What is the best way to fix Oblivion's Leveling system in 2019?

[Lonewolf2797]

I'm currently torn between a few different leveling mods.
- +5 All Attribute Modifiers
- Galerion Natural Leveling Revised
- Realistic Leveling

I like them all for different reasons. With +5 Al Attribute Modifiers, it's a simple mod that is as close to the Vanilla game as possible, except without all the micromanaging of efficient leveling. However, I fear that my character may become too overpowered from getting such high bonuses each level.

Galerion would be my second choice, and seems to be the favorite of a lot of people, but I'm curious as to how over or under powered a late game character would look like with this system in place. Also, I can't seem to get the console commands for customizing it to work, but that's not a deal breaker because it seems pretty well balanced the way it is.

Realistic Leveling also seems to be used by a ton of people who swear by it and I'm curious as to why anyone would pick that over Galerion or just having +5 to all attributes. It seems a bit too complicated for my liking but I could be persuaded either way.

I'd just like to hear the thoughts of people who have used these mods long term and what the outcome will look like on a play through late game. Thanks, cheers!

[arottweiler]

No issues from my end.

[Johnny Casey]

Forever stuck at level 1 w/ all the Daedric quest unleveled is the one and only way.

[Annysimmers]

I used realistic leveling and +5. After playing either or for years I didn't much like them anymore. So I just put my non main skills as my main too slow the leveling. I do know that +5 will over power you pretty soon.

[Leeux]

Instead of using a character leveling you could just use a world leveling overhaul... that would solve the problem too... most of the world leveling overhails don't require altering the character leveling, since they "fix" the vanilla problems in their own ways.

As for the character leveling mods you've listed, the +5 attr one is the simplest and risk free way, but it works best if you avoid leveling up too much... i.e. up to ~L15 at most or so... past that you'd become a bit overpowered IMO, unless you consciously restrain/sabotage yourself on some level ups (like, f.e., adding points to a stat that is of no use to your combat skills every so and so levels...)

EDIT: Ofc. you could instead use the +3 version (instead of the +5 one) and that would average up to a normal leveled up character, even if it would be a tad slightly less efficient at the start.

I've used RL myself in the past, and I liked it... but I remember having some problems at some point, but sadly I don't remember the specifics... what I remember is it just stopped working and had to clean reinstall it.

These days, I've settled on the combination of Oscuro's and/or Maskar's (world leveling) + nGCD (character leveling.)

Keep in mind that if you don't use a world overhaul even if you'll not be eventually underpowered as in vanilla Oblivion, you'll still have to deal with common bandits in daedric gear by L18 or so.

[K1LN1K]

Just get the +5 multiplier mod that just gives you the +5 modifier for raising even 1 skill governed by desired attribute. Eliminates a lot of tedium and just allows you to enjoy the game for what it is.

[JamesWhisky]

There is no problem in leveling in oblivion. You just dont understand how to level up. That is all.

[arottweiler]

I've never used any of those mods and it would take the challenge and fun out of the game if I didn't have to get the +5 the hard way. I have to put in the hard slog and time it takes to earn +5 to be able to enjoy the game later on when I can look back on the effort I've put in to get there. It's especially important because when I play Oblivion the campaign can last for years as I'm always adding quest mods to keep me busy. Once I've completed the main quest I lose interest so instead I do other things while the main quest is in progress. My last game started in 2011 and only ended when my PC died in January this year. I still had Light The Dragonfires in progress so Martin was still hanging out at Cloud Ruler Temple.

There are a lot of ways you can make life easier when getting the +5 +5 +5 before every level up. The lid of a Bic pen is invaluable as the shape of it fits perfectly between the keys of my keyboard so I can use it to jam the cast key and make it easier to skill up the magic disciplines. You can also do this with the block key. Using summons to fight against can increase other skills and I always visit a trainer at the start of every level. I've realised now that I should visit the trainer last because that will make life easier getting the initial five skill increases. Getting them after I have visited a trainer will result in more time because a skill increase takes longer the more skilled you are but I always do it first because otherwise I will forget to do it. I need to make some Oblivion checklists on paper.

There is a UESP page about Skill Books and this is handy for finding them all. There are 5/6 for every skill so they can come in useful to speed up the skill increases. Some involve tresspassing and theft but if you're sneaky you can avoid a bounty.

You can increase sneak just by sneaking next to someone sleeping. Armorour is an important skill to get to journeyman as early as possible because then you can repair your own magical gear. I train this up quickly by going through Sundercliff Watch at least once every level. It's a vast dungeon with about 50 humanoid enemies and several boss chests so by the end of it you have a lot of gear to repair. This needs extra storage like the Bag Of Holding or Midas Chest but it means you can get your armour skill up to 50 within a few levels and you're then much more self sufficient and prepared for longer quests.

You can get creative working out how to increase multiple skills at once. I summoned a permanent skeleton and attacked it so it turned hostile and this increases light armour/heavy armour (if you're wearing both kinds then both skills will increase. Slower than just wearing one kind of armour but the both increase)

Jam the block key against a hostile summon to make training it easier. Use a weak summon like the skeleton so you take the least damage and eventually their attack will have no effect so you could block indefinitely. I train like this but I don't go overboard and leave it while I go shopping. I just get a few skill increases at a time and use it to train blade and destruction.

The only skill I find tedious to increase is mercantile so I dump everything at my shop in Chorral which is added by the Trade And Commerce mod and just use trainers to increase it.

[JamesWhisky]

Originally posted by arottweiler:

I've never used any of those mods and it would take the challenge and fun out of the game if I didn't have to get the +5 the hard way. I have to put in the hard slog and time it takes to earn +5 to be able to enjoy the game later on when I can look back on the effort I've put in to get there. It's especially important because when I play Oblivion the campaign can last for years as I'm always adding quest mods to keep me busy. Once I've completed the main quest I lose interest so instead I do other things while the main quest is in progress. My last game started in 2011 and only ended when my PC died in January this year. I still had Light The Dragonfires in progress so Martin was still hanging out at Cloud Ruler Temple.

There are a lot of ways you can make life easier when getting the +5 +5 +5 before every level up. The lid of a Bic pen is invaluable as the shape of it fits perfectly between the keys of my keyboard so I can use it to jam the cast key and make it easier to skill up the magic disciplines. You can also do this with the block key. Using summons to fight against can increase other skills and I always visit a trainer at the start of every level. I've realised now that I should visit the trainer last because that will make life easier getting the initial five skill increases. Getting them after I have visited a trainer will result in more time because a skill increase takes longer the more skilled you are but I always do it first because otherwise I will forget to do it. I need to make some Oblivion checklists on paper.

There is a UESP page about Skill Books and this is handy for finding them all. There are 5/6 for every skill so they can come in useful to speed up the skill increases. Some involve tresspassing and theft but if you're sneaky you can avoid a bounty.

You can increase sneak just by sneaking next to someone sleeping. Armorour is an important skill to get to journeyman as early as possible because then you can repair your own magical gear. I train this up quickly by going through Sundercliff Watch at least once every level. It's a vast dungeon with about 50 humanoid enemies and several boss chests so by the end of it you have a lot of gear to repair. This needs extra storage like the Bag Of Holding or Midas Chest but it means you can get your armour skill up to 50 within a few levels and you're then much more self sufficient and prepared for longer quests.

You can get creative working out how to increase multiple skills at once. I summoned a permanent skeleton and attacked it so it turned hostile and this increases light armour/heavy armour (if you're wearing both kinds then both skills will increase. Slower than just wearing one kind of armour but the both increase)

Jam the block key against a hostile summon to make training it easier. Use a weak summon like the skeleton so you take the least damage and eventually their attack will have no effect so you could block indefinitely. I train like this but I don't go overboard and leave it while I go shopping. I just get a few skill increases at a time and use it to train blade and destruction.

The only skill I find tedious to increase is mercantile so I dump everything at my shop in Chorral which is added by the Trade And Commerce mod and just use trainers to increase it.

You mean that you dont wanna work and progress your character in system that more you train one thing the stronger in the thing you become? Why are you playin the game then? This lvl system is awesome. Like to get +5 in agi you need to train 10 times in agility made disciplines which makes sneakin and so on. That is why most of the time the disciplines you get your main should be the major but minor skills due to fact that then you can train more in these disciplines. The concept is realistic and makes sense. It s like in real world. You practice somethin you get better in it. Nothin wrong with that.

[Ins]

Originally posted by JamesWhisky:

Originally posted by arottweiler:

I've never used any of those mods and it would take the challenge and fun out of the game if I didn't have to get the +5 the hard way. I have to put in the hard slog and time it takes to earn +5 to be able to enjoy the game later on when I can look back on the effort I've put in to get there. It's especially important because when I play Oblivion the campaign can last for years as I'm always adding quest mods to keep me busy. Once I've completed the main quest I lose interest so instead I do other things while the main quest is in progress. My last game started in 2011 and only ended when my PC died in January this year. I still had Light The Dragonfires in progress so Martin was still hanging out at Cloud Ruler Temple.

There are a lot of ways you can make life easier when getting the +5 +5 +5 before every level up. The lid of a Bic pen is invaluable as the shape of it fits perfectly between the keys of my keyboard so I can use it to jam the cast key and make it easier to skill up the magic disciplines. You can also do this with the block key. Using summons to fight against can increase other skills and I always visit a trainer at the start of every level. I've realised now that I should visit the trainer last because that will make life easier getting the initial five skill increases. Getting them after I have visited a trainer will result in more time because a skill increase takes longer the more skilled you are but I always do it first because otherwise I will forget to do it. I need to make some Oblivion checklists on paper.

There is a UESP page about Skill Books and this is handy for finding them all. There are 5/6 for every skill so they can come in useful to speed up the skill increases. Some involve tresspassing and theft but if you're sneaky you can avoid a bounty.

You can increase sneak just by sneaking next to someone sleeping. Armorour is an important skill to get to journeyman as early as possible because then you can repair your own magical gear. I train this up quickly by going through Sundercliff Watch at least once every level. It's a vast dungeon with about 50 humanoid enemies and several boss chests so by the end of it you have a lot of gear to repair. This needs extra storage like the Bag Of Holding or Midas Chest but it means you can get your armour skill up to 50 within a few levels and you're then much more self sufficient and prepared for longer quests.

You can get creative working out how to increase multiple skills at once. I summoned a permanent skeleton and attacked it so it turned hostile and this increases light armour/heavy armour (if you're wearing both kinds then both skills will increase. Slower than just wearing one kind of armour but the both increase)

Jam the block key against a hostile summon to make training it easier. Use a weak summon like the skeleton so you take the least damage and eventually their attack will have no effect so you could block indefinitely. I train like this but I don't go overboard and leave it while I go shopping. I just get a few skill increases at a time and use it to train blade and destruction.

The only skill I find tedious to increase is mercantile so I dump everything at my shop in Chorral which is added by the Trade And Commerce mod and just use trainers to increase it.

You mean that you dont wanna work and progress your character in system that more you train one thing the stronger in the thing you become? Why are you playin the game then? This lvl system is awesome. Like to get +5 in agi you need to train 10 times in agility made disciplines which makes sneakin and so on. That is why most of the time the disciplines you get your main should be the major but minor skills due to fact that then you can train more in these disciplines. The concept is realistic and makes sense. It s like in real world. You practice somethin you get better in it. Nothin wrong with that.

except focusing on only 1 aspect is boring as ♥♥♥♥.

[arottweiler]

Originally posted by JamesWhisky:

You mean that you dont wanna work and progress your character in system that more you train one thing the stronger in the thing you become? Why are you playin the game then? This lvl system is awesome. Like to get +5 in agi you need to train 10 times in agility made disciplines which makes sneakin and so on. That is why most of the time the disciplines you get your main should be the major but minor skills due to fact that then you can train more in these disciplines. The concept is realistic and makes sense. It s like in real world. You practice somethin you get better in it. Nothin wrong with that.

I'm not sure why you have quoted my post because what you are saying is exactly the point I was making. The levelling system works and doesn't need to be modded. It just takes some people, myself included a while to get their head around it. Using mods to speed up the skill increases or attribute increases takes fun out of the early game. It's no different to using the duplicate glitch to get rich quick.

Having said that I also think once you have played a game at least once the way it's meant to be played you are then free to re-play it any way you like.

[JamesWhisky]

Originally posted by Ins:

Originally posted by JamesWhisky:

You mean that you dont wanna work and progress your character in system that more you train one thing the stronger in the thing you become? Why are you playin the game then? This lvl system is awesome. Like to get +5 in agi you need to train 10 times in agility made disciplines which makes sneakin and so on. That is why most of the time the disciplines you get your main should be the major but minor skills due to fact that then you can train more in these disciplines. The concept is realistic and makes sense. It s like in real world. You practice somethin you get better in it. Nothin wrong with that.

except focusing on only 1 aspect is boring as ♥♥♥♥.

Aha okay. Dude why are you even play the game? That blows my mind so hard. The lvlin system is top notch. It s hard, you need use your brain, and it s very revarding.

[Ins]

Originally posted by JamesWhisky:

Originally posted by Ins:

except focusing on only 1 aspect is boring as ♥♥♥♥.

Aha okay. Dude why are you even play the game? That blows my mind so hard. The lvlin system is top notch. It s hard, you need use your brain, and it s very revarding.

Is the entire game just about min-maxing a pigeonholed character for you?

I enjoy everything the game has to offer, how is that mind blowing? Honestly I feel like the question applies more to you than it does to me.

[lammy from um jammer lammy]

people saying that vanilla oblivion has good levelling is true proof that humanity is lost.

[Ubeogesh]

I think combination of these 3 mods should do the trick:
- Leveling Quick Fix. 15 or 20 skills to advance a level instead of 10 - therefore you will naturally get more attribute bonuses AND will have higher major skill levels (hence you are stronger at your class abilities) AND keep the fun of picking attributes on level up.
Also has some simple leveled list changes so there are less "glass armor bandits" and cool loot is a bit more rare.
https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/38941
- AV Uncapper: since with 15 or 20 skills per level your max character level will become much lower, need to allow for higher than 100 major skill levels to overcome that
https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/34841
- Fundament. Tweak skill advancement rates (e.g. mercantile based on monetary amount rather than transaction count, melee based on damage dealt instead of attack count, spells based on mana spent etc.)
https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/41005

[Ubeogesh]

To everyone who says that oblivion leveling system isn't broken:
I get that it's a great challenge to min max this system and it's rewarding to overcome it.
But at the same time it is stupid that it incentivizes the player to not level up, and it introduces too much grind (1) and micromanagement (2). It is also not a good leveling system when it encourages you to not level up.
E.g. I wanna play a standard mage class from the template classes... I use all the schools of magic, and I basically will level up really fast, my skills and stats will be very low on high character level, and my character will be very weak relatively to the leveled world. But if I stick some out-of-character major skills into my class that I won't use, my leveling up will slow down and I will naturally get more stats and more skills therefore be stronger when I level up.
Therefore a "specialized" class is weaker than "jack-of-all-trades" which is backwards of how it should be.

footnote 1:
I do like grindy games. My most played game is Diablo 2, which is grindy in essence. But it has an exciting interactive grind loop where you kill random monsters on random maps and identify random loot; Oblivion's grind is "hold a key until your skill levels up", which couldn't be more boring.
footnote 2:
I do like micromanagement when it fits in the game... like Starcraft you micromanage your units to optimize their health pools, scout, etc; or for example in Dota 2 you micro-manage summoned\dominated creatures to stack camps and do all kinds of good stuff. But in Oblivion the character skill micromanagement gets in the way of actually playing the game and greatly limits the class customizations.
Is this a familiar situation: oops I am at 9\10 to level up, can't use any of my major skills until i max that 10 endurance out... so better go train with a summon skeleton... oh wait conjuration is my major skill I cannot do that.

P.S.
I wrote this opus because Oblivion is really dear to me. But after the initial strong feelings for it have settled, I realized it's biggest flaw; I've played through the game many times and every time I hated what I did yet continued playing.