Nerevarine vs. Dragonborn

[armageddon]

If they fought who do you think would win?

[Nebgama]

My speculation further into how it is going down.

Imo CHIM is Daedric the most time we see CHIM is on the Dadric side of the board all the symbols, writtings and text look Daedric like in nature. The six ways of walking is about how Daedra use CHIM and its about being immortal.

Tiber Septim used CHIM at the start of the Septim Lineage causing a generational curse at the same time, unaware.

half way through the bloodllne it brought in demons that took over the Lineage because of all the Chimming Kartariah being a Chimer. We see it ending with the abandoned son Martin about to take the throne but he gets killed from Transforming ending the Septim Empire.

Akatosh abolished the family tree because it was corrupted since Katariah's offspring.

Although we don't know this fully because we get parables and fables and religion instead.

Yes also Chimer are demons in the flesh imo. and yes that means we are a resurrected demon.

and yes we can take the face value of CHIM being love and all the other surface bs but realistically the first being to CHIM was on the Daedric side of the game board.

it is not also that black and white i truly think that the Good Daedra are good demons. Meaning that Nerevarine is good. But then who knows because the Chimer stole a whole land mass and took it over.

[Nebgama]

Nah who am i kidding the good Daedra are not good but i want to believe in a redemption story.

I think some of the time its not that black and white and Nerveraine is a redemption story about saving the world. Morrowind at least.

Good Daedra to a bunch of followers are just that, since Velothi they are believers because one of the Daedra spoke to Veloth in his dreams and illuminated him.

it then spawns a whole religion over centuries and a Systematic faith.

The good Daedra have done some good things so i guess when we look at the evil signs of Daedra then we are looking from Anu's lens when we see these things. Maybe if we look through Pads lens then it will look much different.

the lore is biased to telling from Anu's side in this sense. like we could be looking in the prism upside down and really all the non daedra are bad but we are shaped to think they are good.

[ltloxA]

Being a dragonborn comes with more innate power than being the Nerevarine, however, if we compare specifically against the Last Dragonborn, the Nerevarine existed at a "more powerful time". (parabolic kalpa, or whatever theory you prefer)

I think it comes down to what the Nerevarine focused on. If they were a typical warrior, then I think Dragonborn is stronger. If they're a mage, then I think their quasi-immortality means they could get extremely powerful.

We shouldn't dismiss the Dragonborns arcane resources, with the black books and all, but the Nerevarine, would also have the three main story artifacts, so...yeah.

Mage Nerevarine>any Last Dragonborn>other Nerevarines

[ltloxA]

Originally posted by Nebgama:

Nah who am i kidding the good Daedra are not good but i want to believe in a redemption story.

I think some of the time its not that black and white and Nerveraine is a redemption story about saving the world. Morrowind at least.

Good Daedra to a bunch of followers are just that, since Velothi they are believers because one of the Daedra spoke to Veloth in his dreams and illuminated him.

it then spawns a whole religion over centuries and a Systematic faith.

The good Daedra have done some good things so i guess when we look at the evil signs of Daedra then we are looking from Anu's lens when we see these things. Maybe if we look through Pads lens then it will look much different.

the lore is biased to telling from Anu's side in this sense. like we could be looking in the prism upside down and really all the non daedra are bad but we are shaped to think they are good.

The good Daedra have:
1)Provided important lessons, and also direct help.
2)Shaped society according to their own, sometimes pragmatic, sometimes questionable, ideals.
3)Committed unspeakable acts when their will is not met.
They are not that different from old testament God, just more alien to us who have lived a different world.

During the events of TES:III Azura seems quite forgiving towards the tribunal and Dunmer society at large, so similarly to all the other ways in which you are basically playing as Jesus, it would seem that at least she, but perhaps the others as well, are open to a less cruel relationship after you clear some things up, although this may just be a temporary stunt to win the people back over.

[Morgan Fun Gamer]

nerevarine

[Valden21]

Originally posted by Nebgama:

Pelagius Septim III and Katariah Ra'Athim took over the throne, Pelegius became Emperor Pelagius Septim III.

Pelgius put the crown on and fainted, they propped him up in the throne so ppl would not notice that something was wrong, and was inflicted with illness like rabies or something i cannot recall exactly without looking it up. but he started trying to bite people. He got put in an asylum and then died.

Katariah had Cassynder Septim while Pelgius was in the Asylum and Cassynder took over the throne. Katariah had another partner after Pelgius died called Gallivere Lariat who was a Nord Nobleman.

Kat and Galli had a kid and called it Uriel Septim IV So they are continuing the Speptim name but none of them are true Septim.

Cassaynder Septim got sick and stepped down from the throne handing it over to Uriel Septim IV

Uriel Septim IV was actually born Uriel Lariat but they changed his name to Spetim.

Cassaynder Septim was the last real blood Septim.

So yeah they stole the name at Katariah all the Septims after that are not real Septims. They are in the family through marital ties but they are not Septim blood.

Cephorus Septim II was voted in and his cosuins where Uriel Septim IV and Andorak Septim, Cephorus i am not sure if we know his parents but cousins does not mean anything obvious those are Lariat side of the line.

To know if Cephorus is true blood then you would need to know who his parents are and the info i see say he is Nord noblemen background so its probably still Lariat.

EIther way i don't think by the time Uriel VII comes then we are still in the Septim bloodline. He has the name but not the blood.

This was all explained in another thread, AND on the UESP website. Uriel Septim IS a member of the Septim bloodline. The bloodline diverged at Uriel Lariat, because he was only a cousin to the main bloodline; Uriel Septim's great-great-grandfather being crowned Emperor, instead of Uriel Lariat's son Andorak, was actually a correction in the line of succession, not a divergence. How many more times must this be explained? It's a tangent to the main discussion anyway.

I still feel that the question of who would win is irrelevant. The Neravarine and the Last Dragonborn are extremely unlikely to meet each other, and even if they DID meet, they don't really have a reason to fight.

[Nebgama]

The fact is you don't know that Cephorus II is actually a Tiber by blood. Know one knows. Except for the ppl writing the history books which can easily be biased by an Empire Historian, and its clear that they omitted information like Cephos's blood tie or non existent blood tie.

- We don't know his parents you need to know his parents to know, cousin does not automatically mean bloodline because you can be cousins to someone through marriage ties.

What we do know:

- He was VOTED in by a majority vote
- He is the first Emperor to be non Breton
- He has no ties to Highrock
- He is described as a distant cousin to the Septim lineage
- he is Nord
- guess who else is cousins of the Septim linage the Lariat's also Nord

This tells us a few things and also lets us make an informed speculation.

One he has no soild ties that we can connect to the Bloodline and it seems very clear that it is a positive feedback loop meaning that he is most likely still Lariat. Andorak faced lots of revolt and push back and it was a clear cut over throw of the throne. The lariat's most likely came in and took it over.

Either way the bloodline stopped at Kat. Well her son Uriel Lariat which they rename Uriel Septim IV. He is not blood.

So basically the only real account we can make is that Kat deviated the line with a Lariat and then the Lariat's stole it from her offspring with Cepho's II being voted in.

This information also tells us that the Nords of Skyrim are not the true ppl of that land either if you look further into it.

And yes when we are taliking about Dargon born vs Neverane then this is all apart of it because it means that since Kat all the dragon borns are fake except for the one that stood down from being sick.

They can do the physical works but because they don't have the blood then they are not in a true dragonbloods full power.

[Valden21]

Originally posted by Nebgama:

And yes when we are taliking about Dargon born vs Neverane then this is all apart of it because it means that since Kat all the dragon borns are fake except for the one that stood down from being sick.

Are you aware that the Septim bloodline haven't been the only Dragonborns in the setting's history? Miraak, St. Alessia, and Reman Cyrodiil I were all Dragonborn, all of them were from different bloodlines, and there's nothing to link them to Tiber Septim. The same thing can be said for the Last Dragonborn, as the canon for the Last Dragonborn's identity won't be revealed until the next game, so your argument has little to no evidence to support it. Therefore, it IS a tangent, despite what you say. Why bother arguing about it? It's useless to do so.

[Nebgama]

if you want to go that far back then we can argue the whole Septim line is bull because its a proclamation event that spearheads Tiber Septim's recovery of the Amulet from a Reyman Tomb and his proclamation as the new Emperor.

The proclamation of a king is usually when a new king takes the throne but also in a common sense proclamation just means announcing something to a mass of people in that common sense it does not validate anything its just making a statment.

All the Reyman got killed by dark brotherhood. Tiber steps in and takes the throne the only thing is that he can wear the amulet which means that he should be true dragonborn we also see right at the end of the line with vII wearing it also which means everything we know about the amulet is questionable.

The thing is that is the history that we have been told where there could be discrepancy, they say the amulet won't wear on a non blood but we don't know what is true vs what we have been told.

The whole Septim line could be BS fake dragons.

It goes further that the amulet has Dragon blood in it so i guess really the amulet could be fake too. Like not fake the real amulet but they infused it with the blood of the reyman corpse form the tomb because they are fake and need the blood for powers.

its the whole reason why they care so much about the stupid amulet, because with out it they don't have any power.

[Valden21]

Originally posted by Nebgama:

if you want to go that far back then we can argue the whole Septim line is bull because its a proclamation event that spearheads Tiber Septim's recovery of the Amulet from a Reyman Tomb and his proclamation as the new Emperor.

The proclamation of a king is usually when a new king takes the throne but also in a common sense proclamation just means announcing something to a mass of people in that common sense it does not validate anything its just making a statment.

All the Reyman got killed by dark brotherhood. Tiber steps in and takes the throne the only thing is that he can wear the amulet which means that he should be true dragonborn we also see right at the end of the line with vII wearing it also which means everything we know about the amulet is questionable.

The thing is that is the history that we have been told where there could be discrepancy, they say the amulet won't wear on a non blood but we don't know what is true vs what we have been told.

The whole Septim line could be BS fake dragons.

It goes further that the amulet has Dragon blood in it so i guess really the amulet could be fake too. Like not fake the real amulet but they infused it with the blood of the reyman corpse form the tomb because they are fake and need the blood for powers.

its the whole reason why they care so much about the stupid amulet, because with out it they don't have any power.

This whole line of argument of yours about Uriel Septim VII not being a true Septim is headcanon, at best. The thing about headcanon is that it's okay to discuss as long as you acknowledge it as headcanon. But there's a difference between headcanon and ACTUAL canon, and that difference is important. What I'm about to say is something I've said before, but it bears repeating; We're not the ones who decide canon; the game's writers do that. We can make requests, and we can make suggestions, but that's all we can do. Whether or not something should be canon is the writers' decision, and that's how it should be.

With that said, I stand by my original statement: There's nothing to indicate that the Neravarine and the Last Dragonborn would ever meet, let alone fight each other. That's where I'm going to leave this, as I see where this discussion is going.

[Boshiken]

Originally posted by Valden21:

Originally posted by Nebgama:

if you want to go that far back then we can argue the whole Septim line is bull because its a proclamation event that spearheads Tiber Septim's recovery of the Amulet from a Reyman Tomb and his proclamation as the new Emperor.

The proclamation of a king is usually when a new king takes the throne but also in a common sense proclamation just means announcing something to a mass of people in that common sense it does not validate anything its just making a statment.

All the Reyman got killed by dark brotherhood. Tiber steps in and takes the throne the only thing is that he can wear the amulet which means that he should be true dragonborn we also see right at the end of the line with vII wearing it also which means everything we know about the amulet is questionable.

The thing is that is the history that we have been told where there could be discrepancy, they say the amulet won't wear on a non blood but we don't know what is true vs what we have been told.

The whole Septim line could be BS fake dragons.

It goes further that the amulet has Dragon blood in it so i guess really the amulet could be fake too. Like not fake the real amulet but they infused it with the blood of the reyman corpse form the tomb because they are fake and need the blood for powers.

its the whole reason why they care so much about the stupid amulet, because with out it they don't have any power.

This whole line of argument of yours about Uriel Septim VII not being a true Septim is headcanon, at best. The thing about headcanon is that it's okay to discuss as long as you acknowledge it as headcanon. But there's a difference between headcanon and ACTUAL canon, and that difference is important. What I'm about to say is something I've said before, but it bears repeating; We're not the ones who decide canon; the game's writers do that. We can make requests, and we can make suggestions, but that's all we can do. Whether or not something should be canon is the writers' decision, and that's how it should be.

With that said, I stand by my original statement: There's nothing to indicate that the Neravarine and the Last Dragonborn would ever meet, let alone fight each other. That's where I'm going to leave this, as I see where this discussion is going.

yeah - why is this guy still blubbering - about what he thinks

everything he is blubbering - is wrong

he does - not read nor understand the lore

[Nebgama]

Originally posted by Valden21:

This whole line of argument of yours about Uriel Septim VII not being a true Septim is headcanon, at best. The thing about headcanon is that it's okay to discuss as long as you acknowledge it as headcanon. But there's a difference between headcanon and ACTUAL canon, and that difference is important. What I'm about to say is something I've said before, but it bears repeating; We're not the ones who decide canon; the game's writers do that. We can make requests, and we can make suggestions, but that's all we can do. Whether or not something should be canon is the writers' decision, and that's how it should be.

With that said, I stand by my original statement: There's nothing to indicate that the Neravarine and the Last Dragonborn would ever meet, let alone fight each other. That's where I'm going to leave this, as I see where this discussion is going.

Its not head cannon its written in books in the game or other games or there is prerequisite texts that allow us to know these things.

Not only is the following a good baseline but there is several other books lore contexts but that is digging around a lot to find.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Brief_History_of_the_Empire

[Boshiken]

as far as i read and understand the lore:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Solstheim

War with the Northern Men:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vivec

Nerevarine would win - if they ever met.
Nerevar with his Friends - always defeated the Norths.

And Dragonborn has been defeated by his own Norths.
Separating Solstheim from Morrowind - where Norths even been killed by Vulcano Ash.

[Rex Bellator]

Posts like this are the TES equivalent of schoolyard debates on whether Superman can beat Thor. At the end of the day they are fictional characters and can do whatever the writers decide they can do, and even if you think you found some aspect of lore that would support one contestant over another, lore is only as strong as the plot necessary for any particular character to overcome.

[Boshiken]

Originally posted by Rex Bellator:

Posts like this are the TES equivalent of schoolyard debates on whether Superman can beat Thor. At the end of the day they are fictional characters and can do whatever the writers decide they can do, and even if you think you found some aspect of lore that would support one contestant over another, lore is only as strong as the plot necessary for any particular character to overcome.

so - the only source is lore
why - should the writers contradict their own writings

also - you just use schoolyard comparison
in lore - there is no Thor - and the North are just brutal invaders who lost

but - maybe you should think about why USA
is - close to a Civil War