Guide to Improving Combat Strategy

[Wahooka]

I have been playing Oblivion for a while and reached level 49. I've completed all the guild quests, the main quest, and probably at least half of the side quests. I'm still finding combat to be a grind, and I haven't gotten that much better at it.

I don't want quest or game spoilers, but I would like some combat advice.

I will quickly discuss my current combat strategy and abilities.

Level 49

Kahjit Warrior Spellsword

Health 631
Magicka 280
Fatigue 414

Strength 102
Intelligence 140
Willpower 100
Agility 102
Speed 66
Endurance 110
Personality 98
Luck 77

Skills include complete mastery of Blade, Block, Heavy Armor, Mysticism, Conjuration, Destruction, Alteraion.

I have Reflect Damage at 61% and Spell Aborption at 46%.

My basic strategy is very simple, I just swing my magic weapon about 10-20 times until the creature is defeated, or I cast a destruction spell that does 100 damage, and keep drinking potions to restore Magicka.

Both these methods are rather time consuming. I sometimes do a Paralyze spell if it is one opponent, and then still it takes a lot of attacks to finally win.

I find the majority of the skills and abilities in the game do not help me any further in combat. For example, trying to Damage Strength or other attriubtes isn't that helpful, nor is Disintegrate Weapon worth the time it takes. Seems other strategies and spells I have explored don't do that much, for instance Summon Wraith and other creatures doesn't help much either, I am stronger then anyone I can summon.

In the end, combat just stays a long grind, and I wonder if there is some key to strategy that I'm just missing, or is there some way more efficient?

Thanks for advice.

[EnclaveEyebot]

have you tried nexus mods at all? There are many combat overhauls that make combat much less of a pain, but also adds danger to the mix.  Just a thought, I know that oblivion vanilla combat is tiresome...whack whack whack whack etc.  
 
These mods remix the leveled enemies so that you will come across enemies that are very difficult, but make bandits/etc a minor nuisance.

Enemies in this game are scaled to your level, meaning that even though you level up, they follow you in difficulty. Mods are really the only way to escape this issue, if you find it an issue.

[CullinB]

Make spell <Calm 2sec> + <Drain Health 100> + <Weakness to Magic 100 4sec>
Then cast repeatedly, you can kill enemy 600 health with 5 or 6 shots.

[Wahooka]

I didn't know you could combine those 3 effects into 1 single spell. I might try this, but is it that different from just casting a normal Destruction spell that causes 100 pts damage?

Also, the problem with casting that 6 times is the drain on Magicka and the need for excessive amounts of Sorcery potions.

As for mods, I don't believe in them :)

[CullinB]

I tested this Spell with "Uderfryte"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t88Zbugg1GE
Sorry for this video is made with Japanese
But you can see how it works.
Since the character's skill in this video is not 100 so you can cast it with less cost than I.

[Wahooka]

So what difference does Weakness to Magic or Weakness to Fire really make in terms of inceasing damage? The game doesn't really explain this at all.

Also, what would cause more damage, Fire Destruction plus Weakness to Fire, or combining Weakness to Magic with any destruction spell?

Also, keep in mind that I only have about 380 Magicka at most, if I temporarily increase by casting Fortify Magicka. So it isn't like I can create spells that require thousands of Magicka points.

There are youtube videos of people creating massively damaging spells, but I think they are modding the game and cheating, cause the spells cost over 2,000 Magicka.

[CullinB]

Originally posted by Wahooka:

So what difference does Weakness to Magic or Weakness to Fire really make in terms of inceasing damage? The game doesn't really explain this at all.

Weakness to Magic do stack.
That is why we use Weakness to Magic

[Wahooka]

What do you mean by "do stack" ?

You mean that the more I cast it, the more it adds up, but Weakness to Fire doesn't?

So if I cause an opponent to become Weak to Magic, how does that effect damage done to him?

Why did you choose Drain Health instead of a destruction spell?

[arottweiler]

Your magica seems low for level 49 because I thought it increased at every level up but you can still make some useful spells. There's a spell I created which causes 100% weakness in fire, shock and frost and lasts for 20 seconds which I called Prestriker and a spell that causes 30pts damage in fire, shock and frost and lasts for 10 seconds which I called Grimstriker and it helped me deal with some very tough oponents. Giving the spells names just helped me locate them easier in the spell list.

Maybe find some armour that increases your magica but you are still well armoured and then create some new spells with the increased magica level. I also like to enchant a dagger which are very light and enchant them with multiple weakness spells so this means I can use the dagger on an enemy without using any magica and then slam a Grimstriker in to them while they are weakened to the damage effects of the spell. One is usually enough to make it game over for them because even if they are immune to one or two of the damage effects I don't know of any enemies who are immune to all 3 (fire, shock and frost) apart from Will-o-wisps possibly. I'll never forget a hilarious moment I fast travelled to a cave that I forgot has 3 will-o-wisps outside who immediately attack and they are probably the toughtest enemy to fight so dealing with 3 is usually run away time. My character is the Breton race and I was wearing the Mundane ring and other enchantments which gave me 100% immunity to magic and about 60% reflect damage. All 3 of the wisps died very quickly and I didn't need to lift a finger :D I just watched their health bars drain away while they were trying to attack me. Vicious little things deserved it.

The UESP forums has detailed information about how the magic system works and is highly detailed so it's worth checking out.

[Wahooka]

Thank you, you gave some good tips.

My Magicka increased at each level, but maybe the race or sign I chose made it worse, I'm not sure.

I enchanted all my armor to Fortify Intelligence by 10, so I have gained about 100 extra Magicka that way, plus the Fortify Magicka will give me 400 total, or 380 if I wear Mankor Camoran's robe instead of a magical Curiass.

I also hate Wisps :)

So most easy creatures I can kill with about 3 Destruction spells and the difficult creatures take about 6 or 7, or sometimes more, so maybe all the extra Weakness spells aren't necessary? Will they really save me much effort?

It appears that most people like Weakness spells, so maybe they are more powerful then I realize. I will check out the link you mentioned, thank you!

[arottweiler]

Originally posted by Wahooka:

Thank you, you gave some good tips.

So most easy creatures I can kill with about 3 Destruction spells and the difficult creatures take about 6 or 7, or sometimes more, so maybe all the extra Weakness spells aren't necessary? Will they really save me much effort?

With weakness spells used before the destruction spell it could halve the amount of times you need to cast a destruction spell so you use less magica and don't need to consume as many magica potions during a large battle. UESP also has a section on enemy weaknesses and immunities which is worth reading because when you know an enemies weakness you have the advantage. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Creature_Resistances

Mods add some insanely tough enemies so it's always good to have weakness spells because without them it would become almost impossible to defeat some enemies I've encountered. One example is an enemy called the Emero-El who appear in the Midas Spells mod. If you're not prepared to take them on then nothing you throw at them will have any effect.

[Wahooka]

It seems that Weakness is something I've overlooked as I've played the game.

So would you rather create a spell that combines weakness and damage, or two separate spells for each?

CullinB created a spell that combines weakness, drain health, and calm, and you made 2 different spells. Not sure whose is better, but they sound like they both work.

Also, he said that Weakness to Magic stacks, and Weakness to Fire,Frost,Lightning do not stack, is he right?

[The Flying Rodent]

Weakness spells are the most effective go-to to make combat less of a grind, though they arguably make it too easy.

The difference between Magic and Fire/Frost/Shock weakness is that Weakness to Magic applies to ALL magic [including OTHER weakness spells], whereas Weakness to a particular element only works for a particular element. So stacking Weakness to Fire on its own will not cause it to multiply, but Weakness to Magic stacked WILL multiply, and a duel Weakness to Magic + Weakness to Fire spell causes BOTH to multiply.

Weakness to Magic + Drain Health is a comparatively low-cost way of killing monsters. Basically you have a series of Drain Health '100pts for a short duration' + 'Weakness to Magic 100% for a short duration' spells, that stack with each other and are all active at one time. So for e.g. the first spell will deal 200 drain health [100% weak], the next will deal 400 drain health [300% weak], and they'll both stack for 600 health. You can also enchant swift weapons [such as daggers, which will swing fast resulting in lots of enchantments active], in conjunction with a soul trap enchantment and Azuras Star, and drain health everybody whilst keeping your weapon charged.

I personally prefer spellcasting and using elements such as Fire, because you can stack them to a greater degree, even if they cost more Magicka, and deal a LOT more damage. If you're playing the game on Maximum Difficulty [i.e. dealing 1/6 normal damage, like I was when I played regularly], this is one of a few methods you can use to deal the ridiculous amounts of damage required to kill certain monsters in Vanilla Oblivion.

The concept is explained in detail here:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Spell_Making#Spell_Stacking

And if you want some other high-end Oblivion strategies, why not read my shamelessly plugged High Difficulty Guide!

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=873311868

[Wahooka]

So it is better to pair Drain Health instead of Fire Damage with Weakness to Magic, because you are saying that Drain Health will cost less to cast then a Fire spell, plus the creature might be immune to fire, so Drain Health sort of covers all your bases, am I understanding that correctly?

I dont know what Azuras Star is, perhaps that is something you get for completing a quest, and since I don't want quest spoilers, I'll just leave that for a different thread.

So I checked out my spells and I have Absorb Health for 100 points, won't that be even better then Drain Health?

[The Flying Rodent]

Azura's Star is a quest item. The hint as to where you receive the quest is in the name of the item itself...





As for what type of spells to use: It comes down to efficiency. What is going to be the most efficient [magicka and/or time wise] way of killing monsters with spells.


http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Drain_Health Base Cost: 0.9

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Fire_Damage Base Cost: 7.5

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Absorb_Health Base Cost: 16

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Weakness_to_Magic Base Cost: 0.25

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Weakness_to_Fire Base Cost: 0.1

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Spell_Making

Spell Formula:

B = Base Cost / 10
M = Magnitude ^ 1.28
D = Duration
A = Area × 0.15
Total cost = B × M × D × A x Skill Multiplier [1.4 - 0.012 × Skill, or 0.2 at Mastery Level].


It's easy to get lost in the maths, so just looking at relationships above: Spell Magnitude increases exponentially [to the power of 1.28] whereas duration increases linearly [to the power of 1]. So a 10 pts Fire Damage for 10 second spell will cost significantly less Magicka than a 100 pts fire damage for 1s spell, even though they technically deal the same amount of damage. Therefore if you were to make a high damage Elemental spell [Fire Frost or Shock], its more efficient to give it less than 100 magnitude, and increase its duration instead.

This however is irrelevant when you're considering Drain Health, because duration doesn't effect the total damage dealt. If you're to make Drain Health into an offensive spell, you'd be aiming for 100 points for 1 second.

To 'stack' Weakness to Magic Spells, requires 2 spells of different names to be cast one after the other on a target. So say you had the two spells 'Weak 1' and 'Weak 2' that both dealt Weakness to Magic 100% for 5 seconds [Cost at 100 Destruction is about 15ish magicka], and the Drain Health 100 points for 1 second spell, 'Killshot' [cost at 100 Destruction is 10ish magicka].

Killshot alone = 100 Damage.
W1 + KS = 200 Damage.
W1 + W2 + KS = 400 Damage.
W1 + W2 + W1 + KS = 700 Damage.
W1 + W2 + W1 + W2 + KS = 1200 Damage.
W1 + W2 + W1 + W2 + W1 + KS = 2000 Damage, which is enough to kill anything in the game on Normal Difficulty.

This would be the most efficient way, magicka wise, to kill high level monsters. The downside is that you'd have to land a lot of Weakness Spells quickly and in succession on one target for this to work, and if not enough are active for the Drain Health Spell to kill the target [for e.g. if the Weakness Spells missed or got reflected/absorbed/dispelled], then the target returns to full health after the Drain Health effect runs out. Xivilai and Dremora could be a pain to get rid of using this technique.

The advantage of Elemental Damage, whilst it can be a bit more expensive, is that lots of 'weaknesses' can be packed into the one spell, and damage can be dealt more quickly with comparatively less spells cast.

As an example, consider the spell 'Super Weakness', which deals 100 Weakness to Magic, Fire, Frost and Shock, all 100%, for 5 seconds [which at 100 Destruction would cost about 30ish magicka]. Then consider 'Rainbow Killshot', which deals 100 points Fire, 100 pts Frost, 100 pts Shock, and Drain Health 100 pts, all for 1 second.

With Super Weakness active, the target will take double damage from normal Magicka Sources, and 'double double' damage [or Quadruple Damage] from the Elemental sources, as the Weakness to Element spells are now amplified by the Weakness to Magicka Spell.

The Upshot is that with these two spells alone, i.e.:

Super Weakness + Rainbow Killshot,

... The target will take 400 Fire + 400 Frost + 400 Shock + 200 Drain = 1400 Damage in TWO spells, which is also enough to kill any monster in the game on Normal Difficulty [Level 50ish Ogres have 1300 Health]. To achieve the same effect with Weakness to Magic + Drain Health takes SIX spells.

These two spells would be a lot more magicka costly than the first option, but would drastically reduce kill time and bypass the issues that come with having to land multiple Weakness spells and have them stick. I'm not 100% sure what the cost of the 'Rainbow Killshot' spell would be, but if you made all the elements deal 10 pts for 10secs damage instead of 100 pts for 1 second, the spell would be significantly cheaper.




IMO, I'd make both. Some Weakness to Magic Only + Drain Health Only spells for average enemies, then a Super Weakness + Rainbow Kill type spell for tanky enemies with levelled health bars.

As for Absorb Health: It costs 17 times more than Drain Health, and can't be amplified the same way that elemental damage can. It's also Restoration, not Destruction [and I'm not sure what your Restoration skill is]. I wouldn't really bother with it.

[Wahooka]

Thank you, it will take me a while to study this, but it is very useful, I appreciate it.

I would like to master the combat in this game, as I still have a lot of quests left and I don't want to use my usual strategy which just has not been effective.

So I will take the advice in this thread, thank you!