Can't Save Games

[ralphtobybob]

I haven't had any problems before like this, either vanilla or with Unofficial Patch.

Fast-traveled to Imperial City from Anvil. Entered Merchants Inn to sell stuff to Battlhorn Castle vendor. Done this lots of times.

Quick-saved after entering Inn. Crash to desktop. Tried loading quicksave and autosave, but both were corrupt. Used the backup autosave and it loaded. Can't exit the Inn or CTD, can't quicksave.

I disabled save on travel/sleep and was able to exit. Went back to Anvil, tried to quicksave, CTD.

I did install Unofficial Patch, but that made no difference.

Verified files - okay.

I uninstalled the game, and just got through downloading it again. Haven't tried loading the game mostly because if that doesn't fix it, it's walk away time and I was really getting into it, again.

I've already checked Google and UESP, no help there.

Thanks for any help.

[󰀉tempeh󰀉]

You're not going to like my answer, but... do you have any older, regular saves?

The game doesn't always detect when a save is corrupt. Sometimes it produces doomed saves that are already corrupt but that still load. At that point ~90% of attempts to save will crash and produce a corrupted save or no save at all, though the remaining ~10% will produce another doomed save and then crash shortly afterward.

I managed to push my own doomed saves forward to #230, but I finally grew frustrated and quit. After a year, I came back and carefully documented the state of my backup saves and how much work I'd have to redo. I ended up reverting to save #200.

That wasn't the last time I had a doomed save, but I recognized them a lot sooner afterward and thus lost a lot less time. I also don't have any definitive answers about what causes them, but I documented my best guesses and the successful workarounds I found.

I'll make a couple more posts to provide my Instigators of Doom list.

[󰀉tempeh󰀉]

THE INSTIGATORS OF DOOM!

general format:

• scenario
  
• workaround
  
• commentary

• unfinished mages staff in inventory @save?
  
• finish quest first OK
  
• may have been using corpse as container, though, but looks like quest object

• talking to Umbra & Barbas
  
• attack Umbra unprovoked OK
  
• inescapable proof some dialogues cause corruption

• Hackdirt keys touch inventory
  
• keyless OK
  
• brethren inventory untouched, could be anything

• something something Orrery quest
  
• try again OK
  
• may have been using corpse as container? Pirate cove fence problem?

• sell & buy back stolen ingredients
  
• other items OK
  
• maybe selling mix of legal & stolen does it too?

• the Great Divide pre-Madgod
  
• delay until after main quest OK
  
• dialogue backout? NPC disarmed? combat AI lag glitch?

• early Battlehorn Castle quest
  
• quick resolution OK
  
• OK if anonymous man-at-arms never joins battle? maybe his combat AI package is screwy

• return trip aquanostrum bottle in inventory @save
  
• fill & return before saving OK
  
• inescapable proof carrying certain quest items causes corruption

• free suicide soul stamina blessing
  
• step out of range of spell OK

• kill Brithaur for quest
  
• arrest OK
  
• maybe because the guards killed him in the shop?

• endless knights at Split
  
• avoid until safe OK
  
• NPC disarmed? combat AI lag glitch? same as the quest or not?

• something something Retaking Fringe?
  
• no talk no steal OK
  
• Sheldon swiped a weapon, Dredhwen died, combat AI lag glitch, looting already dead knights?

• talk to Lord Drad / take bleak mine key
  
• no talk no key OK
  
• also in the uncorrupted attempt I never attacked the guards, even undetected

• something north of Kvatch?
  
• try again OK
  
• maybe I screwed up laundering stolen items, or somebody got disarmed?

• something northern Great Forest?
  
• clear roads first OK
  
• Legion patrol got disarmed maybe?

• something something Bleaker's Way?
  
• no talky no stealy OK
  
• Could have been bandit on road East, could have been keys?

• lagerrific Upper Niben
  
• go slow on road OK
  
• probably bandits vs. Legion, goblin war; killing bandits OK, going on water & ignoring is not

• the assassinated man
  
• all in one go OK
  
• risen flesh during previous mission? languorwine antidote? who knows

• information gathering blackwood mercs
  
• critical path OK
  
• loot, steal, kill, just don't chitchat with the Argonian any more than absolutely necessary

• necromancer's amulet in inventory @save
  
• hand in first OK
  
• amulet in inventory possibly guilty; everything else OK, but random fluke not tested. Also note that the version of the amulet the UESP gives you after the MG questline is safe.

• conjurer dungeons & Rowley Eardwulf
  
• clear roads first OK
  
• there was definitely a guard vs. bear fight at Ceyatatar; don't know about Belda

• Talwinque misadventure (doomed: 1253)
  
• revert save, delay
  
• probably combat AI lag glitch triggered by something outside, definitely not M'aiq the Liar

• Wawnet lagtastic ditto (doomed: 1274)
  
• revert save ditto
  
• ditto

• Nothing You Can Possess
  
• let Maric escape OK
  
• reacquired key or killing Claude Maric caused corruption

[󰀉tempeh󰀉]

Again, as a reminder, these notes are only my best guesses. I did not test them thoroughly after I found a work-around that produced stable saves. Consequently, they may be closer to superstition than science, but at least it's something to start with.

Some answers, however, I have more confidence in than the others. Usually because I had stable saves closer to the start and end of the cause, there were fewer variables, and it took more thorough experimentation to find a work-around.

As a general rule, I would strongly advise against the following:

• talking to Umbra
  
• selling stolen alchemy ingredients to fences and then buying them back again (all other items are okay)
  
• selling a mix of stolen and legal copies of the same item to a fence
  
• saving after bulk-sale or bulk-purchase transactions with a fence exchange the wrong number of items; just load immediately, you're already doomed
  
• reaquiring a quest item that was removed from your inventory during the quest
  
• saving while any quest item mentioned in the above list is in your inventory
  
• picking up any keys mentioned in the above list
  
• saving the game if severe lag starts while NPCs are in combat; just load immediately, you're already doomed (yes, even if the lag ends an hour later)
  
• visiting the general vicinity of Split while obelisks of order are active
  
• speaking to Ajum-Kajin for any more than the absolute bare minimum topics needed to complete Information Gathering
  
• using corpses as containers
  
• approaching the general vicinity of Battlehorn Castle if you can't break the siege in 10 seconds or less. I advise wide-area weakness stacking with wide-area paralysis included and >250 speed. I have 316 Speed and 243 Athletics.

[ralphtobybob]

Originally posted by temporarymanwastaken:

You're not going to like my answer, but... do you have any older, regular saves?

The game doesn't always detect when a save is corrupt. Sometimes it produces doomed saves that are already corrupt but that still load. At that point ~90% of attempts to save will crash and produce a corrupted save or no save at all, though the remaining ~10% will produce another doomed save and then crash shortly afterward.

I managed to push my own doomed saves forward to #230, but I finally grew frustrated and quit. After a year, I came back and carefully documented the state of my backup saves and how much work I'd have to redo. I ended up reverting to save #200.

That wasn't the last time I had a doomed save, but I recognized them a lot sooner afterward and thus lost a lot less time. I also don't have any definitive answers about what causes them, but I documented my best guesses and the successful workarounds I found.

I'll make a couple more posts to provide my Instigators of Doom list.

I kinda knew that. Normally, I just delete the save and rename the backup of the previous quick/auto save.

But I happened to be online, and the corrupt save kept getting downloaded. So I only have an autosave. Normally, I only do a save in a regular slot when there's a chance the game could go in a different direction. That way I can go back and try an alternative action.

I have the non-DRM DVD GOTY version and it's never completely hosed like this. The version I'm playing is the Deluxe digital.

The discussions I found about this were autosave problems but quicksave still worked.

The corrupt files are about 200kb in size.

I'd already started a new game. My previous character build was a flop, but fixable if I wanted to spend hours and hours beefing up other skills and using only potions to keep him from leveling up even more. But I had already reached the paid training limit for that level.

This game was working out really well, and I had only recenlty finished an ingredient gathering expedition. I've also picked every lock I've come across, except in the Guilds. Because Battlehorn and Frostcrag DLC step on each other, I've also had to pick the lock at Mystic Emporium.


I seem to remember some workarounds from before, like starting a new quest or closing one out or some other action that clears up whatever is causing this.

Now if I can just keep him alive long enough to be able to save.

Thanks for the input.

[ralphtobybob]

Originally posted by temporarymanwastaken:

Again, as a reminder, these notes are only my best guesses. I did not test them thoroughly after I found a work-around that produced stable saves. Consequently, they may be closer to superstition than science, but at least it's something to start with.

Some answers, however, I have more confidence in than the others. Usually because I had stable saves closer to the start and end of the cause, there were fewer variables, and it took more thorough experimentation to find a work-around.

As a general rule, I would strongly advise against the following:

• talking to Umbra
  
• selling stolen alchemy ingredients to fences and then buying them back again (all other items are okay)
  
• selling a mix of stolen and legal copies of the same item to a fence
  
• saving after bulk-sale or bulk-purchase transactions with a fence exchange the wrong number of items; just load immediately, you're already doomed
  
• reaquiring a quest item that was removed from your inventory during the quest
  
• saving while any quest item mentioned in the above list is in your inventory
  
• picking up any keys mentioned in the above list
  
• saving the game if severe lag starts while NPCs are in combat; just load immediately, you're already doomed (yes, even if the lag ends an hour later)
  
• visiting the general vicinity of Split while obelisks of order are active
  
• speaking to Ajum-Kajin for any more than the absolute bare minimum topics needed to complete Information Gathering
  
• using corpses as containers
  
• approaching the general vicinity of Battlehorn Castle if you can't break the siege in 10 seconds or less. I advise wide-area weakness stacking with wide-area paralysis included and >250 speed. I have 316 Speed and 243 Athletics.

I didn't see those problems in the patched DVD version of the game. Mostly I'd just get stuck in crevasses in the planes of Oblivion.

I launder stolen ingredients by using them for potions. Usually, most of my stolen stuff comes from houses that I have the keys to.

Just remembered, I would quit and restart the game every couple of hours or so to clear any memory leaks or other anomalies. That also gives my rat brain a break from trying to remember dungeon layouts.