The Dark Brotherhood and Helseth

[Captain Skinny]

Spoilers to come, be forewarned.

So after wandering around, killing a few gods, and generally being a nuisance to anyone ill dispositioned, the Nerevarine makes his way to Mourhold, full of CHIM and ready to make it everyone's problem.

My main concern was paying a visit to the foolhardy assassin's club that tried to wack little ol' level 1 me, a grave error. I find 'em, dig 'em out and kill them to a man. On their leader a little note is left behind (terribly unprofessional) which has some clarifications, and is signed "H".

My very first thought it Fedris Hler, Alamelexia's steward. The facts as I see them: Mexi's life literally depends on stopping the Nerevarine. She has few scruples with murder and she's already killed him once before. She's desperate. Hler is a former assassin himself and likely has ties to such people. All this adds up to Alamalexia having motive, opportunity and willingness to send them. After all, Vivec did the same. Peakstar died in his custody!

But when I go to Tientius, King Helseth's head bodyguard, I'm given a dialogue option which states "Show him proof Helseth tried to have you murdered."
But what proof is this? The note with the letter H? That implicates half the Dunmer alive. What reason would Helseth have to kill me anyway? He only gains from the Nerevarine completing his mission, and likely wasn't aware of my status at level 1 as it was a closely guarded secret of the emperor himself. Alamalexia has god powers, and could've sniffed that out on her own somehow. Tientius, when asked about it, says to the effect, "Yeah, I know, but don't have much to tell you about it."

Did I miss something? Is some explanation forthcoming? I've ran through that entire questline and have still no idea why the game tells me Helseth had reason to assassinate me when I first arrived in Vvardenfel.

[psychotron666]

When you kill the dark brotherhood leader he says, "tell my leige I've failed him" or something along those lines.

The keyword is leige, which means King. That with the writ signed H, it's pretty clear.

Helseth will also admit it later. He tried to kill you because he's paranoid. You were a prisoner let off in his country by Uriel septim himself for undisclosed reasons.

[Ghost]

*Liege but yes.

Also arguably Fedris would've signed with an F or an FH, whereas the king just goes by Helseth.

He admits it and even tries it again later with the "plot" to kill Barenziah.

"Yes...we have various sources throughout Vvardenfell that are paid well to provide us with information. Unfortunately, sometimes it proves to be incorrect. One of our informants had suggested that you could pose a threat to our monarchy. That cannot be allowed, as I'm sure you understand."
---
"Wait in the antechamber outside Barenziah's room at nightfall and protect her from the assassins. You are to hide behind the screens in the anteroom, and make sure to close the door to the room behind you..."

And then the assassins come in and if they don't detect you or you attack them straight away, they'll straight up say that they were told to kill the person behind the screens in the anteroom. Barenziah and her scribe friend will also say the plot to assassinate her isn't real.

[Nebgama]

Originally posted by Captain Skinny:

Did I miss something? Is some explanation forthcoming? I've ran through that entire questline and have still no idea why the game tells me Helseth had reason to assassinate me when I first arrived in Vvardenfel.

We don't know why and any conclusions are theoretical based.

it has to be that Helseth has all reason to want you killed because he knows %100 your existence signals big change in Morrowind the sort of change that could see him lose power. He palms it off by stating that he thinks that you are a vying for the Throne directly, but if he is aware of the prophecy which id say he is then he will know it never explicitly states this action.

Therefore he just knows your prophecy is going to create vast change in the province that potentially does not benefit him.

Its literally down to the fact that he will have knowledge of the Nerevarine Prophecy and just like a few other key figures he is also watching out for Nerevarine's arrival because he knows it could change his position of power. To Avoid that if he has you killed then there is no potential.

[Nebgama]

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Seven_Visions

You can see in the prophecy especially the Fourth, Fifth, Seventh and One Destiny entries that, the text is describing a revolutionary figure.

Who are revolutionary? they are people that come and mess ♥♥♥♥ up for already established power. They have the power to move masses of people and create division between the people and the already established power. Jesus was a revolutionary for example and the Roman military killed him.

Jesus was viewed by some Jewish authorities as a threat to the established religious order due to his teachings, Mainly the politics of it but also the already established power of those religions. its the same idea. The Romans ruled Judea at the time and is why they are part of the equation. They don't want some revolutionary force coming in and changing things by swaying masses of people.

Of course a King is going to be weary of these sorts of figures, because it might change their position on the board.

[Nebgama]

He is also Trying to control the Tribunal for political gain this is why Almalexia resides in Mournhold they are both trying to game each other in power plays.

You being heaven sent from the Good Daedra the "Gods" that supersede Almsivi is only another spanner in the works for Helseth when he is already struggling to control the Tribunal to his bidding.

The Nervarine is here to mess up the Tribunal too.

[Nebgama]

I would also think that the assassination attempt is not a uncommon plot, its through out history as a theme. Again the most famous would be Jesus they sent out assassins when he was born to try and kill him.

They actually killed a lot of babies because of this.

In the biblical account, there is a story in the Gospel of Matthew that describes an attempt to kill Jesus as a baby. After the Magi (wise men) visit Jesus to pay homage following his birth, they inform King Herod of the child's location. Herod, feeling threatened by the birth of the "King of the Jews," orders the Massacre of the Innocents, which is the killing of all male infants in Bethlehem under the age of two, in an attempt to eliminate Jesus.

Because they knew Jesus was here to fk sht up

[Ghost]

Originally posted by Nebgama:

He is also Trying to control the Tribunal for political gain this is why Almalexia resides in Mournhold they are both trying to game each other in power plays.

To be fair, during Morrowind's time, Mournhold is both literally her city (in the same sense that Vivec City is Vivec's and Sotha Sil / The Clockwork City is Sotha Sil's), and the royal capital, and incidentally also the council seat of House Indoril.

It would be weird for the king and goddess to not be in their own palaces.

---
'Old' Mournhold was built on dwemer ruins, then destroyed by Mehrunes Dagon during the 1st Era, and then Almalexia built (or more likely had built) the new Mournhold on the same location and the names of the city and surrounding land were changed to Almalexia, with only the central interior still being called Mournhold.

===
Incidentally there being 3 'wise men' was assumed from 3 gifts being given by a theologian some 250 odd years after the supposed event and no time period was given for their arrival, other than Jesus' birth which is when most people seem to think they turned up.

[Nebgama]

And here we go Segway right into another useless argument. Mournhold itself is not Almexia's she just reside there in her Temple the city that surrounds it was dedicated to her because she commissioned all that construction after it was destroyed which we don't get to see properly in Morrowind.

That whole city as a whole predates Both Almalexia and King Helseth. None of them actually own it. They are both in power plays against each other for control actually.

[Ghost]

Originally posted by Nebgama:

And here we go Segway right into another useless argument. Mournhold itself is not Almexia's she just reside there in her Temple the city that surrounds it was dedicated to her because she commissioned all that construction after it was destroyed which we don't get to see properly in Morrowind.

That whole city as a whole predates Both Almalexia and King Helseth. None of them actually own it. They are both in power plays against each other for control actually.

None of that contradicts what I said. Yes they're both competing for power, I didn't say they weren't. That's somewhat irrelevant to them both living there in their palaces. They're not competing because they both live there, and that's not why Alma lives there.

Though I'd note that while it certainly predates Helseth (being born roughly 3500 years after Almalexia became an immortal god), there's nothing to say that the city predates Almalexia.

Though sources differ, the elves can clearly live for a long time.
'The Real Barenziah' states 1 thousand years barring disease, violence or magical intervention though this could be a case of Unreliable Narrator, being written by a human. Barenziah herself is 430 during Morrowind. 'The Pocket Guide to the Empire' describes numerous Altmer remembering Tiber Septim's conquests, making them at least 400. Urag gro-Shub, the orc librarian of the College of Winterhold in Skyrim, is at least 600. Divayth Fyr is 4000 something.

'Old' Mournhold became a royal capital sometime after the War of Succession which ended in 1E 420. They've never given a date for when it became the capital. The grandkids of the king during the war split the kingdom into 2 states - Ebonheart (the mainland one) and Mournhold after the death of their mother, who was queen for an unknown length of time.

'Old' Mournhold was Almalexia's home and seat of power, and the Indoril capital. Nerevar died in 1E 700. The Tribunal became gods a few years later, after Sotha Sil studied the tools ~2200 years before the city was destroyed the first time. The current Mournhold is not the same as 'Old' Mournhold just because it was built in the same area.
---
It's also called her city several times during the game; I'm not saying she owns it.

[Nebgama]

You tried to correct me by saying its her city, i am just saying its not really her city, the city around Mournhold was named after her that does not exactly mean its hers.

Martin Luther king Ave is not his either just named after him

[Ghost]

You've either misunderstood/misread or are ignoring the context in the rest of that section.

Either way I'm happy to leave it there to not prolong an argument.

*So you've quite clearly misunderstood what I wrote.
**Also should be segue, not segway. A segway is a type of vehicle.

[Nebgama]

i am not the one misunderstanding here you are and it does not even matter ffs you tried to pull me up remember? and on something that had no basis to begin with. You tried to make out like i was wrong for stating what i said,

all i came back with in rebuttal to that feign was the fact that Almalexia Most likely does not own Mournhold. Just because the city is named after her does not mean ♥♥♥♥ when the old city before the rebuild predates her.

You did basically try to override me with "But the city is named after her" which basically implies its her city. Well it might not be her city if we want to break it down.

All i said was...

He is also Trying to control the Tribunal for political gain this is why Almalexia resides in Mournhold they are both trying to game each other in power plays.

it does not really matter Almalexia is her city now and she has her hands guards and all that, they go there to pray and many things. When i said what i said it was not meant to get into a long winded ass argument having to explain myself. I was literally trying to rely that her and the King are plotting against each other for power.

You took it here dude on a technicality not me.

[Nebgama]

It also makes sense that if Mournhold could also be tied to Indoril it would make sense there is a whole sector dedicated to his name in mournhold, i would say taht considering Almalexia is Indoril's wife that backstabbed him then its highly possible she stole his estate too.

You know why those guards are claimed to look like Indoril? maybe those her hands guards are actually supposed to be his hands guards. She just stole them, stole the infrastructure stole the whole city. And then like typical ES lore everyone is fighting over something (The city) in this case as there is two overarching powers fighting there.

In this context is makes full sense in a death the Wife or Queen if its Kings and Queens then she will take over the Estate, in this case because she potentially had a hand in backstabbing Indoril then its highly likely that was his Estate she didn't just inherit it she took it off of him by death, it has guards that have his face on their helmets walking around, there is a section in the heart of the city with his name etc.

its also full circle which is common in ES plots, the reincarnation comes back around to his own estate but has no knowledge that it used to be his Estate. I think we can assume that big areas of the lore are biased and rewritten in fact we know this is the case. its not hard for them to write out all the history of Mournhold and how Indoril used to own it because they don't want anyone to know. The Tribunal want to take over so they are going to be doing dodgy ♥♥♥♥ like this.

Also ironic that he died the first time around and it could be his Estate and now there is a King in his Estate trying to have him killed again from his own Throne.

Also to mention that a King is the ruler of an Estate and no one is above him so this dichotomy is already a strange one, Mournhold that is. Because its wish washy as to who owns it. Technically King Helseth should be the owner because he is supposed to be a king.