Morrowind Combat vs Skyrim Combat

[spaneika]

Skyrim Combat differences:

1) Increase of skill directly increases damage output
2) Perks add various bonuses to combat skills, damage and otherwise
3) Duel-wielding
4) Active blocking and shield bashing
5) Finishing moves/animations
6) Mounted combat
7) At 0 stamina, you can perform normal attacks, but no power attacks

Morrowind Combat differences

1) Three variations of a weapon swing, with differing damage outputs
2) Chance to hit dictated by weapon skills, attributes and fatigue formulas
3) Passive blocking/evading dictated by skills, attributes and fatigue formulas
4) Damage dependent on strength attribute
5) Damage dependent on condition of weapon
6) At 0 fatigue, you lose accuracy of attack

Please let me know if i omitted any substantial differences, but i think that generally covers it.

The reason i am posting this information is that i find it very curious that many people here believe that combat in TES games has gotten worse.

When comparing the two games, i think its obvious that Skyrim demands more participation from the user when it comes to combat. You can perform a normal attack, power attack, you can block, perform a shield bash to stun your victim. Also, with the addition of perks, these open the door for more strategic options when combating and more variance. And lets not forget the finishing moves for extra flavor!

In Morrowind, everything is happening internally. Mathematical formulas dictate when you will land a hit, when you will evade/block, and, and that's about it.

You see, in Morrowind, when it comes to combat, you can thrust, swing sideways, or chop. That's it. 3 clicks.

This is why i feel that Bethesda has improved the combat since Morrowind, because we the gamers are taking a more active role in it. Combat is more visceral, more strategic, more fun. And i think that is probably the most important factor here.

If you feel Bethesda needs to go back to the Morrowind formula, please let me know why? What are the benefits to this system?

[Seanobi.old]

Why is Morrowinds combat better? People just like true-to-form RPGs. Another example would be: Neverwinter Nights 1 ... It's generally preference. If you like an arcade RPG, play Skyrim... If you like a dice-roll based combat RPG, play Morrowind. (and Daggerfall too btw)

Oh and it doesn't hold your hand. The game is much tougher in general.

Just depends. I like every TES game. I just prefer dice-rolled RPG combat. Call me old fashioned, I guess.

[Clover]

Morrowind combat wins by far. Oblivion was just a spamfest, no reason to ever stop swinging. At least that was changed a bit in Skyrim. Morrowind has the worst combat early game though.

[You takin notes]

Morrowinds combat was the best.
Skyrim's combat was the worst.
Skyrim's combat is the worst because it was the same as oblivion, they did not even improve on it.

[Coalheart]

I prefer Morrowind. As stated, in true "classic" RPG form, it's your stats that matter. If I'm in the mood for a fast twitch dexterity challenge, I'll play a FPS or a platformer, not an RPG.

[Sigilbreaker]

The active blocking was definitely an improvement, and it would have been nice to have a little "miss" or "hit" to show you whether you were hitting or not, especially for archery. Dual Wielding was also nice. But Morrowind is definitely better in terms of variety - more spells, spellmaking, more weapons, e.g. spears, even hand-to-hand. Finishing moves I can take or leave, except the stealth kills which were very useful to tell what you had done.

Both have their ups and downs and both suit each game.

[illuknisaa]

Morrowind is much better because fatigue is an important stat.
Attributes in morrowind allow you to create a much bigger variety characters.

Putting points into fatigue in skyrim means that you wasted wasted the points you could have put into health.

quote
"This is why i feel that Bethesda has improved the combat since Morrowind, because we the gamers are taking a more active role in it. Combat is more visceral, more strategic, more fun. And i think that is probably the most important factor here.
/quote

Nope.avi
Only strategy you need is to spam power attacks until enemies are dead. Eat hp potion when nessary. When I played skyrim I was so bored of combat (all forms) that I would just type killall into console.

[Disturbed Individual]

Honestly, Skyrim combat bored me. Yeah, it had its intense moments with certain bosses and what have you if you weren't grinded out enough, and pretty spell-slinging visuals and finisher animations with melee weapons, but as far as actual strategy goes it just felt like it was missing a huge core component. I don't know if I would've been able to get through it without the mindset of just getting through the enemies to feed my explorative urges and sense of adventure. Skyrim in general is awesome, can't beat it, but man I wish the combat had more to it besides perks. I'm just glad I chose archery, magic, and sneak for that game, the main melee playthrough just looks bland as hayul.

P.S, how dare you compare two completely different games as if they were made within months of each other >.< You're comparing YEARS of development here, man! The kinda kids who played Morrowind in Middle/High School are of drinking age in the US, and I'd say more than a handful of them are settled down enough to have a spouse of some sort. This ain't CoD here man this is history, you just can't pair these two together like that.

[spaneika]

Originally posted by Ripper Roo's Protegé:

Honestly, Skyrim combat bored me. Yeah, it had its intense moments with certain bosses and what have you if you weren't grinded out enough, and pretty spell-slinging visuals and finisher animations with melee weapons, but as far as actual strategy goes it just felt like it was missing a huge core component. I don't know if I would've been able to get through it without the mindset of just getting through the enemies to feed my explorative urges and sense of adventure. Skyrim in general is awesome, can't beat it, but man I wish the combat had more to it besides perks. I'm just glad I chose archery, magic, and sneak for that game, the main melee playthrough just looks bland as hayul.

P.S, how dare you compare two completely different games as if they were made within months of each other >.< You're comparing YEARS of development here, man! The kinda kids who played Morrowind in Middle/High School are of drinking age in the US, and I'd say more than a handful of them are settled down enough to have a spouse of some sort. This ain't CoD here man this is history, you just can't pair these two together like that.

;) I'm comparing them because till this day, people still compare these two. "The reason i am posting this information is that i find it very curious that many people here believe that combat in TES games has gotten worse"

[spaneika]

"People just like true-to-form RPGs. It's generally preference.

Morrowind combat wins by far. Oblivion was just a spamfest, no reason to ever stop swinging. At least that was changed a bit in Skyrim.

Skyrim's combat is the worst because it was the same as oblivion, they did not even improve on it.

Morrowind is much better because fatigue is an important stat."


It seems like it boils down to General Preference here, (which is totally acceptable). People who think Morrowind combat is better is because they prefer true RPG dice-roll mechanisms.

Unfortunately, i haven't heard any other specific reason, other than "Morrowind is much better because fatigue is an important stat." Although I agree with this, its very comparable to stamina. Stamina is an important stat in Skyrim.

I want to remind everyone that I am strictly talking about the combat of the game, not which game gave you more goosebumps ;)

[illuknisaa]

Originally posted by spaneika:

"People just like true-to-form RPGs. It's generally preference.

Morrowind combat wins by far. Oblivion was just a spamfest, no reason to ever stop swinging. At least that was changed a bit in Skyrim.

Skyrim's combat is the worst because it was the same as oblivion, they did not even improve on it.

Morrowind is much better because fatigue is an important stat."


It seems like it boils down to General Preference here, (which is totally acceptable). People who think Morrowind combat is better is because they prefer true RPG dice-roll mechanisms.

Unfortunately, i haven't heard any other specific reason, other than "Morrowind is much better because fatigue is an important stat." Although I agree with this, its very comparable to stamina. Stamina is an important stat in Skyrim.

I want to remind everyone that I am strictly talking about the combat of the game, not which game gave you more goosebumps ;)

Stamina is borderline useless in skyrim.

Stamina gives you more carry weight and more time to sprint.

You dont need more carry weight because only sthing you need is your armor, weapon and health potions. Everything else either weightless or worthless (sometimes both). If you really can't live without more carry weight get the perk from pickpocket which gives 100 more carry weight.

Want longer sprint? Use fast travel.

[lPaladinl]

The best way I can put it, is that playing Skyrim, I have to force myself to roleplay to get the most out of their game. Morrowind naturally has me roleplaying without me forcing myself to play the game differently and ignore certain aspects (like instant fast travel that basically makes Oblivion and Skyrim boring and pointless if you do nothing but fast travel)

[spaneika]

Originally posted by illuknisaa:

Stamina is borderline useless in skyrim.

Stamina gives you more carry weight and more time to sprint.

You dont need more carry weight because only sthing you need is your armor, weapon and health potions. Everything else either weightless or worthless (sometimes both). If you really can't live without more carry weight get the perk from pickpocket which gives 100 more carry weight.

Want longer sprint? Use fast travel.

I wouldn't say stamina is useless. Without stamina, you cannot execute a power attack or a successful shield bash. Also, without stamina, you cannot sprint away from danger...

[spaneika]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

The best way I can put it, is that playing Skyrim, I have to force myself to roleplay to get the most out of their game. Morrowind naturally has me roleplaying without me forcing myself to play the game differently and ignore certain aspects (like instant fast travel that basically makes Oblivion and Skyrim boring and pointless if you do nothing but fast travel)

I understand where you are coming from. But i want to focus on purely the combat. Unless you mean that Morrowind's combat helps you naturally roleplay, while Skyrim's does not. Which would be a fair statement.

[illuknisaa]

Originally posted by spaneika:

Originally posted by illuknisaa:

Stamina is borderline useless in skyrim.

Stamina gives you more carry weight and more time to sprint.

You dont need more carry weight because only sthing you need is your armor, weapon and health potions. Everything else either weightless or worthless (sometimes both). If you really can't live without more carry weight get the perk from pickpocket which gives 100 more carry weight.

Want longer sprint? Use fast travel.

I wouldn't say stamina is useless. Without stamina, you cannot execute a power attack or a successful shield bash. Also, without stamina, you cannot sprint away from danger...

All races get 100 stamina.

Guess how much stamina you need to make the most stamina intensive power attack?

1.

Why would you need to run away from danger? Just use health potion instead.

[Seanobi.old]

You want an actual full blown explanation?

Morrowinds combat is better because of these reasons:

You need to plan ahead: Make sure you have enough stamina to try to make successful attacks land, and hope they are more powerful as well. The more you hold down the attack button until you are fully "at the ready".

What or whom are you attacking or are about to attack?: Whatever it is that you're facing, you need to ensure that you are qualified for an attack before-hand. Firing a frost spell at a Nord? Completely useless. Think! Use that noggin! What are they generally weak to? What race specific abilities do they have? Use everything at your disposal to exploit that character or creature's weakness.

What do I have to use? Can I kill him/her/it?: Well that's the next big question, isn't it? What DO you have so that you can face this being? Look through your inventory, especially at low levels, to discern what you have and what can be used against the qualifying weaknesses for what you are attacking. Okay, so you have a dwemer short sword? Aren't you lucky that it's enchanted? Oh look, that Imperial was a vampire! Good thing or else I was doomed!

Now: I need to ensure that I look and see what type of attack my weapon is using that is the most powerful, and try to use that as an advantage when navigating around the current area fighting this guy. I can't get hit, because you can contract vampirism! Do you want that? Do you want to avoid that? Stay focused. Stay clean. Try to keep your fatigue up. Make sure you have enough potions, or have enough time to cast a spell!

The enemy is too powerful: I'm almost dead! I need to do something! You have very low quality health potions left, next to no mana, and a scroll that can teleport you to the closest temple. Lucky you brought that along! Well, now YOU need to decide: Will these health potions hold me out in time? Do I have just enough mana to cast a spell? *Looks at stats and compares* What spell would be best? Will I get hit and die? Will I have enugh fatigue for success? Or should I just use the scroll? Is the fight lost?

It's up to you, and you will notice that you will come across these questions in your mind countless times in Morrowind. I have never asked myself these questions in the future titles.

It's these things that makes Morrowinds combat better. It makes you use your head, instead of being a zombie-brained dude just spamming the attack button over and over and win 95% of the time.