Nerevarine vs. Dragonborn

[armageddon]

If they fought who do you think would win?

[psychotron666]

Valden21 の投稿を引用：

theo の投稿を引用：

Martin defeated Dagon not just through his dragonborn powers, but by destroying the Amulet of Kings and becoming avatar of Akatosh

Martin wan't that kind of Dragonborn. There are two definitions of "Dragonborn". The first definition is theological, and it means a mortal with a dragon's soul. Effectively, a dragon in a mortal's body. Of all the Septims, only Tiber Septim matched that definition. That's canon lore.

The second definition is purely a political one meant to provide dynastic continuity, and it refers to Tiber Septim's descendants; that's the definition that applies to Martin. The reason he was able to break the Amulet was because of the covenant that was made when Alessia died, back during the First Era. That covenant bound the Aedra to protect Tamriel from the Daedra as long as the person who sat on the imperial throne was either a Dragonborn, or somebody descended from a Dragonborn. That's also canon lore.

Incorrect. They are the same type of dragonborn, and it's not Tiber septim's descendants, it's alessias descendents. The only difference is on where the blessing comes from, either akatosh or kynareth (they are both aedra with similar powers though).

The greybeards even acknowledged previous dragonborns as one and the same as the last dragonborn.

And remember the guards "I don't remember Tiber septim absorbing dragon souls", "that's because there wasn't dragons then, idiot!".

Any dragonborn from Alessia to Martin can absorb dragon souls if they have the opportunity to do so.

Miraak even confirms they are one in the same when he says that dragonborn by their very nature seek to dominate others, which is why typically dragonborn have become people in positions of power like kings and emperors, because they are attracted to it like moths to flames. He confirms that dragonborn leaders over the Millenia are the same as himself and the last dragonborn.

Mankar camoran was also a dragonborn, hence why he was able to wear the amulet of Kings. Also in his commentaries of the mysterium xarxes, he talks about how he mediates on old lore and after a few days was able to breathe fire. This is the same as the greybeards giving the last dragonborn their knowledge of a dragon shout and the ldb able to learn it very quickly instead of over many years compared to regular people.

From mysterium xarxes commentaries volume 1: "Roaring I wandered until I grew hoarse with the gospel. I had read the mysteries of Lord Dagon and feeling anew went mad with the overflow. My words found no purchase until I became hidden. These were not words for the common of Tamriel, whose clergy long ago feigned the very existence of the Dawn. Learn from my mistake; know that humility was Mankar Camoran's original wisdom. Come slow, and bring four keys.

Offering myself to that daybreak allowed the girdle of grace to contain me. When my voice returned, it spoke with another tongue. After three nights I could speak fire."

Also Tiber septim/wulfarth (depending what history of Tiber septim you believe) was able to learn dragon shouts much quicker than regular people could, just like the last dragonborn. The greybeards even comment on it when the ldb learns his first shout, saying something along the lines of "I didn't believe the legends of the dragonborn learning shouts so quickly was true " - this right after they tell you about Tiber septim coming to them and being declared dragonborn.

[theo]

Yeah in the context of Oblivion dragonborn is someone who can wear the Amulet of Kings. Apparently it magically slips off anyone who isn't dragonborn. And apparently dragon blood is inherited, although correct me if I'm wrong, Septim dynasty at the end of the 3rd era doesn't even come from Tiber Septim directly.

What is even a dragon soul, and how can a human being possess it - this is unclear and speculative, and only came up in Skyrim I think. And this isn't even relevant imo.
What's important is that some humans have these dragonborn powers, and not only the descendants of Septims or Remans it seems. Which again opens interesting possibilities

[psychotron666]

theo の投稿を引用：

Yeah in the context of Oblivion dragonborn is someone who can wear the Amulet of Kings. Apparently it magically slips off anyone who isn't dragonborn. And apparently dragon blood is inherited, although correct me if I'm wrong, Septim dynasty at the end of the 3rd era doesn't even come from Tiber Septim directly.

What is even a dragon soul, and how can a human being possess it - this is unclear and speculative, and only came up in Skyrim I think. And this isn't even relevant imo.
What's important is that some humans have these dragonborn powers, and not only the descendants of Septims or Remans it seems. Which again opens interesting possibilities

Yeah Tiber septim had no relation to Alessia, yet was able to wear the amulet of Kings and relight the dragon fires. And he learns dragon shouts as easily as a Skyrim dragonborn. He either was born with this power, or he stole the dragon blood from his king cuchlecain depending which story you believe.

And Uriel septim didn't actually have any blood relation to Tiber septim either, be was descended from Uriel septim IV, who was descended from katariah and gallivere lariat, whom neither had relations to Tiber septim. All that mattered for relighting the dragon fires was being a dragon born, nothing to do with the descendants of alessia or Tiber septim.
If the last dragonborn was around during the time of oblivion, he too could have relight the fires, so could mankar camoran if he wanted to (which of course he didn't).

Wulfarth also was a dragonborn not related to Alessia or septims, and proves that anyone can be born as a dragonborn, there's no specific bloodline required.

[Nebgama]

CHIM could be the reason that everything is happening all the wars in the Arena are because of it, Martin is CHIM just as much as Dagoth is CHIM and Nerveraine is also CHIM all these figures are doing prolific things in their own minds and writing their selves into the history books. CHIM is shaping reality.

Daedra definitely know CHIM because they use it the most and many ppl who where taught CHIM were done so because of a Daedra telling them.

The first one to CHIM that i know of was Lorkan and that is the Daedra side of the tree he also taught everyone else initially how to use it that knows. But maybe Akatosh used it first because Recorded History starts from a dragon break.

edit na actually Akatosh used it second

We don't really think this because its not normal to think like this but it makes sense. CHIM wiped whole races from the gameboard and its killed Gods and Demigods.

idk we don't really know that much about it other than powerful things that have happens are because of it.

Dragons breaks are also possibly CHIM

Mundus is inside a Vesica Piscis where Akatosh is too the god of dragon breaks he could be CHIMing to make those breaks or the people activing the breaks are using CHIM and is going outside of the piscis to get the creation power and then do stuff with it inside.

side note Elder scrolls universe is inside a Vagina spiritually. No wonder its a crazy world. The VP is also a Eyeball as well. Azura uses Magnus to watch stuff from Oblvion imo which Magnus is an Eyeball. So she could be using CHIM to go outside the VP to look through the VP as a EYE.

There is levels too obviously so lots of this stuff is probably unconscious unknowing a lot of the time. Like Martin smashing the amulet probably didn't know exactly what he was doing he just did it.

Somebody like Azura or VIvec know full well what they are doing on the other hand.

[Valden21]

psychotron666 の投稿を引用：

And Uriel septim didn't actually have any blood relation to Tiber septim either, be was descended from Uriel septim IV, who was descended from katariah and gallivere lariat, whom neither had relations to Tiber septim.

He actually did have a blood relation to Tiber Septim, if you read the available information on the Septim bloodline. According to UESP's entry on the Septim Dynasty, Uriel IV was despised by the Elder Council due to actually being a cousin of the Septim line, not a direct son. So after that emperor died, the Elder Council disinherited his son and replaced him with Cephorus Septim II, who WAS a direct descendant of that bloodline. The Septim family tree on UESP shows Uriel Septim's great-great-grandfather as being Cephorus II, through Uriel V. Here's the link: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Septim_Dynasty

[Nebgama]

CHIMing inside the VP sounds fair and a VP is also about fertility so CHIM is also potentially semen in a spiritual sense because it births action inside the VP

[Nebgama]

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Septim_Dynasty

The Septim bloodline has Katariah Ra'Athim in the linage as a ruler of the Empire about half way through the bloodline. Chimer born.

After her its probaby a whole line of people that are not true heirs to the throne they stole the septim name. They could also be Daedra and fits into what i said earlier Uriel vII is maybe a deadra instead and a fake dragon born because he went to oblivion which does not make sense really he should of just died.

Martin his dad vII and everyone backwards to Katariah are probably fakes. idk hard to say but the dots are there.

uriel vII wears the amulet and prances around because the Daedra love their chimming, he probably looks in the mirror with nothing but the amulet on and loves himself and his reflection when no one is around.

Martin smashing the amulet is all the repressed anger coming out because his dad abandoned him for the amulet and vII loved the amulet more than Martin. Martin went his whole life not knowing and then eventually found out that his dad had a chim amulet and loved it more than him.

Maybe Martin smashing the Amulet and martin potentially being fake blood then Akatosh came and devoured Martin while defeating the other guy. Because the whole situation was messy from to much chimming, and to think Martin was devoted follower of Akatosh his whole life.

For example Martin would not even know if he is real dragonborn or not becuase he only just found out about his dad yesterday.

[psychotron666]

Katariah the full blooded dark elf/chimer married Pelagius, but then he was killed. She remarried Lariat and gave birth to Uriel, who they have the name septim because his mother was married into the septim name, but has no blood relation.

[Nebgama]

white man dark man relations just like real life the white man came to conquer but they chimmed in a lot of the dark natives too.

[armageddon]

I'm putting my money on Dragonborn who defeated Alduin.

[The Flying Rodent]

Lore wise: probably the Dragonborn, as it’s supposed to have all the divine malarkey supporting it in addition to being effectively immortal. The Nerevarine meanwhile in theory can just be a useful idiot roped into service by Azura to do her bidding, and while they’re ‘immune to death’ thanks to Corprus, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re ensured a high quality of life.

Gameplay wise: Dragonborn can ride a dragon in circles around a small hill if they’re lucky. The Nerevarine can launch fireballs with an explosion radius of a small town , while jumping over said hill. Pretty obvious whose gonna win that contest, lol.

[Dryspace]

Nebgama の投稿を引用：

white man dark man relations just like real life the white man came to conquer but they chimmed in a lot of the dark natives too.

Yes, and dark man, white relations as in real life.

[Valden21]

Nebgama の投稿を引用：

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Septim_Dynasty

The Septim bloodline has Katariah Ra'Athim in the linage as a ruler of the Empire about half way through the bloodline. Chimer born.

After her its probaby a whole line of people that are not true heirs to the throne they stole the septim name. They could also be Daedra and fits into what i said earlier Uriel vII is maybe a deadra instead and a fake dragon born because he went to oblivion which does not make sense really he should of just died.

Martin his dad vII and everyone backwards to Katariah are probably fakes. idk hard to say but the dots are there.

Did you read the entire entry, or just look at the family tree itself? The entry clearly says that Uriel Lariat, the emperor before Uriel Septim VII's great-great-grandfather Cephorus II, was a cousin to the Imperial line, at best. His place in the Imperial succession was only through adoption. After e died, the Elder Council disinherited his son, and then brought in Cephorus II as the Emperor. The reason why they did this was because Cephorus II had a direct familial connection to the Imperial bloodline that Uriel Lariat did. This is described in the in-game book A Brief History of the Empire, vol. 3; specifically, it's in the third and fourth paragraphs.

[Nebgama]

Pelagius Septim III and Katariah Ra'Athim took over the throne, Pelegius became Emperor Pelagius Septim III.

Pelgius put the crown on and fainted, they propped him up in the throne so ppl would not notice that something was wrong, and was inflicted with illness like rabies or something i cannot recall exactly without looking it up. but he started trying to bite people. He got put in an asylum and then died.

Katariah had Cassynder Septim while Pelgius was in the Asylum and Cassynder took over the throne. Katariah had another partner after Pelgius died called Gallivere Lariat who was a Nord Nobleman.

Kat and Galli had a kid and called it Uriel Septim IV So they are continuing the Speptim name but none of them are true Septim.

Cassaynder Septim got sick and stepped down from the throne handing it over to Uriel Septim IV

Uriel Septim IV was actually born Uriel Lariat but they changed his name to Spetim.

Cassaynder Septim was the last real blood Septim.

So yeah they stole the name at Katariah all the Septims after that are not real Septims. They are in the family through marital ties but they are not Septim blood.

Cephorus Septim II was voted in and his cosuins where Uriel Septim IV and Andorak Septim, Cephorus i am not sure if we know his parents but cousins does not mean anything obvious those are Lariat side of the line.

To know if Cephorus is true blood then you would need to know who his parents are and the info i see say he is Nord noblemen background so its probably still Lariat.

EIther way i don't think by the time Uriel VII comes then we are still in the Septim bloodline. He has the name but not the blood.

[Nebgama]

The dragonborn are not immortal either its already been mentioned as an argument. Clearly the Septim line has had many deaths before Katariah.