Morrowind Workshop - Why or Why not?

[Nalle]

Please state your opinion, why or why not have Morrowind Workshop on Steam.

Please no "becuz i'm too lazy to manually install", learn it.

The "previous" thread's starter was VAC banned, so he can't practicipate on the discussion. So I decided to make a new one.

[selewi]

Uhmm there are so many mods for this game, and a lot of developers, a workshop would be amazing to organize all those mods and download them easy wherever you are i think.

[Nalle]

Origineel geplaatst door Selektzia:

Uhmm there are so many mods for this game, and a lot of developers, a workshop would be amazing to organize all those mods and download them easy wherever you are i think.

Most of modders don't own Morrowind on steam. And besides, steam doesn't come with the construction set so... Good luck buying the goty on disc and steam.

[Bilbo Bongins]

A morrowind steam workshop would be completly useless and it will just lead to people uploading other peoples mods.
It will also require bethesda to update morrowinds construction set, which they don't have the source files for anymore.
Plus, the steam version of Morrowind doesn't even have a Construction set.
Also, no one that seriously mods there game uses the workshop.
Steamwork shop has a 250mb file limit, and you can't upload files that hack morrowinds EXE, so mods like Tamriel Rebuilt, MGSO, MGE XE won't be on here.
The Morrowind modding community won't use workshop, since you can't deal with load order, bash patch, level list, cleaning saves, mge, mwse, etc.

[EgoMaster]

My modding experience tells me two game franchises are better off without Steam Workshop. One is GTA, the other is Elder Scrolls series. Here are my reasons:

1. Some mods use the same files. Steam will simply overwrite the previous file, which isn't necessarily a good thing. You may not get the effect you desire and you won't even know it. Example: There are high resolution textures for Better Bodies. Some mods alter the Better Bodies meshes and textures. If you install these mods later, Steam will simply overwrite the high resolutions ones. What's worse, the changes mods make to Better Bodies may be partial. So you'll have inconsistent texture resolution: Hands are high res, chests are low res etc. Color tone may also differ, which will make joints of the meshes stand out and look ugly.

2. In Elder Scrolls games, an object can only be modded once. Steam Workshop won't be able to handle this either. Example: Imagine you have two mods. One will make lighting more realistic, the other one let's you cook meat and eat it. Both of them will alter fires, but you won't get the effects of both mods. The latter one will overwrite the first.

3. This brings us to the third problem: Load order. Steam Workshop won't be able to handle that either. Morrowind mod load order is extremely important. If it's not handled by third party programs, game takes the newer one into account.

4. And that brings us to the fourth problem: Steam version of Morrowind can't use most of the mods out of the box because game files have newer dates, which renders most of the mods useless. The game will use the vanilla files, since they are newer.

5. Steam terms of service: 250 MB file limit.

6. Steam terms of service: No adult content, which doesn't necessarily mean pornographic. Better Bodies has nude option and won't be allowed into workshop as is. Some quest mods (like The Underground, a vampiric quest mod) or marriage mods also have adult themes.

7. Merging mods and leveled lists: Impossible with workshop but essential. This is a requirement for some mods to work. Example: Item additions.

The thing is, modding Elder Scrolls is not easy and Steam Workshop is not magic. It's good for "install and forget" type of modding, like Portal. In Elder Scrolls, you have ini edits, load order, merges, combines and Workshop is simply useless. It's simple but too crude for Morrowind (or any TES game for that matter). You can't split an atom with an axe.

[Nalle]

Origineel geplaatst door EgoMaster:

My modding experience tells me two game franchises are better off without Steam Workshop. One is GTA, the other is Elder Scrolls series. Here are my reasons:

1. Some mods use the same files. Steam will simply overwrite the previous file, which isn't necessarily a good thing. You may not get the effect you desire and you won't even know it. Example: There are high resolution textures for Better Bodies. Some mods alter the Better Bodies meshes and textures. If you install these mods later, Steam will simply overwrite the high resolutions ones. What's worse, the changes mods make to Better Bodies may be partial. So you'll have inconsistent texture resolution: Hands are high res, chests are low res etc. Color tone may also differ, which will make joints of the meshes stand out and look ugly.

2. In Elder Scrolls games, an object can only be modded once. Steam Workshop won't be able to handle this either. Example: Imagine you have two mods. One will make lighting more realistic, the other one let's you cook meat and eat it. Both of them will alter fires, but you won't get the effects of both mods. The latter one will overwrite the first.

3. This brings us to the third problem: Load order. Steam Workshop won't be able to handle that either. Morrowind mod load order is extremely important. If it's not handled by third party programs, game takes the newer one into account.

4. And that brings us to the fourth problem: Steam version of Morrowind can't use most of the mods out of the box because game files have newer dates, which renders most of the mods useless. The game will use the vanilla files, since they are newer.

5. Steam terms of service: 250 MB file limit.

6. Steam terms of service: No adult content, which doesn't necessarily mean pornographic. Better Bodies has nude option and won't be allowed into workshop as is. Some quest mods (like The Underground, a vampiric quest mod) or marriage mods also have adult themes.

7. Merging mods and leveled lists: Impossible with workshop but essential. This is a requirement for some mods to work. Example: Item additions.

The thing is, modding Elder Scrolls is not easy and Steam Workshop is not magic. It's good for "install and forget" type of modding, like Portal. In Elder Scrolls, you have ini edits, load order, merges, combines and Workshop is simply useless. It's simple but too crude for Morrowind (or any TES game for that matter). You can't split an atom with an axe.

You forgot few things.
1. This applies to Fallout 3/New Vegas too.
2. No exe hacks (MGE, MCP, 4GB Patch, EXE optimizer)
3. No mod managers. Just the lame data files tab.
4. No NMM/OMOD/FOMM installers. Every possible setting has to be uploaded separately.

[Seth]

Well it would make sense to make a workshop for Morrowind due to the fact it was the very first Elder scroll game which allow us to mod.

[Nalle]

Origineel geplaatst door Dragon:

Well it would make sense to make a workshop for Morrowind due to the fact it was the very first Elder scroll game which allow us to mod.

Make sense?

Most of the games out there can be modded. Still no workshop for even half of them.

1. Read the last few posts.
2. The game must me steam exclusive.

[cancelyourcable]

AGREED.

Origineel geplaatst door Selewi:

Uhmm there are so many mods for this game, and a lot of developers, a workshop would be amazing to organize all those mods and download them easy wherever you are i think.

[EgoMaster]

Origineel geplaatst door cancelyourcable:

AGREED.

Origineel geplaatst door Selewi:

Uhmm there are so many mods for this game, and a lot of developers, a workshop would be amazing to organize all those mods and download them easy wherever you are i think.

Nexus, Fliggerty and Morrowind mod history already do a perfect job in organizing and downloading mods. Why would we need a more restrictive and insufficient version of them?

[Gul Dukat]

Origineel geplaatst door EgoMaster:

Origineel geplaatst door cancelyourcable:

AGREED.

Nexus, Fliggerty and Morrowind mod history already do a perfect job in organizing and downloading mods. Why would we need a more restrictive and insufficient version of them?

Because people don't have the time or patience to manually set up their load order and download mods when they could simply click a single button and the mod would be installed. Also, sure it might not allow for bigger mods, but surely Morrowind Code Patch and Morrowind Patch Project would work just fine?

[EgoMaster]

Origineel geplaatst door King of Dragons (also tea):

Origineel geplaatst door EgoMaster:

Nexus, Fliggerty and Morrowind mod history already do a perfect job in organizing and downloading mods. Why would we need a more restrictive and insufficient version of them?

Because people don't have the time or patience to manually set up their load order and download mods when they could simply click a single button and the mod would be installed. Also, sure it might not allow for bigger mods, but surely Morrowind Code Patch and Morrowind Patch Project would work just fine?

Workshop doesn't order mods either. You (again) have to manually maintain load order so it's not easier in that regard. People have to have even more time and patience, because when mods are updated automatically, load order will break again.

In other news, Morrowind code patch is an exe hack and won't be allowed on Steam, just like MGE XE. Patch project will work fine, only if the load order is right. Yep, time and patience again.

Elder Scrolls modding isn't simple enough for Workshop. Modding Morrowind for nearly a decade, I know a thing or two about it and if it really was better, I would recommend it.

[Gul Dukat]

Origineel geplaatst door EgoMaster:

Origineel geplaatst door King of Dragons (also tea):

Because people don't have the time or patience to manually set up their load order and download mods when they could simply click a single button and the mod would be installed. Also, sure it might not allow for bigger mods, but surely Morrowind Code Patch and Morrowind Patch Project would work just fine?

Workshop doesn't order mods either. You (again) have to manually maintain load order so it's not easier in that regard. People have to have even more time and patience, because when mods are updated automatically, load order will break again.

In other news, Morrowind code patch is an exe hack and won't be allowed on Steam, just like MGE XE. Patch project will work fine, only if the load order is right. Yep, time and patience again.

Elder Scrolls modding isn't simple enough for Workshop. Modding Morrowind for nearly a decade, I know a thing or two about it and if it really was better, I would recommend it.

Workshop overhaul first. Modding later.

[MrMuffinz]

Why not?

Because Bethesda don't even know what a Morrowind is anymore.

[_Gorf_alot_]

i both agree with the op's consternation on the subject and agree with the technical limitations of steam. granted it would be nice if steam allowed for some server space for morrowind, and from what i see skyrim handles load order pretty well, but i can not see steam being able, technically or legally, to handle things like mge or the code patch. liscense wise a third party exe like those, and somthing that needs to be run by the user outside of the game and steam, takes away from the purpose, and is beyond the functionality, of the workshop. this does not mean they could still allow for textures and such, but really that is only scratching the surface of the mods out there, and some of the extra stuff is really necessary to play with a heavily modded morrowind, so once again it is a moot point. and yes, any of the exe manipulators (code patch, exe optimiser) would not be allowed as that would break any liscense they have with bethesda, but just to respond to another post above, i thought mge was just simply an overlay/parallel program and not an exe hack, but either way i doubt steam would allow it, certainly not wyre either at it would be redundant in their eyes, regardless of gmst and save fixing and the need for such. maybe the 4gb patch but that would be an automatic thing in steam when a x64 system is detected and not a mod, and that is only if bethesda allowed it.

[Brandybuck]

It's not my decision to have a Morrowind Workshop, it's solely up to Bethesda and Steam. And since Bethesda is *finished* with Morrowind and long long since moved on to other games, it's simply not going to happen. They aren't going to revisit a thirteen year old game to add workshop support.