Weapon Damage

[Ankh]

So, the wiki is a bit too detailed for my liking, can i get a simple way to compare weapons? Like is a 4 dmg iron longsword that does 5 pts of fire dmg better than a 6 damage silver longsword?

I ask because the formula in the wiki for weapon damage has the "damage" of the weapons as BaseWeaponDamage but it doesnt help me figure this out.

[CullinB]

In vanilla we can only see calculated damage in inventory menu.
If you can install OBSE, there is a good MOD "Display Stats".
This mod shows each weapon's detailed data.

http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/31855/

[Belanos]

So what's so complicated about that? A 4 damage sword with 5 damage fire would 4 + 5 = 9. So yes, that's way more damage than a 6 damage Silver blade. It's not that hard to figure out. All that base damage means is the damage a weapon inflicts when a character is at it's lowest level possible. Which would be level 1.

[LessTenaciousD]

The damage is higher for the iron sword because it has the added fire damage bonus, however, at a low level the better choice is the silver sword. Both wepons can deal damage to ghost/etheral enemies because one is enchanted and the other silver, but if you don't have the right armorer perks, you won't be able to fix the iron sword yourself, and having it repaired can get expensive. Also, you have to keep recharging the iron sword, something you don't have to do with silver. However if I recall correctly, silver damages faster than other materials. It's all personal preference.

As a general rule of thumb, for non-enchanted weapons, the higher the tier the better the damage. Enchantments do different damage to different enemies based on the race bonus of each compared to the element or enchatment, but shock is always a safe bet because of the lack of shock def with many enemies. That said, weapon speed also play a part with DPS, and weapon weight as well.

[cyäegha]

it's not an exact science, but most creatures you meet in oblivion and dark elves are resistant to fire, to the degree that the unenchanted weapon may be more powerful against them

similarly, any atronach of a given element is outright immune to said element, and nords are resistant to frost, and enemy altmer are weak to all elements to some degree

Originally posted by LessTenaciousD:

but shock is always a safe bet because of the lack of shock def with many enemies.

[Arrancar]

You can find math for base dmg in UESP wiki and Enchantment dmg comes after base dmg.
So let's compare your two swords now.

4 dmg iron longsword with 5 fire dmg. ench. :
- 9 dmg total on enemies that does not resist fire(aka they have no fire resistance or weakness)
- even more dmg on enemies that are weak to fire( for example weakness to fire 50% : 4 base dmg +5 fire dmg + 2.5 bonus dmg = 11.5 dmg total)
- comparable damage to 6 dmg. silver longsword to enemies who resist fire(enemy with 50% fire resist : 4base dmg+5 fire dmg -2.5 dmg fire resist = 6.5 dmg total)
- 4 dmg to enemies who are immune to fire(aka 100% resist = immunity)
- you can still hit ghosts, wisps etc... when you have 0 charges, but only for 4 dmg
- some enemies resist normal weapons, so your sword will do less dmg(only 4 base dmg counts and it will be lower, for example enemy with 25% resist normal weapons will take only 3 dmg from your sword + enchantment)

6 dmg silver longsword :
- you will hit all enemies for 6 dmg

It's good to know if your enemy resist normal weapons or fire/lighting/frost dmg. Majority of the undead are weak to fire(trolls and spriggans are weak to fire as well for example) and are resistant/immune to frost dmg. Many of non elemental daedra are weak to lighting dmg and resist fire dmg. Also many enemies resist or are completely immune to poisons as well. Toughest from Atronachs are Storm Atronachs since they have no weakness. Flame and Frost Atronachs are good against each other(although Frost is tougher overall).

Hopefully this will help you a little bit.

[Borrolan]

A light shortsword, or a dagger, enchanted with Drain Health 100 points for 1 second, and Weakness to Magic 100% for 4 seconds, is enough to kill some enemies in several, quick swipes - Weakness to Magic stacks any enchanted damage effect with each hit, where the Weakness to Magic effect is still active. Hardly any enemies resist magic.

Weakness to Magic should always be added last in any list of damage effects.

Shortswords and Daggers are good for this trick because it needs speed to work.

Very powerful weapon if augmented with all other elemental, damage enchantments - say 3-6 points of each.

A bow/dagger enchanted with a simple Drain Health 100 points for 1 second, takes out some weaker enemies with stealth kills (damage multiplier of between 2 and 6)

[Classified: TS/BBR]

I just want to note that I've seen a couple of things a little less than accurate/helpful,

1) Base Weapon Damage is what you will deal at 100 Str/Agi, 100 Skill, 100% Fatigue, No Power Attack, No Sneak Bonus, No Enchantment Damage & No Poison Damage. It is not what you would deal at skill level 1.

2) The mentioned "Drain Health 100pts for 1s & Weakness to Magic 100% for 4s" enchantment on a dagger is, IMAO, a tad excessive, on a dagger or shortsword you can usually get away with having both of these at 2s or even 1s (both weapons can hit more than once in a single second, meaning that the 2nd hit adds to the 1st momentarily, & benefits from it, meaning as long as you're hitting quickly the effect of the drain health is effectively doubled each time by the Weakness).

3) Using the above enchantment for 3s or 4s on each component on a bow on the other hand is how you keep stacking the effect for ranged attacks (2s generally means the first will have expired before the 2nd arrow hits), you may need to reduce the magnitude of the Drain Health, but keep the Weakness at 100% whatever you do.

4) The "Sneak Attack" damage bonuses do not apply to damage from enchantments, poisons, or spells (or 2-handed weapons for that matter), & so they won't make your enchanted weapons all that much more effective (that said, a Daedric Bow + Daedric Arrows for 100 sneak attack will deal 105pts of damage that ignores armor, that's 105 fewer points your enchantment has to strip the target of, which may result in your having to recharge less often) [OTOH a Daedric Dagger Sneak Attack at 100 skill is 114pts, & you might actually get more than one hit in before you lose stealth as you aren't actually detected until the target can see you...<AIUI>].

5) When creating Custom Enchanted weapons (as opposed to using existing ones or Sigil Stones) I recommend making the 1st effect a Soul Trap so you don't forget it, it makes recharging your weapons much simpler if you cart empty soul gems along.

6) Weakness to Magic applies to a subsequent effect for the duration of the enchanced effect not the Weakness, so if you land a 2s 100% Weakness followed by 10s Fire Damage, the Fire Damage will deal twice as much damage (less resistances) for each of it's 10s compared to what it would've done without the Weakness.

[Ankh]

Thanks for your advice everyone.

Originally posted by Classified: TS/BBR:

6) Weakness to Magic applies to a subsequent effect for the duration of the enchanced effect not the Weakness, so if you land a 2s 100% Weakness followed by 10s Fire Damage, the Fire Damage will deal twice as much damage (less resistances) for each of it's 10s compared to what it would've done without the Weakness.

So then would you recommend at a later stage I enchant a sword with Soul trap -> weakness to magic -> drain health?

[LessTenaciousD]

Originally posted by cyäegha:

it's not an exact science, but most creatures you meet in oblivion and dark elves are resistant to fire, to the degree that the unenchanted weapon may be more powerful against them

similarly, any atronach of a given element is outright immune to said element, and nords are resistant to frost, and enemy altmer are weak to all elements to some degree

Originally posted by LessTenaciousD:

but shock is always a safe bet because of the lack of shock def with many enemies.

No to mention, in Oblivion some of the most common enemies are Daedra, almost all of which are weak to shock. And to expand on you said, Dark elves are resistant to fire (generally the most common enchantment) and Nords to frost. Altmer are weak to all three elements, Bosmer, Argonians, Redguards, and Orcs all take standard shock damage, and Bretons are 50% resistant to magic.

Some enemies, like Clannfears are 20% weak to shock, while others like the Storm Atronach are 100% resistant. Only two enemies in Oblivion are resistant to shock, the atronach, and the spriggan with a 30% resistance. It's the most expensive spell and enchantment in mana/charges (of the three), but there are few enemies that can stand up to it for long.

If you're just starting Oblivion, play for fun and don't worry about all the stats too much, it can seem a little overwhelming at first. You'll pick up what works and what doesn't just from playing.

[󰀉tempeh󰀉]

Originally posted by InXA Ankh:

Thanks for your advice everyone.

So then would you recommend at a later stage I enchant a sword with Soul trap -> weakness to magic -> drain health?

Yes. Absolutely yes.

Or even just soul trap + drain health, and stack weakness to magic using spells.

[The Flying Rodent]

Originally posted by InXA Ankh:

So, the wiki is a bit too detailed for my liking, can i get a simple way to compare weapons? Like is a 4 dmg iron longsword that does 5 pts of fire dmg better than a 6 damage silver longsword?

I ask because the formula in the wiki for weapon damage has the "damage" of the weapons as BaseWeaponDamage but it doesnt help me figure this out.

There's already been a lot said here about what works, particularly late game. "Weakness to Magicka stacked + Short Drain Health periods + Soul Trap" enchantments on multiple weapons works well [and IMO is pretty gamebreaking and silly], and Azura's Star might also be a good idea [indestructible soul gem, keep enchanting things FOREVAAA].

Early game however, this isn't too helpful. Enchanted Weapons are a rarity, and even if you have one you have to find ways of recharging it. Unenchanted plain weapons, ranging in quality/damage from Rusty Iron to Daedric, will be responsible for the bulk, if not all, of your damage. Higher Quality variants deal progressively more damage and get progressively heavier. To figure out which weapons deal more damage, just compare the 'damage' values in the character sheet. Arrancar does a good breakdown, read their post!

Beyond that: I realise that the formula is complicated, but it can be worth going through to figure out what things are more important than others when it comes to weapon damage.

The full rundown is here:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Complete_Damage_Formula

Most of the variables for these formulae are just fixed values that are added or multipled. However there are some values that can change the amount of damage the player does. These include:

- Skills ( 0.2 + ModifiedSkill * 0.015 ). In other words, at 100 skill level, this value contributes 1.7 [100x0.015 is 1.5 , + 0.2 = 1.7] and at 0 skill level, this value contributes 0.2. So the player will deal 12-100% possible damage depending on their skill level.

In addition: For every 5 points of Luck above/below 50, the Skill value increases/decreases by 2 points [so 60 luck = +4 bonus skill, 50 luck = +0 bonus skill, 40 luck = -4 bonus skill, etc.].

This value maxes out at 100, so buffing skills beyond that wont effect damage.

- Weapon Condition [( WeaponHealth / BaseWeaponHealth + 1 ) / 2]. In other words, at 100% weapon condition, this value contributes 1. Approaching 0% weapon condition [just before the weapon breaks and cannot be equipped], this value contributes 0.5. Skilled Armorers can boost weapon condition to 125% [value 1.125]. So: the player will deal 44-100% possible damage depending on the condition of their weapon [0.5 / 1.125 = 0.4444, so 0.5 is 44% of 1.125].

- Fatigue [( Current Fatigue / MaxFatigue + 1 ) / 2]. In other words, at 100% fatigue level, this value contributes 1. With no fatigue, this value contributes 0.5. So the player will deal 50-100% possible damage depending on what their fatigue level is...

Excluding Fortify Fatigue Buffs! Outside of Enchantments, Fortifying Fatigue is the ONLY way to increase Weapon Damage once all the other parameters reach their maximum. Fatigue can be buffed beyond 100%, and this contributes to damage. For every 1% Fatigue is buffed beyond 100%, it adds 0.5% damage. So for e.g. if a character with 400/400 Fatigue, buffs Fatigue by 100 to 500/400 [25% higher], weapon damage is increased by 12.5%. Of course, swinging a weapon lowers fatigue, so this buffing does not last very long unless fatigue is buffed very very high.

In short: Keep fatigue as high as you can, and if you have high Restoration, buff the crap out of it.

- Attributes i.e. Strength for Melee, Agility for Bows ( 0.75 + Attribute * 0.005 ). In other words, at 100 strength/agility, this value contributes 1.25, and at 0 this value contributes 0.75. So the player will deal 60-100% damage depending on what their Attribute level is.

Given that abilities generally range from 30-100, this is more like 70-100% damage unless abilities get damaged. This value maxes out at 100, so buffing attributes beyond that wont effect damage.


So! Things that effect weapon damage in order of importance [excluding the Base Damage of the weapon and its enchantments]:

1. Skill Level
2. Weapon Condition
3. Fatigue Level
4. Strength/Agility.

For Hand to Hand you have:

Health_Damage = 1 + 10.5 * (Strength / 100) * (ModifiedSkill / 100)

Which implies that BOTH strength and skill level contribute equally to damage [although strength will start higher and be more difficult to increase], maxing out at 11.5 damage with 100 Strength/Hand to Hand, excluding Fortify Fatigue buffs [which I assume adds more damage, despite Fatigue level not being mentioned, maybe fatigue level doesnt effect Unarmed damage?].

After that, then there's the other stuff like Weapon speed [small weapons swing faster than large ones], Weapon Stagger [heavier weapons stagger more than light weapons], Power Attacks [2x-2.5x damage], sneak attacks [4x-6x melee, 2x-3x ranged], block stagger, etc.


And then once you have Weakness to Magic/Soul Trap/Drain Health enchantments available, you can throw aaaaaaall that knowledge out the window and walk around with Soul Gems + Azura's Star + a Cache of Enchanted Iron Daggers [Weakness to Magic 100% for 2 second/Soul Trap for 2 seconds/Drain Health 100 points for 2-5ish seconds, perhaps longer duration for higher health monsters?] and hax-stab all the things.

Or you could just use spells. They're a lot lower maintenance, and a lot more entertaining.