted by Bomb Bloke:

You can also draw a weapon before talking to people. This lowers their disposition ten points, allowing you to raise it another ten points through further conversation (as though you had a higher speechcraft score than you actually do). Once you put your weapon away, you lose the "penalty".

Played the game for thousands of hours and never caught on to the whole "take out yor weapon/chat em up/put away your weapon" method raising an NPCs attitude.

Great tip.

[Bomb Bloke]

You can actually take it a large step further with a Drain Personality 100 on Self spell.

[FaeVortex]

Originally posted by Patriot03:

"trying to read the facial expressions is a waste of time" - What?

That's exactly what I do and I can see instantly what works and what doesn't. Also am I the only gamer who actually appriciates when games have features that aren't explained to you in every minute detail?

Makes it feel like I get to discover it, even if I have to resort to external meta.

Same here. Plus ♥♥♥♥ is easy enough to figure out on your own most of the time anyway. The only times that isn't true really is with old puzzle and point and click adventure games from the 80's and 90's.
Also Steam does have the game manual that you can read whenever you want, so "they don't tell me" isn't a valid excuse.