Diceroll combat

[VladiMatt]

When does it start to get better? I don't want to use a mod that makes me hit 100% of the time because I realize the game isn't designed around that (which is gods-awful design), but I'm also getting REALLY tired of missing every attack no matter how much stamina I have.

What can I even do at this point but find rats and mudcrabs and swing away til I eventually level up enough to actually hit other enemies? I really want to get into Morrowind, I've heard so many great things about it and I like oldschool RPGs that don't hold your hand, but hoooooooooooooly crap this is so hard to get into.

[Lobo de hielo]

First you do start out as a nobody. Why should nobodies be any good at anything.
Secondly, what character did you build. You can start with some very nice builds if you read the Morrowind book or asked at the start for ideas.
What build do you have and how far into the game are you?
The rats at the start get nearly everyone new to this game. Do not worry you are eventually going to become god like and then moan about how easy it all is.
Yes stamina is important, but Agility is more important.
Taking a weapon or skill as a major and adding to it with choosing either magic/ warrior etc (i forget) is a real good start.
Lets say you start as a Bosmer and choose the sneak skills and then choose a sign that adds agility, marksman of course is a major.
You are going to miss very little.
It all comes down to the build you start with....yes it is not easy, but did you want it to be. Do you want a game that holds your hand all the way.
This game is all about you, what can you do, you are all alone in a strange land. Do you have the balls. You make it without much help, it is a great achievement.

[VladiMatt]

Originally posted by slayor3000:

First you do start out as a nobody. Why should nobodies be any good at anything.

That's a poor excuse. Give me a sword IRL and despite having never used one in combat I can guarantee I could land more damaging blows on a stationary foe than an early game Morrowind PC could. It's fine to have some glancing blows or misses because of dodging or parrying or whatever, but to just MISS and MISS and MISS without any feedback is just bad design. Yeah, I know, hindsight is 20/20 and this game is old enough to vote, and I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before.

I'm a Nord barbarian with the enchanted sword you loot from that dude who straight YEETED himself into the sky outside Seyda Neen. I do enough damage when I can actually hit but it's so frustrating only being able to hit like once in every ten swings.

I don't want to use a guide to minmax my starting potential, I just want to play a Nord barbarian and not have it feel like I'm playing one in D&D with a -10 to hit with disadvantage. Again, I don't mind occasionally missing, but it's honestly hard to see why people like this game so much given how awful this diceroll combat is in the early game.

[Valden21]

The reason you don't hit much in melee combat is down to two possible things. The first is that your Fatigue is low. That affects everything you do, and if it's low, expect a lot of failures. The second is that your character's skill with that particular kind of weapon is low. Get it higher, either through using NPC trainers or from combat (or a combination of both methods), and you WILL get better. Low level with any skill= lots of early failures; and the reverse is also true. Morrowind isn't supposed to be about curbstomping every enemy right away; the curbstomping every enemy comes later. You WILL get there; it's just a matter of time that varies depending upon your build. As your skills improve, your number of successful attacks go up.

[VladiMatt]

Originally posted by Valden21:

The reason you don't hit much in melee combat is down to two possible things. The first is that your Fatigue is low. That affects everything you do, and if it's low, expect a lot of failures. The second is that your character's skill with that particular kind of weapon is low. Get it higher, either through using NPC trainers or from combat (or a combination of both methods), and you WILL get better. Low level with any skill= lots of early failures; and the reverse is also true. Morrowind isn't supposed to be about curbstomping every enemy right away; the curbstomping every enemy comes later. You WILL get there; it's just a matter of time that varies depending upon your build. As your skills improve, your number of successful attacks go up.

Stamina didn't seem to have that effect when I was playing earlier, I was missing just as many swings at near full stamina as I was at near empty. I guess my best course of action is to somehow save up a bunch of gold and train my long blade some more but I don't really know how I'm supposed to get gold if I can't even really kill things.

[Lobo de hielo]

I told you why you miss its called agility.
Agility + weapon skill + stamina
Low agility you will get hit all the time.
Who gives a ♥♥♥♥ what sword you have, what enchantments you have. It means f a l l without agility, weapon skill and stamina.
It all came down to whatever build you made and poor choices. End of.

[VladiMatt]

Originally posted by slayor3000:

I told you why you miss its called agility.
Agility + weapon skill + stamina
Low agility you will get hit all the time.
Who gives a ♥♥♥♥ what sword you have, what enchantments you have. It means f a l l without agility, weapon skill and stamina.
It all came down to whatever build you made and poor choices. End of.

I made poor choices by not minmaxing? Get the ♥♥♥♥ out of here lmao

[CidDaBird]

Originally posted by M@:

Originally posted by slayor3000:

I told you why you miss its called agility.
Agility + weapon skill + stamina
Low agility you will get hit all the time.
Who gives a ♥♥♥♥ what sword you have, what enchantments you have. It means f a l l without agility, weapon skill and stamina.
It all came down to whatever build you made and poor choices. End of.

I made poor choices by not minmaxing? Get the ♥♥♥♥ out of here lmao

Blood sports in morrowind, no way.

[Lobo de hielo]

I did not tell you to min/max just start a damn good build.
That is not min/maxing.
Ensuring you start with the best build you can is called having sense.
Min/maxing is pissing about making sure you get 5/5/5 at level ups which is not needed if you start with a good build.
So exactly what build/ birthsign etc did you choose? Curious to see how someone starts a Nord that gets beat up. lol.

[theo]

Originally posted by M@:

I like oldschool RPGs

But you don't like dice roll combat? Something doesn't add up here

[theo]

Originally posted by M@:

I'm a Nord barbarian with the enchanted sword

Default barbarian doesn't have long or short blades even as a minor skill. You don't need to minmax, just don't make blatantly stupid choices. Get an axe.

When I played Morrowind for the first time I've made the exact same mistake because I watched that movie with Arnold and barbarian+sword seemed like a perfect match for me. But I had an excuse of being 12 years old and unfamiliar with RPGs. And figuring it out quickly without the need to whine on the internet.

[teffy]

Originally posted by M@:

Originally posted by slayor3000:

I told you why you miss its called agility.
Agility + weapon skill + stamina
Low agility you will get hit all the time.
Who gives a ♥♥♥♥ what sword you have, what enchantments you have. It means f a l l without agility, weapon skill and stamina.
It all came down to whatever build you made and poor choices. End of.

I made poor choices by not minmaxing? Get the ♥♥♥♥ out of here lmao

it's not minmaxing, it's making a build. its the basics of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game. instead of arguing with people on the forums, read the manual to figure out what you need in major skills.
"i like oldschool rpgs" but you cant be bothered to put together a character sheet.
"get the ♥♥♥♥ out of here lmao"

[The Flying Rodent]

Originally posted by M@:

When does it start to get better? I don't want to use a mod that makes me hit 100% of the time because I realize the game isn't designed around that (which is gods-awful design), but I'm also getting REALLY tired of missing every attack no matter how much stamina I have.

What can I even do at this point but find rats and mudcrabs and swing away til I eventually level up enough to actually hit other enemies? I really want to get into Morrowind, I've heard so many great things about it and I like oldschool RPGs that don't hold your hand, but hoooooooooooooly crap this is so hard to get into.

Let's try and answer this question using numbers. People have alluded to the associated skills/abilities so far, but not the numbers. So let's bite the bullet and do some math, because that's ultimately what determines it all anyway.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Combat#Chance_to_Hit

Dice roll combat in Morrowind can be summed up as "Attacker's Hit Rate" - Defender's Dodge Chance" , as a percentage. So for e.g. 100% hit rate - 20% dodge chance = 80% chance to hit.

First, Dodge Chance is ((Agility/5) + (Luck/10)) * (0.75-1.25 depending on Fatigue level) + 'Sanctuary Magnitude' (as in, the spell effect called Sanctuary). So in order of importance from least to most: Luck, Agility, Fatigue Modifier (Sanctuary is rare).

Then, Hit Rate is (Weapon Skill + (Agility/5) + (Luck/10))*(0.75-1.25 depending on Fatigue level) + Fortify Attack - Blind Magnitude (unless game isn't patched, in which case this is added because its borked). In order of importance from least to most: Luck, Agility, Fatigue Level, Weapon Skill. Fortify Attack and Blind are rare, though Fortify Attack can be accessed from the Warrior Sign (10pts), or the Berserk Orcish racial power (100pts).

Notice how Fatigue level is important both for hit chance 'and' dodge chance. It effectively slaps a '60-100% modifier' onto just about everything related to your character, not just physical combat, so it's worth keeping it full as much as possible.

So with this in mind, your first question: 'When does it start to get better?'

Let's take 'better' to mean a '51% net hit rate', because this means 'more hits land than miss'. Good place to start!

The Agility and Luck scores of opponents, will most likely be closely to your own, and not really add that much. An Agility and Luck of 100 means a (100/5 + 100/10)* 1.25= 37.5% dodge chance at Full Fatigue, and an Agility and Luck of 20 means a (20/5 + 20/10) * 1.25 = 7.5% chance to dodge at Full Fatigue. So an 80 point difference in both Agility AND Luck, only equates to a maximum of a 30% dodge chance difference. Considering this is the same as 24 points of weapon skill at Full Fatigue (24 * 1.25 = 30), Dodge chance therefore doesn't really enter into the weapon hit equation 'that' much.

Let's just assume everything has 50 Agility and 50 Luck, or a baseline dodge chance of 20% (it's actually 18.75 but 20 is a nicer number lol). Let's also assume that everyone never gets tired (including you!), and always fights at Full Fatigue.

If this is the case, then Hit Rate needs to reach about 70% , to get a net hit rate of about 50%. Having a bit of extra Agility and Luck will help your cause ... but nowhere near as much as weapon skill.

If 'you yourself' start at 50 Agility and 50 Luck , the hit rate with '5 weapon skill' is (50/5 + 50/10 + 5) * 1.25 = 25%, or a net hit rate of only 5 %. This is why if you're trying to wield a weapon with only 5 weapon skill, you miss a lot, even at Full Fatigue.

If you start with 50 Agility/Luck, the hit rate with '50 weapon skill' is (15 + 50)*1.25 = 81.25, or about 62ish% net hit rate. So with 50 weapon skill, we're over the halfway mark!

---

So what's the TL'DR? To get a net hit rate around 50%, you probably need 40-45 weapon skill.

At level 1, this is possible only by selecting certain races with weapon boosts, and those weapons as major skills. Nords receive +10 to Axe and Blunt Weapon, so if either of these were selected as Major Skills as well the Combat Specialisation taken (+5 to combat skills), then these would start at 45.

If you want to get a weapon skill to 45 from 5, and not just rely on 'min-max build supremecy'? Then you basically have two options:

- Airswing at Mudcrabs and Rats,
- Buy training.

Not exactly 'free choice', but it's what 2002-era simulation-focused Bethesda has left us with, and we've all just adapted so we can get on with getting lost in the 'real' attractions to Morrowind: The Lore/Dialogue, and a magic system that allows you to jump the length of the map without dying.

Personally, I'd just swallow the bitter pill and get used to the idea of buying training to avoid yourself the headache of airswinging at animals for several hours. It's not limited by level in Morrowind, so if you have a big enough pile of money, you can buy as much training as you want. There are a ton of 'mid level' trainers in Morrowind who will train weapon skills into the 30's at least, which is enough to manage a consistent enough hit rate to increase them by yourself from there.

[BeardedBear87]

clearly this isn't a game for you, and your not cut out even for this comment section.
people offer you the proper solutions but you are simply refusing them. this sort of RPG is old-school, as in you actually have to do a bit more extra thinking.

[The Flying Rodent]

Originally posted by BeardedBear87:

clearly this isn't a game for you, and your not cut out even for this comment section.
people offer you the proper solutions but you are simply refusing them. this sort of RPG is old-school, as in you actually have to do a bit more extra thinking.

I think the OP just underestimates how influential ‘starting weapon skill’ impacts hit chance. Having a ‘default hit chance’ of only 5-10% for a weapon you lack the training in is pretty jarring, even by ‘dice roll rpg standards’.

5% hit chance is the same as ‘only hitting on a 20 roll’ in a d20 system. That’s a pretty sh*t ‘default hit rate’, so I can understand where people get frustrated, lol.

But again: there are ways around it, either through planned character building, or purchasing competence from strangers, or swatting at fauna for hours. What you choose out of these, is up to you!

[meheezen]

since you started as a "Nord" and selected "Barbarian" as your class; you start with 45 Axe, 45 Blunt and 15 Long Blade.

do yourself a favor and buy a Axe/Mace/Club from Arrile (the local high-elf merchant)