I found that damn Dwemer puzzle box!

[Zenith]

But after much searching I had to use the UESP to find it. It still felt satisfying considering how long I spent looking for it.

But it got me thinking how hard this game would have been back at release when internet help wasn't just a click away.

It's also a bit ironic that the games have become super easy with the quest marker when internet help pages are more prevalent than ever.

[Rydychyn]

I remember back around 2003 when I first attempted that quest, I played for hours before bothering to go over there. Spent about 5 hours inside looking for it. I found it eventually.

And yes, I hate the quest markers in Oblivion/Skyrim.

[Brandybuck]

Good example of why there are quest markers. Just because someone doesn't want to spend five hours looking for a tiny rust colored cube in a rust colored dungeon of moderate size does NOT meant they are stupid, filthy, casual, dumb, or whatever.

p.s. If the wiki is not hand-holding, then I don't know what the hell is.

[Zenith]

Origineel geplaatst door Brandybuck:

Good example of why there are quest markers. Just because someone doesn't want to spend five hours looking for a tiny rust colored cube in a rust colored dungeon of moderate size does NOT meant they are stupid, filthy, casual, dumb, or whatever.

p.s. If the wiki is not hand-holding, then I don't know what the hell is.

One overly difficult quest in Morrowind doesn't mean that quest markers win by default or are inherently better game design. They could have made this quest easier without quest markers by giving hints or making the puzzle box bigger, etc. But as a whole I'd much rather have a difficult game that can challenge me than something that takes no thought. If this quest was in Skyrim it would be just another mindless and forgettable act of following a marker. I don't want that.

The dewmer puzzle box may be the extreme in Morrowind but the extreme in Skyrim is having the quest marker not only hover above the dungeon or city you want to go but also on the actual person or artifact which most people find so insulting.

[Brandybuck]

You do know, don't you, that you can trivially turn off quest markers?

[Zenith]

Origineel geplaatst door Brandybuck:

You do know, don't you, that you can trivially turn off quest markers?

The problem is that the game was designed with quest markers in mind. The journal doesn't give enough information, the quests send you literally all over the world and the map doesn't even have roads because who needs a map with roads when you've got a quest marker right?

[Siziol]

shoulda used my guide man. I've got pictures directing you right to it. :shameless plug:

The Dwemer box is definitely on the far end of the difficulty scale. Especially with it being the first real quest on the main quest line. The player is not used to Dwemer structures and it sets a precedence for finding small items that it doesn't do for pretty much the rest of the game.

[Brandybuck]

Origineel geplaatst door Khyron:

Origineel geplaatst door Brandybuck:

You do know, don't you, that you can trivially turn off quest markers?

The problem is that the game was designed with quest markers in mind. The journal doesn't give enough information, the quests send you literally all over the world and the map doesn't even have roads because who needs a map with roads when you've got a quest marker right?

You still have a map. The world lore allows for the existence of maps. Even Morrowind had a map. All you need to do is pretend that the quest giver marked it down on your map. Tada! You don't have to see the arrow in your HUD, and the map tells you where it is in the world. Just avoid the local map and you're fine.

Really, this isn't the end of the world.

[Zenith]

Origineel geplaatst door Brandybuck:

Origineel geplaatst door Khyron:

The problem is that the game was designed with quest markers in mind. The journal doesn't give enough information, the quests send you literally all over the world and the map doesn't even have roads because who needs a map with roads when you've got a quest marker right?

You still have a map. The world lore allows for the existence of maps. Even Morrowind had a map. All you need to do is pretend that the quest giver marked it down on your map. Tada! You don't have to see the arrow in your HUD, and the map tells you where it is in the world. Just avoid the local map and you're fine.

Really, this isn't the end of the world.

If I ever try Skyrim again I'll give that a shot.

[Brandybuck]

Origineel geplaatst door Khyron:

If I ever try Skyrim again I'll give that a shot.

I'm currently playing Oblivion, and I'm not sure how to turn off quest markers there. But what I do is simply set a different quest to be my active quest (collecting shadowbanish wine, for example). Now I don't have to worry about a floating quest marker, but the map is fully usable.

[Rydychyn]

Origineel geplaatst door Brandybuck:

Good example of why there are quest markers. Just because someone doesn't want to spend five hours looking for a tiny rust colored cube in a rust colored dungeon of moderate size does NOT meant they are stupid, filthy, casual, dumb, or whatever.

p.s. If the wiki is not hand-holding, then I don't know what the hell is.

To be honest if you don't want to spend 5 hours exploring then you shouldn't be playing Elder Scrolls. In that scenario it is very tedious, but once you find it once you'll know for future characters.
I'm not saying the quest markers are 'stupid, filthy, casual' etc etc but it definitely kills some immersion.

I've never completed Morrowind's main quest, I get further with each character, but when I find myself using the wiki a lot becuase I'm "lost", I get bored and start over. I don't want external knowledge, I want to do it in-game myself.

For example, the first time I bet you didn't steal that limeware platter in the census office, then you realise you can, so you do. And that game dynamic works in every scenario in Morrowind. (And most game at that.)

The quest marker to me takes some RP out of the RPG.

[Brandybuck]

Origineel geplaatst door THWGN:

For example, the first time I bet you didn't steal that limeware platter in the census office, then you realise you can, so you do. And that game dynamic works in every scenario in Morrowind. (And most game at that.)

The quest marker to me takes some RP out of the RPG.

The RP stands for "roleplaying". Using an exploit to safely steal a limeware platter is not roleplaying. Yeah, I do it, but I don't pretend it's immersion or roleplaying or being in character. It's an exploit, a bug in the game.

[Yarp]

I wondered around that dungeon for hours the first time I played as well.

[Brandybuck]

To be fair, the first time I played it I explored everywhere, got into the lowest level, got stomped on by centurions, fell into lava, etc. I finished and was halfway back to Balmora before I remembered that I was supposed to get this box thingy. At that point it was only about ten minutes to find it. So it's not like I hate exploring, or am not taking this game seriously.

[Rydychyn]

Origineel geplaatst door Brandybuck:

Origineel geplaatst door THWGN:

For example, the first time I bet you didn't steal that limeware platter in the census office, then you realise you can, so you do. And that game dynamic works in every scenario in Morrowind. (And most game at that.)

The quest marker to me takes some RP out of the RPG.

The RP stands for "roleplaying". Using an exploit to safely steal a limeware platter is not roleplaying. Yeah, I do it, but I don't pretend it's immersion or roleplaying or being in character. It's an exploit, a bug in the game.

Touche, but I mostly play characters leaning towards the 'evil' alignment, mostly thieves.

[Sythil]

I just finished this quest, I don't know how long i spent in there, wasn't my first time playing Morrowind Either, found that puzzle box at least twice before, other playthroughs I didnt bother with Main Story.

I used the Super Jump scrolls from that poor fella with the funny hat ,looking EVERYWHERE (I thought), over the bridge of lava, way up high in the ore mine where i found a locked empty chest, yay! and on and on...

Turns out, it was.... well you know where, gah, could have been in and out in 5 minutes. But hey, once i found it, grabbed all the heavy dwemer stuff i could leap frog loot and cast Recall to my super secret loot hidey place (Roof of Fighters Guild, shhh!).

No doubt though, i'll forget it again next time.