The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

Lore. Who is actually killed nerevar?
So this is what i know. Dwemer finds lorkhan heart at red mountain and intends to use it to ascend their race become immortal, neverar unite chimer to stopped this, during red mountain war while dwemer fighting chimer, kagnar tap to lorkhan heart and result to dwemer wiped from existence by wrath of aedra, because they dont like mortal dwelling with immortality. Dagoth ur put in duty to guard lorkhan heart while nerevar consult with alexia,vivec,sotha sil about the heart, when they came back to secure the heart, dagoth ur contamined and become mad refused to hand over the heart. nerevar, vivec,alexia, sotha sil imprisoned dagoth ur, while nevevar is wounded because battle and red mountain war. Vivec sotha sil, alexia, murdered nerevar and user lorkhan heart for themself. Dagoth ur seeing this as act of treason to disobey nerevar last wished to not used the heart. why the tribunal able to tap to lorkhan heart while dwemer fail?
But is this true? There some dialog and text ingame that stated dagoth ur killed nerevar instead, but how? And there other says the tribunal waiting nerevar to died by natural cause/not heal nerevar wounds, in order to use the heart themself.
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Showing 1-15 of 29 comments
Depends on whose "lore" you want to follow. The Great Houses - Tribunal or Ashlanders.
Also a point that is always missed. Almalexia who was Nerevars wife became Vivecs consort after his death. Hmmmmm.
Boshiken (Banned) May 10 @ 2:00am 
Vivec

a Lieutnant from Nerevar

most likely killed Nerevar

you can learn a lot from him
"He is also called the Master of Morrowind."

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vivec

"Vivec's Secret Account

there is evidence of Vivec attesting to possibly having killed the Hortator.
His 36th Sermon, which speaks of the Battle of Red Mountain
forms a hidden message when one takes the first letter of each paragraph,
'Foul Murder'.

him speaking to the eventual murder of Nerevar,
such as when he was teaching Nerevar how to be a ruling king of the world,
declared that he would murder the ruling king time and time again
until he understood Vivec's teachings."

so the Tribunal

that are Nerevars Lieutnants

could use the "Heart of Lorkhan"
to become "False Gods"

Nerevar

was a Chimer like the Tribunal

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nerevar

"suggests Nerevar was once a protector for a merchant caravan,
and he met Almalexia when she was already a ruler
and Vivec was still in the womb.

General Nerevar united the many disparate factions of the Chimer
people and became their Hortator, their collective military leader."

it also seem the Tribunal poissoned him
before Vivec killed him

"Ashlanders believe that the Tribunal, greedy for the power of the Heart,
poisoned a wounded Nerevar so he would not interfere with their plans for the Heart."
Boshiken (Banned) May 10 @ 3:44am 
Originally posted by Lobo de hielo:
Depends on whose "lore" you want to follow. The Great Houses - Tribunal or Ashlanders.
Also a point that is always missed. Almalexia who was Nerevars wife became Vivecs consort after his death. Hmmmmm.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Tribunal:Almalexia

"She seems to be taking her decline of power
(due to being deprived of the Heart of Lorkhan)
rather poorly,"

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vivec

"After eighty eight days of his body laying with Molag Bal,
during which time Molag filled Vivec's feet with Daedra blood,
Vivec's head had returned to assess the situation."

"Horde Mountain"
Last edited by Boshiken; May 10 @ 3:58am
They don't imprison dagoth ur. In both accounts they fight him, in one they kill him and in another he escapes.

After that nerevar is supposedly wounded from the fight. In one account he dies of his wounds, in another he's poisoned by the tribunal. Dagoth ur doesn't see them betray nerevar.

The dwemer were trying to ascend their entire race into one god, the numidium, when they used the tools. They might have been successful, as in one account nerevar used the tools to reverse it (sending the souls back to their ash piles) and in another account they simply failed or miscalculated because kagrenac did it in a moment of desperation.

Dagoth ur and the tribunal used the tools and the heart to simply ascend themselves as gods. Not trying to do the same thing as the dwemer.
Boshiken (Banned) May 10 @ 6:22am 
as mentioned the most likely Source i see is Vivec
although twisted the story for his / her favour

Azura did not want the Creation of new Gods
neither a new Dwemer God nor new Chimer Gods

to use the Tools the Tribunal must have got rid of Nerevar
most likely by weakening him with Poison and Vivec killing him.

additionally to the most likely death i described:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Battle_of_Red_Mountain

1st
the Dwemer wanted to create a new God for themselves
and not ascend their whole race

"Azura confirmed that all that Dagoth Ur said was indeed true
and that the creation of a New God of the Dwemer should be prevented at all costs."

"Nerevar said he saw Kagrenac and all his Dwemer companions at once disappear
from the world. In that instant, Dwemer everywhere disappeared without a trace."

2nd
the Tools were not destroyed
as to security reasoning

"We should preserve these tools in trust for the welfare of the Chimer people.
And who knows, perhaps the Dwemer are not gone forever,
but merely transported to some distant realm,
from which they may some day return to threaten our security once again."

3rd
Nerevar did not use the Tools
but forced them to not use them with Azura

"we all together should swear a solemn oath upon Azura
that the tools would never be used in the profane manner that the Dwemer had intended.
We all readily agreed, and swore solemn oaths at Nerevar's dictation."

4th
Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal learned and used the Tools

"Dagoth Ur seemed to be irrational, insisting that only he could be trusted with the tools,
and then we guessed that he had somehow been affected by his handling of the tools,
but now I feel sure that he had privately learned the powers of the tools,
and had in some confused way decided he must have them for himself."

"Sotha Sil must have studied the tools and divined their mysteries."

"And dedicating ourselves to this vision of a better world,
we made a pilgrimage to Red Mountain and transformed ourselves
with the power of Kagrenac's tools."
Boshiken (Banned) May 10 @ 6:24am 
Originally posted by psychotron666:
They don't imprison dagoth ur. In both accounts they fight him, in one they kill him and in another he escapes.

After that nerevar is supposedly wounded from the fight. In one account he dies of his wounds, in another he's poisoned by the tribunal. Dagoth ur doesn't see them betray nerevar.

The dwemer were trying to ascend their entire race into one god, the numidium, when they used the tools. They might have been successful, as in one account nerevar used the tools to reverse it (sending the souls back to their ash piles) and in another account they simply failed or miscalculated because kagrenac did it in a moment of desperation.

Dagoth ur and the tribunal used the tools and the heart to simply ascend themselves as gods. Not trying to do the same thing as the dwemer.
obviously Dagoth Ur is alive and the Tools, Nerevar is dead and reborn, ...
with facts like these you can already get rid of some unbelievable Sources
Last edited by Boshiken; May 10 @ 6:25am
Originally posted by Boshiken:
Originally posted by psychotron666:
They don't imprison dagoth ur. In both accounts they fight him, in one they kill him and in another he escapes.

After that nerevar is supposedly wounded from the fight. In one account he dies of his wounds, in another he's poisoned by the tribunal. Dagoth ur doesn't see them betray nerevar.

The dwemer were trying to ascend their entire race into one god, the numidium, when they used the tools. They might have been successful, as in one account nerevar used the tools to reverse it (sending the souls back to their ash piles) and in another account they simply failed or miscalculated because kagrenac did it in a moment of desperation.

Dagoth ur and the tribunal used the tools and the heart to simply ascend themselves as gods. Not trying to do the same thing as the dwemer.
obviously Dagoth Ur is alive and the Tools, Nerevar is dead and reborn, ...
with facts like these you can already get rid of some unbelievable Sources

Not necessarily. dagoth ur came back to life through the heart. that's why he vanishes completely when the heart is destroyed but vivec and almalexia don't.
Boshiken (Banned) May 10 @ 6:58am 
Originally posted by psychotron666:
Originally posted by Boshiken:
obviously Dagoth Ur is alive and the Tools, Nerevar is dead and reborn, ...
with facts like these you can already get rid of some unbelievable Sources

Not necessarily. dagoth ur came back to life through the heart. that's why he vanishes completely when the heart is destroyed but vivec and almalexia don't.
what are you talking about?
can you make a link to your source?

did you play the game?

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_Citadels_of_the_Sixth_House

1st
he gets killed when he gets mortal again

"Dagoth Ur is now mortal, although you do not need to kill him yourself
and he may fall into the lava and die as Akulakhan collapses on top of him."

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Battle_of_Red_Mountain

2nd
he was never dead but escaped

"Then Nerevar and our guard resorted to force to secure the tools.
Somehow Dagoth Ur and his retainers escaped,
but we gained the tools,
and delivered them to Sotha Sil for study and safe-keeping."
Last edited by Boshiken; May 10 @ 7:04am
ava ♥ May 10 @ 7:22am 
The Tribunal will tell you it was Dagoth and Alandro-sul. Everyone knows Almalexia and Vivec killed him.
Last edited by ava ♥; May 10 @ 7:23am
Boshiken (Banned) May 10 @ 7:37am 
Originally posted by ava:
The Tribunal will tell you it was Dagoth and Alandro-sul. Everyone knows Almalexia and Vivec killed him.
they made a religion out of it

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tribunal_Temple

"The Temple was an organization
created for the worship of the Tribunal. Vivec, Almalexia and Sotha Si"

and tried to wipe out House Dagoth

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dagoth_Ur

"Unbeknownst to the Tribunal,
Dagoth and the Sixth House were not completely wiped out,
and he and his kin slept beneath Red Mountain for millennia."
Originally posted by Boshiken:
Originally posted by psychotron666:

Not necessarily. dagoth ur came back to life through the heart. that's why he vanishes completely when the heart is destroyed but vivec and almalexia don't.
what are you talking about?
can you make a link to your source?

did you play the game?

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_Citadels_of_the_Sixth_House

1st
he gets killed when he gets mortal again

"Dagoth Ur is now mortal, although you do not need to kill him yourself
and he may fall into the lava and die as Akulakhan collapses on top of him."

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Battle_of_Red_Mountain

2nd
he was never dead but escaped

"Then Nerevar and our guard resorted to force to secure the tools.
Somehow Dagoth Ur and his retainers escaped,
but we gained the tools,
and delivered them to Sotha Sil for study and safe-keeping."

Dagoth ur will literally vanish the second you unravel the heart
Boshiken (Banned) May 10 @ 7:56am 
Originally posted by psychotron666:
Originally posted by Boshiken:
what are you talking about?
can you make a link to your source?

did you play the game?

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_Citadels_of_the_Sixth_House

1st
he gets killed when he gets mortal again

"Dagoth Ur is now mortal, although you do not need to kill him yourself
and he may fall into the lava and die as Akulakhan collapses on top of him."

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Battle_of_Red_Mountain

2nd
he was never dead but escaped

"Then Nerevar and our guard resorted to force to secure the tools.
Somehow Dagoth Ur and his retainers escaped,
but we gained the tools,
and delivered them to Sotha Sil for study and safe-keeping."

Dagoth ur will literally vanish the second you unravel the heart
it is some time i played the game
but i killed him

maybe you have not been
in the right spot or fast enough

also i provided the source
in the wiki
Last edited by Boshiken; May 10 @ 7:57am
Boshiken (Banned) May 10 @ 8:14am 
Originally posted by ava:
The Tribunal will tell you it was Dagoth and Alandro-sul. Everyone knows Almalexia and Vivec killed him.
seems they could make a Mod for Alandro-sul

Thousand Ringlets

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Alandro_Sul
Last edited by Boshiken; May 10 @ 8:17am
Ghost May 10 @ 9:28pm 
It's never been confirmed who actually did it or is at fault. It's been hand-waved as a Dragon Break which is Bethesda's go-to 'get out of an answer' card. Everything that is claimed is both true and false, canon and non-canon. There will be no answer.
---

Originally posted by ava:
The Tribunal will tell you it was Dagoth and Alandro-sul. Everyone knows Almalexia and Vivec killed him.

The Tribunal don't tell you that Alandro-Sul killed Nerevar, they tell you that Alandro-Sul is responsible for the story of them killing Nerevar. They don't even outright say that Dagoth was responsible either.

---
Vivec is an unreliable source. As Sotha Sil puts it in ESO:
"Vivec knows the boundaries that separate fact from fiction. He knows them so well that's he's learned how to break them. He exists inside his verse, but recognizes the lies. The contradictions. He both does, and does not believe his own tales."

Vivec says the Tribunal didn't do it, yet has a book (supposedly written or at least dictated) that says they did.

The contradiction in Morrowind could just be yet another consequence of the devs not communicating. As prolific as he is, Kirkbride wasn't the only writer or designer, and a lot of the stuff he wrote while working on the series and continues to write today is pretty wild. Stuff like Sotha Sil's corpse being pregnant with a 'cosmic child'.

In Vivec's account, Nerevar is grievously wounded and has to be carried back from the battle, leaving Dagoth with the tools. They discuss what to do with the tools, eventually swearing on Azura that they would never use them, before going back to Red Mountain to recover them. In the meantime, Dagoth has seemingly gone mad and Nerevar and the guards resort to force. Mortally wounded, Dagoth and his retainers flee, Nerevar later dies from his wounds.

The Tribunal keep the oath they swore for years, but Sotha Sil studies the tools in secret. He later convinces the others they can be gods and they use the tools. Azura appears and curses them (with the Nerevarine) for breaking their oath, Sil insults and provokes her, so she curses the entire race - turning the Chimer into the Dunmer.
---

Alandro Sul (who was blinded in the previous war) says the Tribunal poisoned a wounded Nerevar. He went to live with the Ashlanders which is why they also blame them.

In his account, the Chimer are changed because the Tribunal murder Nerevar. Dagoth Ur is still alive when it happens, and somehow realising what happened when he changed, dies attempting to avenge Nerevar. Then the Tribunal take the tools.

---
Neither Azura or Dagoth Ur mention what happened to Nerevar. However, Dagoth Ur states that Nerevar confronted and killed him, which lends more credence to Vivec's account.

He couldn't have been killed by Nerevar if Nerevar was already dead, and therefore could not have attempted to avenge him.
====

You can kill Dagoth Ur repeatedly during the final fight but he'll keep respawning. When you destroy the heart, he is deleted from the game. Vivec and Almalexia aren't.
Last edited by Ghost; May 10 @ 9:29pm
non-answer: Geanor from Tribunal managing to get revenge with help of Telvanni time wizards. Can't believe the guards just let him have at you but YOU strike him they hunt your azz down!?
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