Sorcerer, Battlemage, Spellsword, are they good ideas?

[Charlemagne]

When I play magic character I have always gone Mage with robes for maximizing magic power. It is functional, but if they do catch you with a strong melee attack...
Coming back to the game after a while, I was itching to play as one of the classes in the title with magic AND heavy armor, I have never done it because of the penalty. I fear that you might end up as a jack of all trades, master of none. Can one of these types be a powerful choice? I don't mean just when you reach 100 heavy armor level and encumbrance doesn't matter anymore (although even then you can't get rid of -5% magic effect). I mean also in the early and middle game; is it efficient and enjoyable or too much of a challenge to just survive?

[Fire78]

My main problem when trying that is that oblivions heavy armor is just way to heavy so i always end up doing a light armor with a magic sword or go full conjuration if you use heavy armor youg going to need some sort of points in strength or a ring of feather to progress to 100 in heavy armor and that is going to make you weaker in the stats sense if using heavy armor i would never use any weapons unless you want to kill umbra cause weight and i want to maximize destruction and conjuration as soon as possible

[Charlemagne]

Yeah in this game armor weight goes up insanely as it gets better. That's something to consider.

[The Flying Rodent]

You could probably make it work, but you’d probably have to specialise heavily into ‘either’ magic or physical weapons , not both (alongside heavy armour that is). Otherwise, when the teen levels come around and enemy creatures have scaled to the point that they start hurting a lot, you might find that you’re unable to kill them.

Full conjuration + Heavy Armour could work ...

[Charlemagne]

I guess I will go for Battlemage, who is a naked mage but that makes much use of weapons (at least that would be deduced from the major skills of the class). I wonder why they made so many "armored mage" classes (there's also the Nightblade, Crusader), seeing that armor+magic isn't a great idea.

[The Flying Rodent]

It’s more that the enemy-level-scaling aspect of Oblivion becomes punishing for non-specialist characters after a certain point ... which I don’t think was given much thought when considering the classes. The classes were basically just carried over from Morrowind , which didn’t suffer from the same problem.

[Bansheebutt]

Sorcerer is probably my favorite pre-built class. I like to develop Block as a minor, as the class image would indicate. (And it's a lot of fun smacking melee units with the counter-attack before zapping them.)

Originally posted by Charlemagne:

Yeah in this game armor weight goes up insanely as it gets better. That's something to consider.

I mean besides the Skill Perks which give you the natural feather effect with armor, as a Sorcerer/Spellsword you can actually just cast Feather, which simultaneously develops your Alteration.

You also don't *have* to wear a full suit of armor (or immediately jump to the next tier) since you have Ranged and Shield spells.

I usually just go with Boots, Gloves and Greaves. Cuirasses tend to weigh about as much as all those combined with less protection on its own.
If I have a shield, I hotkey it for easy swapping.

Originally posted by The Flying Rodent:

It’s more that the enemy-level-scaling aspect of Oblivion becomes punishing for non-specialist characters after a certain point

It's really only a problem for Fighters. Spells allow you to stack effects and exploit weaknesses (or add them yourself) which gives you far and away more damage potential than non-casters could ever hope for.

Weakness-to-Magic + a good Destruction Staff can overcome any statistical deficit.

[Charlemagne]

Originally posted by Bansheebot:

You also don't *have* to wear a full suit of armor (or immediately jump to the next tier) since you have Ranged and Shield spells.

I usually just go with Boots, Gloves and Greaves. Cuirasses tend to weigh about as much as all those combined with less protection on its own.
If I have a shield, I hotkey it for easy swapping.

I was coincidentally just thinking of this. You don't *have* to upgrade to higher tier armors (daedric etc.). A steel or dwarven can still give you decent protection even later in the game while not weighing as much, and looking better. Since your power will rely in a big part on your magic, you don't need to have the latest tank armor as a warrior would. Also, I was thinking that if I used armor I would dispense with the helmet at least as even armored mages seem to prefer a hood, or nothing. I recall some armored mages you meet during the mage guild quest in Anvil, and also the pictures of the classes. Hadn't thought of the cuirass though- something to consider.

[Bansheebutt]

Robes + Boots and Gauntlets also work to get some protection without sacrificing much speed and keeping the Magic-user look,

I always stuck with hoods or even nothing as well, even on fighters unless I really need the armor/enchantment. Mainly because Oblivion's helmets are some of the goofiest looking in gaming.

[Count Von Count]

On Xbox I used to put a good mix of reflect damage/spell enchantment on my robes, hood, Leather Boots and Gloves.

Although realistically that’s pretty cheesy, and I can’t seem to do it anymore on PC...

[Darth Cannabis]

Originally posted by Charlemagne:

I guess I will go for Battlemage, who is a naked mage but that makes much use of weapons (at least that would be deduced from the major skills of the class). I wonder why they made so many "armored mage" classes (there's also the Nightblade, Crusader), seeing that armor+magic isn't a great idea.

This is definitely a thing.

Details from the uesp: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Magic_Overview#Using_Armor

Note the part about shield use, with a fists, a 2 handed weapon, or bow. If you note on the illustration of sorcerer, this is definitely the idea. Not wearing heavy armor, but not using any weapon (fists) and hiding behind a heavy shield. Now this may not play out exactly that way in game, but you can get the shield bonuses, without armor penalty, if you do it right. You just won't be able to block with the actual shield when that weapon or fists are out.

For me I tend to view it as: (edit of details of specifically named classes).

Sorcerer, heavy shield, and maybe 1 piece of heavy armor max, but it a rather minimal use of the heavy armor, while focused on spell for minimal penalty. Works well low level to high.

Battlemage is the struggle early and the one that uses the heavy armor. May be a bit of a struggle casting early, but keep in mind, with conjuring as a major skill, you can conjure your own. Helps keep inventory light, while developing all your combat skills, rather than carrying both blunt and blade weapons. Long term, the penalties fall off and its fine.

Nightblade, I think they made a bit of a mistake. Looking at the 3 spell schools, I suggest replace destruction with illusion. Its just makes it more practical of a class, more stealthy, but using illusion instead of stealth, alteration instead of lock picking, and the 3rd spell school to heal or buff self. This one change, makes all the difference (and helps efficient leveling by not having 3 majors willpower). It just fits the actual description better.

Crusader much the same thing, but not so much seems a mistake as just my preference. In this case I suggest replacing the destruction with alteration, making it somewhat more of a paladin. Using the alteration to armor or element buff (mainly npcs you may fight alongside, namely a certain dunmer on one quest), and the restoration. A predominantly combat class, with only some support magic. *additional note (if you want to go full Paladin as a custom class using this template, choose another skill to replace with conjuration, for serious use of turn undead.)

[Charlemagne]

The way I see the standard magic classes is as a spectrum of decreasing magic use and increasing weapon/armor use:
Mage- Use magic for everything, no armor at all, carry a dagger or short sword for last ditch defense.
Battlemage- The picture of the card is deceiving, the battlemage doesn't wear armor or shouldn't, since it doesn't have an armor skill. They are basically mages, but which use weapons a lot unlike the mage. So they are a tad less magical.
Sorcerer- The sorcerer is the contrary of the battlemage, basically a mage, but who relies on heavy armor for protection. Doesn't make much use of weapons (no skills for that). Just magic, but tanky. Also a tad less magical than the mage, with the added handicap of armor reducing spell effectiveness.
Spellsword- A hybrid fighter/magic user who tries to make use of everything, armor, weapons and magic. Might be interesting, might be powerful, also might end up being really good at nothing.
Crusader- A more strongly fighter-inclined hybrid, like a reversed battlemage. Basically a warrior who supplements with some magic.
There are two other classes that are considerably magical, the Nightblade and the Witchhunter. The first is essentially a light spellsword who uses blade, light armor and magic. They try to portray it as a sinister shadowy figure, but lacking sneak and illusion doesn't really fit with that. The witch hunter is a light battlemage, no armor but instead of melee weapons he uses a bow. He might be considered as a magic user/thief and overall seems pretty weak. The bow won't help you when you run out of magic and are cornered without armor. Nobody seems to ever discuss witch hunter as an interesting class...
Other classes that have one magic skill (usually illusion) as a supplement can't be considered magical.

[Darth Cannabis]

Well a witch hunter should never run out of magicka. Alchemy is a major skill that should make that a non factor. It also should help avoid ever being cornered. What self respecting alchemist, doesn't have a few potions with invisibility effects, or magicka boosts or regen if alchemy using mage? Also with conjuration, if ever in that situation, that one has all the tools to avoid entirely, you can conjure armor, combine it with that alchemy (some fortification tonics to make you a short term tank), as an alternative option, while you unleash some destruction.

[Charlemagne]

Originally posted by Darth Cannabis:

Well a witch hunter should never run out of magicka. Alchemy is a major skill that should make that a non factor. It also should help avoid ever being cornered. What self respecting alchemist, doesn't have a few potions with invisibility effects, or magicka boosts or regen if alchemy using mage? Also with conjuration, if ever in that situation, that one has all the tools to avoid entirely, you can conjure armor, combine it with that alchemy (some fortification tonics to make you a short term tank), as an alternative option, while you unleash some destruction.

But a Mage would do all that, better.

[Darth Cannabis]

Originally posted by Charlemagne:

Originally posted by Darth Cannabis:

Well a witch hunter should never run out of magicka. Alchemy is a major skill that should make that a non factor. It also should help avoid ever being cornered. What self respecting alchemist, doesn't have a few potions with invisibility effects, or magicka boosts or regen if alchemy using mage? Also with conjuration, if ever in that situation, that one has all the tools to avoid entirely, you can conjure armor, combine it with that alchemy (some fortification tonics to make you a short term tank), as an alternative option, while you unleash some destruction.

But a Mage would do all that, better.

Oh I agree, a true mage when all is said and done, is basically god mode. You can mimic a warrior, thru skill increase spells, conjuration, restoration buffs, and slaughter anything that way. You can control the battlefield with illusion and debuff effects. You can turn enemies against each other, kill anything with super over powered spells after buffing magicka and popping a welkyld stone before hand, hide while laughing at the chaos, and run at super speed.

Back to battlemage, I want to bring up the picture itself.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:OB-class-Battlemage.jpg

Note, that on closer observation, it actually does not appear to be a heavy armor, could even be clothing aside from cuirass. Its not actually the portrait that is deceiving. It does however show lots of weapons, and a weapon focus along with conjuration, is where armor (regardless of light or heavy, but most conjured will be heavy) comes into play. That is what I was getting at, they tend to build armor skills thru conjuring.

Nah the misconception, is due to the Imperial Battlemages in game.

[Bansheebutt]

I think the developer intent is that you would still use some minor skills. After all, you still get development bonuses to non-Major skills based on your Primary Attributes and class specialization. (Though the Battlemage doesn't have any armor skills that fall under its attributes.)

FTR, the Battlemage in Morrowind used heavy armor, as a Major no less.

Originally posted by Darth Cannabis:

Note, that on closer observation, it actually does not appear to be a heavy armor, could even be clothing aside from cuirass.

I always figured it was Light Armor, which would've made sense as there's only one pre-built Magic user with Light Armor as a skill but dozens of heavy armored ones. And that ones presented as a stealth hybrid.

Honestly if we go from the perspective that you're supposed to only use your Class's majors, Conjuration should have been replaced with LA, since summoning (creatures at least) seems antithetical to the intended playstyle.