Oblivion is way better than Morrowind

[ureaditwrong]

For some reason recently, people have been gassing up Morrowind again. While I wouldn't call Morrowind bad, it is definitely way overhyped and worse than both Oblivion and Skyrim.

Idk how anyone can call this peak Bethesda. Bethesda is known for its world design and Morrowind's is the ugliest. It's 75% ash and then there's a small ugly swamp filled with hundreds of filler enemies, some low poly grasslands and a few islands. Dungeons are exactly the same as in Oblivion, just with non-leveled enemies. I will say the towns are pretty cool but offer limited functionality compared to Oblivion and Skyrim, especially considering mods.

Combat in Morrowind is literally just mashing l-mouse. There is no strategy involved whatsoever and no reward for leveling like there is in Oblivion and Skyrim, just an increase in accuracy. All magic except for restoration is trash. No this game is not more complex than its successors, quite the opposite actually.

The characters offer a lot of dialogue but it's mostly just filler, no different from Oblivion and Skyrim. Quantity does not equal quality.

So yeah, just needed to give that reality check to the boomers, ty.

[Icedfate]

cough. . .fallout New Vegas. . cough

[Drizzt]

引用自 Icedfate：

cough. . .fallout New Vegas. . cough

since i came home from a lovely night out and saw this - i will add one more thing - Fallout New Vegas is sooooooo goooood

i'm not sure if that is a useful addition to the conversation - but i'm in a very good mood - and it was nice to see some just mention FNV in a conversation about how awesome Morrowind is

because i love Morrowind, and i love Fallout New Vegas - they are both amazing and unique gems of games that still hold up today as almost endlessly replayable works of art - with their own quirks and flaws of course - but still both wonderful, beautiful, special games that fill me with joy every time i think about them - and still hold up when i play them

no nostalgia goggles - i still play them both to this very day - mostly vanilla - just the graphics extender for Morrowind and a few (very few) QoL mods for New Vegas

these games were (and still are) the real deal

but if people play them now and don't enjoy them, i can understand that and respect that everyone has their own tastes and things that they enjoy

but those of us who still enjoy them - i am sure we all feel lucky that we are the people these games were made for

ok - i am pretty drunk right now - and somewhat euphoric because i had a lovely evening with a beautiful woman

but

that is why i decided to share the love

Morrowind and Fallout New Vegas are games i fell in love with

and i still love them - and they love me - because every time we share some time it is wonderful - they give me everything i need - and all they want from me is to keep loving them :-)

just feel the love people - these games make us happy

how much more do we need?

Peace and Love to you all

:-) :-) :-)

[Icedfate]

the conversation is about which is "The Best Elder Scrolls Game" and i consider Fallout 3, NV and 4 to be in the same category. ."Bethesda Games".. They are different universe but essentially the same game just reskinned with postapoc wasteland theme.

i mean, come on, really, we all know Starfield is the best

[Drizzt]

引用自 Icedfate：

i mean, come on, really, we all know Starfield is the best :repoop:

even if it is poop, i still want to try it and see - if it's "Skyrim in space", then presumably there's some fun to be had - but i will definitely wait for the "Game of the Century" edition of whatever - and for the price to be no more that 20 bucks or so for game+DLC

[Icedfate]

引用自 Drizzt：

引用自 Icedfate：

i mean, come on, really, we all know Starfield is the best

even if it is poop, i still want to try it and see - if it's "Skyrim in space", then presumably there's some fun to be had - but i will definitely wait for the "Game of the Century" edition of whatever - and for the price to be no more that 20 bucks or so for game+DLC

well, technically, i guess i did say it's the "best poop".
every bethesda game has had initially poor reception , but then the modders fix everything.
main reason i haven't played starfield yet is that i don't meet the minimum specs for it. .
and for the time being, it almost seems like No Man's Sky does the same thing, only better.

i really want to see FO5 or TES6, but i dunno if those will ever happen.
also nkt sure where to set those.
like TES has featured every region as a main region , except black marsh, elseweyr and the bosmer homeland.

or they could go another direction and do the Akiviri lands, which is a whole other continent on the other side of the world that we know next to nothing about,

or they could make it a "prequel" set in The First Age. since morrowind and the later games are set in The Third Age.


as for fallout 5, dunno. there's plenty of places in America we still haven't visited. I think main thing is to visit a place that has a history that can be parodied.
or they could set it at a different place in the timeline, like maybe only 20 years after the war, instead of 200 years. Thjngs would probably be much different, like much more destruction, many more feral ghouls, but also more civilized ghouls as many ghouls lost their minds over time, somgoing backwards would mean more ghouls have not lost their minds yet.

maybe the BoS wouldn't be as strong yet, since they are still picking up pieces of civilization. there might be more tribals and gangs and raiders fighting each other.

the thing is game companies are shortsighted now. They think "why spend all this money developing a rich story that players will pay for it once and play through it, when we can do tons of shallow filler stuff to keep players busy and then keep nickel and diming them for stuff like subscriptions and MTX and seasonal events. ."

honestly , i haven't barely even researched ESO or FO76, but from what little i've seen , it looks like they chose the latter design philosophy

[Morgan Fun Gamer]

引用自 Icedfate：

引用自 Drizzt：

even if it is poop, i still want to try it and see - if it's "Skyrim in space", then presumably there's some fun to be had - but i will definitely wait for the "Game of the Century" edition of whatever - and for the price to be no more that 20 bucks or so for game+DLC

or they could go another direction and do the Akiviri lands, which is a whole other continent on the other side of the world that we know next to nothing about,

I heard people say that deleveopers said that they did not want to set any games on akavir to leave for imagaition similar to fallout with the rest of the world where they do not set fallout games or mention what is happening there in other parts around the world for imagation its similar here with akavir and there is aswell atmora another contientent in the elder scrolls world nirn it is the homeland of the nords but it is very inhabitable and very dangerous and has been described as a wasteland and we don't know much about it there is no times we get to see it so we don't know what it looks like and there is another contient yokuda it is a contientent east of tamriel I think and it is the home of the redguards but it has sunk into the ocean but I heard that some parts of it have not sunk there could be a game set there as a prequel or in the modern in the unsunken parts if some parts of it did not sink.

[Icedfate]

as for the thread topic, is oblivion superior to morrowind and my impression is "that depends".

if you look at it from a "mechanical" standpoint, oblivion and skyrim are clearly superior. with better combat mechanics. MW has no actual "physics". your weapons don't "connect" with the enemies. it just swings the weapond and does a die roll to see if you hit and then the enemy does a little animation lkke it got hit and then when the hp runs out, it just falls over.
When i fought that nord outside hla oad, he was coming at me and i finally did that last hit and there was a small delay before he did a Mortal Kombat "this is when you fall down" style swan dive off the side of the bridge. .it was hilarious.

in later entries, weapoms actually conmect with enemies. spells have more streamlined effects.
NPC are more "aware" of the player, following the player into back rooms to keep an eye on you in case you try to steal.
They have schedules for the day/night cycle, imstead of just standing in one spot available 24/7. (of which i'm not complaining about MW letting me access vendors at any time, lol, i do get annoyed when i always seem to arrive i town at 1 a.m when everyone is asleep)

the npc schedules make the game world feel more alive.

and i know this may be an unpopular opinion, but i severely dislike the way "vanilla" MW does the journal entries, with no way to sort them or mark certain "questlines". OpenMW kinda improves this in that you can click an "options" menu that lets you pick an active quest and jump straight to the journal entry.

later entries have better graphics. .. debatable for oblivion when it comes to character faces. .
later entries have better voice acting.

I'm hard pressed to know which game has actually "more content", since MW does have a lot of side content, but much of it is not easily accessible, way off the beaten path and hidden and almost certainly requires a guide to find it all,
while oblivion and skyrim mark stuff more visibly and have fast travel points.

i know there's the purists who say "don't fast travel, walk everywhere!"
, but fast travel goes all the back to TES 1 and 2. Fast travel is not "instant". time passes, causing enemies to respawn when fast traveling.
I dare someone to try and play daggerfall without fast traveling, lol...seriously. don't try it.


nkw the big one is "story"
people think the "story" of MW is better than oblivion and skyrim, but imdunno. there's barely any "narrative". yes, there's a TON of lore, but it's all comtained in lore dumps, like you encounter an NPC and they just have a zillion keywords to ask about.
ask about disease, they say, oh there's common disease, blight dosease, corprus dosease", then you can ask sbout each of those and read a paragraph, the common disease paragragh mentions SIXTEEN common diseases, each of which links to its own seprate keyword with a whole nother paragraph.

ask about the "houses" and you end up clicking on 19 more keywords to learn about houses and ashlanders and outsiders and different player races

I applaud their worldbuildimg. They clearly put a lot of effort into the lore, but it's not presented to the player organically. it's more like looking up the glossary at the end of a textbook (this is the same criticism i have for Frank Herbert's Dune, with all the slang words in it and all the politics and he has a glossary at the back of the book i need to keep turning to every time a new word or name is dropped)

the main questline has a clear "story" to it, with the npcs sending you places and then you find out your destiny and what you need to do to save the world. .

but then, you can just go off and do stuff and it's just .. stuff to do. most side stuff is just kill this person or get this thing from this other person. some of them are funny, like the naked nord that wants his axe back (i'm annoyed that there's no "peaceful" solution to that one. .)

the real "meat" of the game i believe is in doing the guild faction quests, which send you all over the map. .but then again, some of them have really unclear instructions .
i've been stuck on the mage guild quest in balmora for days, the one where she sends you to recruit a guy and collect dues from another guy and her "directions" are so complicated and i keep trying to follow them and end up in the wrong place and then i'm doing other stuff there and then i forget about it and then imcome back later and try again and end up in the wrong place again.


Oblivion had a more grander scale makn questline with a more clear narrative, with the gates of oblivikn and the demons invading and you're the "hero" that has to stop it all.

Skyrim is even more cinematic, and people keep,saying it's bad writing l but like even many side quests have these narratives.
and they aren't all hidden in corners of the map, lkke you go into the trmple of dibella and suddenly wake up naked and drunk and they aren't all pissed at you and then it becomes this big thing for a daedric artifact. each daedric prince has their own special thing .

the main questline with the dragonborn and alduin and is longer than ever before.

then there's the "civil war", which i never actually finished, because bith sides were so morally repugnant to me. i tried on 3 separate plays and couldn't bring myself to do it.
I finally tried on my third play and sided with the stormcloaks and halfway through, i felt dirty, like physicand mentally dirty at the choices i made and what was happening, i got depressed and quit the playthrough. of which I think that's a sign of GREAT writing, when it can evoke those emotions in me.


MW is the definitive one that saved the series and it will always have that nostalgia, but I don't agree that it's the superior game.

it's kinda like how Anthrax is one of The Big Four Of Thrash, even though they started to suck after their first 2 albums (when they chamged to a more experimental rapmetal style).
Testament is superior to Anthrax in every way. Testament should be one of The Big Four, not Anthrax, but of course, Anthrax is there because they did it first . they were part of the foundation of thrash alongside metallica, slayer and megadeth. Still Testament is superior to Anthrax, you can't change my mind.

i mean, i prefer King Diamond, Blind Guardian and Nightwish myself. .and i used to have a certain band i had at #1 which is reflected in my username, but since learning about their politics, i can't support them anymore. .

[Icedfate]

on the subject of Akavir, i get why they might want to keep the "Mysterious Akavir" mythology going, but the 📕 by that title does say quite a bit of background which coild be an interesting game.
it talks about new races, like monkey-men and snake-people and tiger-people and how the tiger people have many sub breeds, (of course, those don't sound much different from khajiit)
All the katanas in the games come from Akavir, which leads me to believe that the entire continent of akavir would be themed around Asian culture, like Japanase and Hindu mythology. (the fact that katanas are always the "best" long blades tells me that at least a couple people on the team are weebs. . )
The book also says that dragons live there. .and since Skyrim established dragons, they already have that framework.

It would be an opportunity to explore an entirely new backdrop with new playable races and new lore.

although, i admit, the book also claims that the Akaviri races killed off all the "people", by "people", i assume that they mean all the Tamrielic races , i.e. player races.
It also goes on to say how "Tamriel is the center of the world and all creatures have come together to Tamriel because they believe that is where the final battle for all existence will be fought"

i dunno, if they did this it could have a story like maybe the tamrielic races travel to akavir and try to resettle it and are faced with violent opposition, but manage to secure a foothold and the game starts the player in a newly established settlement near the shoreline and they can explore the new world and there are several imperial and tamrielic towns in a small chunk of akavir, but then going in deeper, the player will start to find these other settlements of monkeypeople and snakepeople and tigerpeople and other new races and discover these other creatures are not as violent as they first appeared and have their own cultures. like the monkey people could be himdi, the tiger people could be like shaolin monks and there could be a whole empire that looks like japanese samurais and samurai lords and daimyos and then there could be a part based on chinese culture with other races based on chinese mythology or the chinese zodiac. .

they probably won't do it anyway, because that would require a lot of writing new lore and making new character models and putting in new types of architecture in the buoldings, new biomes, like jungle biomes and stuff and that's more budget than they probably want to put into it.

[Icedfate]

something else i thought would be funny is if they set TES6 in Elsweyr, the khajiit homeland and did a whole thing all about the skooma/moon sugar trade. Since the khajiit love their moon suger and i'm kinda not folly versed on the lore behind the moon suger, but it seems that it comes from their homeland and they all love it and are all addicts, but then maybe it affects their physiology differently from humans(?) or maybe not.
but then they could implement the "addiction" mechanics from Fallout. and then make skooma really abundant and have it everywhere like Nuka Cola (but not as valuable, since it's everywhere, it would be super cheap to buy and sell, mainly also to justify it so the player doesn't break the economy by selling it, ) and then have different varieties and different recipes to make the different varieties like the different flavors of Nuka Cola.

and i probably don't have to mention the parallel of skooma/moon suger being cocaine and the fact that Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it. .

[Bishop]

I agree. Nostalgia always plays a big factor in a lot of people's heads and I don't think most go back and play games from their childhood to see how they hold up. Morrowind has it's charm but has aged terribly. The dice roll system for combat is the biggest issue. Games like it and Kotor leaned too much into DnD systems to try and appeal to tabletop fans but the fact is this kind of combat isn't interesting. The game also throws way too much exposition and pointless information at you when talking to npcs. It just feels like a chore to play these days whereas I can fire up Oblivion and immediately have fun.

[Icedfate]

i think one thing that frustrates me about mooprrowind is the sheer amount of content it has, with nothing pointing you towards that content. There's so mich stuff hidden in it that one is likely never to find , not even in hundreds of hours, without a guide.

it hits you with too many sidequests at once, with no way to organize the information. the journal entries never tell you wehre you first met the questgiver, like it says "such and such asked you to do this thing" and when you finally figure out where to go and how to do the thing, now it says "okay i just need to return for my reward" and it could be hours or even days since you picked up that quest and all you have is a person's name and the names all sound like generic fantasy names. you can tell someone's race by their name and that's it.

compare to the waypoints in Oblivion, FO3 and beyond, yeah , it takes away some of the mystery of figuring it out on your own, but it also takes away the frustration of walking in circles for weeks and then just eventually giving up on the quest.

in the later games, you can walk the map and every location gets revealed on the map as you pass by. you can see the unidentified markers on the compass ,so you can walk toward them. .which can lead to memeworthy moments like suddenly being confronted with a mountain and then hopping on your horse to climb the vertical cliffs, as we all know horses are supremely evolved for just that,


i dunno .. maybe some things got worse, but that's subjective.
comsider the Daedric Artifacts.
On Daggerfall, the artifacts were nearly impossible to find. the world map is so huge with so many locations, how would one ever hope to "accidentally" stumble upon one of the shrines where they can summon the daedric princes for 200k gold, unless they looked up a guide?

in morrowind, the daedric artifacts are at least possible to find if one is throrough, but they are still fairly well hidden, like Boethiah's shrine. Even if one randomly goes in that direction and sees it there, one might not think to click that exact pixel to activate the quest.

meanwhile, in Skyrim, the Daedric Artifacts practically just fall into your lap. You meet some guy in a bar and suddenly wake up , naked in a temple on a quest for the artifact. or a dog runs up to you and demands you follow it to the artifact. .or a king sends you downstairs and suddenly, you're transported to another realm,. It's as if the Princes are literally seeking you out in that game.

[Boutus]

引用自 Icedfate：

in morrowind, the daedric artifacts are at least possible to find if one is throrough, but they are still fairly well hidden, like Boethiah's shrine. Even if one randomly goes in that direction and sees it there, one might not think to click that exact pixel to activate the quest.

I've never had this myself, just go exploring in a random direction.

[Icedfate]

引用自 Boutus：

引用自 Icedfate：

in morrowind, the daedric artifacts are at least possible to find if one is throrough, but they are still fairly well hidden, like Boethiah's shrine. Even if one randomly goes in that direction and sees it there, one might not think to click that exact pixel to activate the quest.

I've never had this myself, just go exploring in a random direction.

yeah, i was saying that. someone could explore in a random direction and stumble across one, but then might not notice what they're "supposed" to do.
example is Boethiah's quest i mentioned above maybe you decide, hey this open sea looks interesting, what would happen if i swim out? and then you see the sunken ruins. one might dive down and search around, finding no treasure , nothing. one might see the broken statue, but then might not notice the head. one might notice the head, but not think to click on it, so one might completely miss the quest entirely as opposed to Skyrim, where it's almost impossible not to start the quests.

the thing that is maddening is when i do decide to explore and just start clearing dungeons, i keep finding all these named quest items for quests i haven't started yet and then it makes me reluctant to go in them for fear of breaking a quest down the line.

[Rastrelly]

引用自 Bishop：

I agree. Nostalgia always plays a big factor in a lot of people's heads and I don't think most go back and play games from their childhood to see how they hold up. Morrowind has it's charm but has aged terribly. The dice roll system for combat is the biggest issue. Games like it and Kotor leaned too much into DnD systems to try and appeal to tabletop fans but the fact is this kind of combat isn't interesting. The game also throws way too much exposition and pointless information at you when talking to npcs. It just feels like a chore to play these days whereas I can fire up Oblivion and immediately have fun.

Well I guess Baldur's Gate 3 was a huge failure. Let's pack up and move, boys!

[Allwynd]

Oblivion and Skyrim are not RPGs. They are action games with limited RPG elements.

There are no mods for either that expand the game functionality or mechanics to a point where it remotely resembles the features and mechanics that Morrowind has.

It's been said many times before. Oblivion and Skyrim became popular because they are friendly to gamers with no previous background. Morrowind is a sandbox RPG and has much more replay value than both combined.

Before I get into too much details, from what I remember, Oblivion and Skyrim towns are instanced and Morrowind's aren't which is a massive point for Morrowind. Lastly, comparing the boring world of Oblivion and Skyrim, with Skyrim being more varied than Oblivion which is just 95% forest with a little bit of snow and swamp is not a good argument. Sure, Morrowind is a lot of ash and there is no denying it, but what are Oblivion and Skyrim? For me Skyrim had the most boring world even though it had more terrain variations, because of the biome it is in - a snow tundra - for me this is the most boring setting for any game.

I played the game in this order:

- Skyrim
- Morrowind
- ESO
- Oblivion

and Oblivion for me was the biggest disappointment and after playing Morrowind, I realized that Skyrim is the most horrible of them all, it made me seriously dislike anything Viking-themed, anything dragon-themed and anything undead-themed. The game is the epitome of "forced epicness", which also made me dislike everything that is considered "epic".

I don't want to go into too much detail, but the "internet culture" that Skyrim spawned is the most brain dead and mediocre I've seen - people en masse getting excited about the most dumbed-down things possible.

Morrowind has many flaws, but from a standpoint of an RPG game, it's the best and nothing comes close. It has some of the most expansive mods ever - building massive parts of Tamriel into the game, no other version has that where it's all connected, it has some "pocked dimension" mods where all you really do is visit small instanced areas of other provinces, but that's really about it.

You can continue to think whatever you want, but people have already explained to you why you are wrong.