What is Dagoth Ur/Voryn Dagoth's full story?

[armageddon]

Been trying to understand what his motivation was to become Dagoth Ur. The information I found.

1. Voryn Dagoth was a high councillor before all this.
2. He was a retainer or servant of Indoril Nerevar. Of course the word servant coiuld be used interchangeably with slave and we know the dunmer/chimer loved having slaves.
3. Voryn Dagoth didn't seem to actively participate in the fights with Nerevar vs. Ash giant.

It's strange that a high councillor was reduced to a position as a servant/slave to another. It's not like Voryn to just give up his position so he can be the Nerevar's lowly servant after all these are proto-dunmer or chimer we're talking about they're too proud for that and at an esteemed position at that. The most he could have done is join Nerevar in his adventures but still retain most of his power as a councillor. It's possible the Nerevar challenged Voryn and reduced him to a servant, possibly stripping away his position and power from him. There are many instances in the Morrowind main quest line where you fight dunmer of high places and take them down. While Nerevar was on his way to become hortator he may have done just that to Voryn and Voryn begged for mercy and in turn become the Nerevar's servant/slave.

It seems Voryn considers him a friend meaning what started as a master and slave exchange may have started to bud a friendship between each other. Dagoth Ur's choice of words towards the Nerevarine seemed they were friends.

"Dagoth Ur welcomes you Nerevar my old friend."
"Farewell sweet Nerevar."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YebMt5DDSF4

So on why Voryn Dagoth did what he did.

1. Jealousy. If not also for revenge for what Nerevar did to him but he envied Nerevar's station in life and the power he had so he used the power of the heart to become a god.

2. Accident. Voryn Dagoth actually wanted to help the Nerevar prove he's worth something so he believed the same way Nerevar used to strip the heart away from the ash giant, he did the same to the heart to try and destroy it. Perhaps there was a need to destroy it, someone or something may have appeared to force his hand. Could it have been Lorkhan himself that willed it? In this instance Dagoth was loyal to Nerevar or held him as a dear friend.

3. He wanted to save Nerevar. He knew of the plot of the Tribunal wanting to kill Nerevar because of how much power and recognition he had. So he became Dagoth Ur to do it but it failed when Nerevar killed him

[armageddon]

On another iteration it seems the Tribunal killed Nerevar and then Voryn Dagoth used the tools on the heart as a response to that. Either to become a god to fight them OR from my theory is Voryn Dagoth attempted to destroy the heart so the Tribunal couldn't take it but what was an attempt to destroy it with Kagrenac's tools instead turned him into a god.

[psychotron666]

He's not a slave, he's the leader of house dagoth one of the great houses, and right hand man to nerevar. He was in the final battle with nerevar against the dwemer, and ended in essentially a showdown between dumac (king of the dwemer) and kagrenac vs voryn and nerevar. They slayed dumac, and in a desperation attempt, kagrenac used the tools on the heart of lorkhan hoping the dwemer can all meld into the numidium and become a god, but ultimately eliminated the dwemer.

Voryn and nerevar looked at the tools that kagrenac used on the heart of lorkhan, understanding that were great weapons. Nerevar wanted advice from his 3 councillors, vivec, almalexia and sotha sil. So he told voryn to guard the tools from anyone who would want to take them, and left red mountain to get his homies.

When they returned, voryn had been entranced by the tools and heart similar to smeagol and the one ring, and at this point he had already used them unknown to nerevar. Nerevar wanted to take the tools and show them to the three, and voryn was all like "no! You told me to protect them from anyone who wanted to take them!" And so they fought and he killed dagoth ur. However dagoth ur had already used the tools so he could revive himself later (still learning his powers).

So in dagoth ur's mind, he feels betrayed by nerevar because he was doing what he asked, protecting the tools from anyone who would use them, and it turns out the tribunal wanted to use them (dagoth ur may have learned of their intentions when he used the heart and gained his godly powers).

The tribunal didn't turn on nerevar until after, as once dagoth ur was dispatched, he consulted with Azura who told him they should never use the tools. When he told the tribunal that, they turned on him, them also likely "one ringed" like dagoth ur was, the draw of the heart was too much.

[Nebgama]

High counselor is the 2IC that does not mean slave it means the go to guy to talk with about diplomatic evaluation and decision making.

Nerevar being the General is a tough role, the general needs someone to bounce their decision making with, like Indoril would run many of his desions past Voyran first just to make sure that he is thinking clearly because 2 minds are better than one.

Voyran would also be the one who brings the General information that they might not be aware of or that they might miss, they are also there to help the General make informed decisions.

[stone.fire.smoke]

There was no real motivation to become Dagoth Ur. Voryn's use of the tools while investigating the heart led more to his transformation than any willful desire, as he would have had only a small understanding of the heart's power at that point. He is actually a victim in this story, of his own curiosity and the Tribunal's treachery.

Dagoth was one of, if not the most knowledgeable enchanter of Resdayn, he likely was simply initially curious about the tools when left to guard them. He and Nerevar had slain the Dwemer king and witnessed the disappearance of the Dwemer, so they understood some of the gravity of what the tools and the heart's potential were.

Nerevar was severely wounded in the final battle and told Dagoth to guard the tools while he was taken back to his primary councilors. It shouldn't be missed that all his councilors represented a part of each of the factions that formed the political alliance created to stop the Dwemer. While they may not have actively murdered Nerevar, they also didn't take any measures to heal him. "Almsivi" didn't have any access to the tools or heart until after Nerevar had passed and they went to investigate the chamber. Then when they attempted to examine the tools and heart, Dagoth tried to stop them.

It is very likely that he suspected something amiss as Nerevar was not with them and they were trying to get to the heart and tools (which he and Nerevar had already agreed were very dangerous). Obviously Dagoth had been doing some testing with the tools and going over whatever Kragenac's notes were (he was an enchanter after all). Almsivi then noticed something was wrong with Dagoth and attacked him to secure the tools. Dagoth was "killed" and then rose later as Dagoth Ur.

[Nebgama]

Yeah i agree with the above all these people messing with the heart don't know anything. They know its powerful but not exactly how.

I have been of the opinion for a while that Dagoth is possessed by it rather than intentionally tapping into it.

Like he was curious by it initially and then did stuff to it, it then latched onto him and took him over as a host.

its also like, he got told to guard the heart so if you sitting in there for ages and twiddling your thumbs then curiosity killed the cat. he got nothing else to do.

[Nebgama]

Vivec and the other two, they know a little more knowledge about it because they can control their consumption of the heart, they worked out just the right amount to drink clearly.

[stone.fire.smoke]

Don't forget he didn't fully become "Dagoth Ur" until after he was attacked and murdered by people that at the very least he thought were his allies.

Being raised back to life, finding out your friend died under strange circumstances by his own advisors, knowing your former allies set themselves up as gods over people you used to care about and knowing they sent an army to destroy your home, probably didn't do much for his mental state either.

[Nebgama]

Hard to say that is one account but like most parts of the lore there is several explanations.

Either way i don't think that Varyon would of been that muscly and had chip fingers. The heart transfigured his body.

its also hard to discern between real events and parables so the death could be just a parable to explain in a conscious way the transformation from one being to another.

he might not of actually died it could be a spiritual death in a parable sense. Like really he messed with the heart and it changed him. But lesser mortals need something to conceptualize in their heads.

[psychotron666]

Originally posted by stone.fire.smoke:

Don't forget he didn't fully become "Dagoth Ur" until after he was attacked and murdered by people that at the very least he thought were his allies.

Being raised back to life, finding out your friend died under strange circumstances by his own advisors, knowing your former allies set themselves up as gods over people you used to care about and knowing they sent an army to destroy your home, probably didn't do much for his mental state either.

Nerevar was the one who killed him, that's why he's so upset.

Dagoth gares message to the nerevarine from dagoth ur:

"Lord Dagoth gives me these words to say to you, so you may give them thought. 'Once we were friends and brothers, Lord Nerevar, in peace and in war. Yet beneath Red Mountain, you struck me down as I guarded the treasure you bound me by oath to defend. But, remembering our old friendship, I would forgive you, and raise you high in my service.'

And dagoth ur dialog if you tell him you are nerevar reborn:

"That is bitter. The gods and fates are cruel. I served you faithfully once, Lord Nerevar, and you repaid me with death. I hope this time it will be you who pays for your faithlessness."

My belief is he was already driven mad and justifying anyone wanting to take them including nerevar himself was a betrayal to his oath. Kinda like Bilbo thinking that Gandalf was trying to steal the ring from him when he was merely trying to protect him from it.

[Nebgama]

Yeah and look how that turned out that one item mad everyone mad.

its the same concept here. the heart is making everyone around it mad. Just because Dagoth ur is sayin those things does not mean its real. it could be the heart talking.

[Nebgama]

We know most of Dagoth ur's dialog is questionable, he is trying to make you think you are not Nerevarine.

Dagoth is also trying to tell you are beneath him as the Nervarine

if that is the heart talking through Dagoth then its true because Indoril is below Lorkan. But above voryan Dagoth.

[Nebgama]

Dagoth get afflicted by the heart he then goes on a mission to build a fake Numidim its seen as fake but as long as it has all the right things in place it will work.

Lorkan's heart clearly has a brain because it know that it want to take over someone.

Lorkan is probably trying to dragon break back to his body or do something that will get him out of being a head in a jar for millions of years.

he will say anything to stop the chosen one from fking up the game plan.

or maybe fake numidium is going to be the new artificial body for Lorkan's heart who knows. But the heart needs to posses someone to build it. Dagoth comes along and the rest is history.

[stone.fire.smoke]

Nerevar was the one who killed him, that's why he's so upset.

Dagoth gares message to the nerevarine from dagoth ur:

"Lord Dagoth gives me these words to say to you, so you may give them thought. 'Once we were friends and brothers, Lord Nerevar, in peace and in war. Yet beneath Red Mountain, you struck me down as I guarded the treasure you bound me by oath to defend. But, remembering our old friendship, I would forgive you, and raise you high in my service.'

And dagoth ur dialog if you tell him you are nerevar reborn:

"That is bitter. The gods and fates are cruel. I served you faithfully once, Lord Nerevar, and you repaid me with death. I hope this time it will be you who pays for your faithlessness."

[/quote]


Not necessarily, Dagoth is paranoid and more than a bit insane; blaming Nerevar for his death is reasonable because had they destroyed the items, none of the later events would have occurred. It is very possible it is a psychological ploy to paint himself as a mere victim, knowing that the accounts of the battle and death of Nerevar are contradictory and that as the Neraverine your memories of the event are murky at best. He wants you to bring the tools to him and be unsure of who the real enemy and ally is.

Besides if Nerevar had slain Dagoth what would have been the point of leaving the tools and going to confer with your advisors? you would have already slain the one guy telling you not to use them, what possible advice would you have gotten from the tribunal?

[Nebgama]

I doubt Nerv killed Voyboy they loved each other in a manly comradeship pat each others butts after a touchdown

[Nebgama]

Corpus

"The infection was created by Dagoth Ur and spread by contact with a corprus beast or by a specific curse. It destroys the mind of the sufferer and grotesquely deforms the body"

Sounds like something that happened to Voyboy.

voyboy is the first contagion it destroyed his mind and made him mad (possessed) it also altered his body he is oversize like a giant and has extreme long fingers and overly muscly. i doubt he was like this before he was changed.

you need a need a contagion to start the process so Daggy was the first of his kind.

Nerv is also immune.

Nerv 2.0 is doing Nerve 1.0 things the whole game
Voy 2.0 is nothing like Voy 1.0 and is different.