Hunter spear OP?

[76561199046499066]

How good is a hunter's spear? Is it an OP, despite the ebony staff and saber on the absorption of health? Is it one of the top three weapons in the game?

[psychotron666]

You mean the spear at the end of the bloodmoon DLC? Yes, it's one of the best weapons in the game. No it's not op because before it existed there was no good spear weapons.

Also it requires beating bloodmoon DLC, which is the highest level DLC meant to be done after the main quest and tribunal DLC. So there's not much challenges left for you after you get it

[76561199046499066]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

You mean the spear at the end of the bloodmoon DLC? Yes, it's one of the best weapons in the game. No it's not op because before it existed there was no good spear weapons.

Also it requires beating bloodmoon DLC, which is the highest level DLC meant to be done after the main quest and tribunal DLC. So there's not much challenges left for you after you get it

But the Hunter himself is an OP, although the weapon class is rubbish. Do you know a way to quickly get a weapon at level 1? Is it possible to somehow skip all the plot tasks of the supplement and quickly kill Hirsin?

[psychotron666]

Originally posted by Свинорыл:

Originally posted by psychotron666:

You mean the spear at the end of the bloodmoon DLC? Yes, it's one of the best weapons in the game. No it's not op because before it existed there was no good spear weapons.

Also it requires beating bloodmoon DLC, which is the highest level DLC meant to be done after the main quest and tribunal DLC. So there's not much challenges left for you after you get it

But the Hunter himself is an OP, although the weapon class is rubbish. Do you know a way to quickly get a weapon at level 1? Is it possible to somehow skip all the plot tasks of the supplement and quickly kill Hirsin?

Lol no. That is the hardest quest in the game, and is meant for level 30+ characters. You still have to do all the bloodmoon main quests to get that spear.

You could console command cheat it in, but then again the game would be too easy from the beginning

[76561199046499066]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Originally posted by Свинорыл:

But the Hunter himself is an OP, although the weapon class is rubbish. Do you know a way to quickly get a weapon at level 1? Is it possible to somehow skip all the plot tasks of the supplement and quickly kill Hirsin?

Lol no. That is the hardest quest in the game, and is meant for level 30+ characters. You still have to do all the bloodmoon main quests to get that spear.

You could console command cheat it in, but then again the game would be too easy from the beginning

I saw how the guy passed the addition at level 1-it's scary, but are there any bugs and secrets that could speed up this process and make it look like killing Dagot Ur after 10 minutes from the start of the game?

[76561199046499066]

I myself made a plan to quickly obtain Aevar's mace, but it was quite easy. I want that damn halberd...

[Ghost]

Originally posted by Свинорыл:

I saw how the guy passed the addition at level 1-it's scary, but are there any bugs and secrets that could speed up this process and make it look like killing Dagot Ur after 10 minutes from the start of the game?

There are so many bugs/exploits that could make it a breeze, but at that point you may as well just save your time and cheat instead of spending however many hours of your life on it.

As for secrets, If you can use a bow I'd suggest the Ebony Arrows of Slaying, but you'd need to overcome Hircine's 50% reflect with your own Resist Magicka.
100% for a couple seconds shouldn't be too hard.
Alternatively, a Breton with the Cuirass of Savior's Hide shouldn't have any problems.

[The Flying Rodent]

Originally posted by Свинорыл:

Originally posted by psychotron666:

You mean the spear at the end of the bloodmoon DLC? Yes, it's one of the best weapons in the game. No it's not op because before it existed there was no good spear weapons.

Also it requires beating bloodmoon DLC, which is the highest level DLC meant to be done after the main quest and tribunal DLC. So there's not much challenges left for you after you get it

But the Hunter himself is an OP, although the weapon class is rubbish. Do you know a way to quickly get a weapon at level 1? Is it possible to somehow skip all the plot tasks of the supplement and quickly kill Hirsin?

Assuming that you can get into the castle: Run past the werewolves under Invisibility, then use Levitate + Marksman to pick off Karstaag & Hircine from a distance. Easy money.

---

As for your original question: Depends what you define as OP.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/22320/discussions/0/3046109410078339548/

Here's a silly long discussion on a similar topic.


https://steamcommunity.com/app/22320/discussions/0/3046109410078339548/#c3046109410082212328

And here's a comment mentioning 'Max physical DPS capabilities' of Sunder/Aevar's Mace/Hunter Spear. Technically speaking, the Hunter spear has the highest 'minimum physical DPS' out of any weapon in the game , i.e. when just spamming the attack button & not drawing the weapon back.

As for the Ebony Staff: It's worth mentioning that instant 300 damage 44ft wide fireballs (Weak 100% Magic + Weak 100% Fire + 100 Fire) are amongst the possibilities for enchantment, and blow every other weapon's possible 'DPS' out of the water.

[76561199046499066]

Originally posted by The Flying Rodent:

Originally posted by Свинорыл:

But the Hunter himself is an OP, although the weapon class is rubbish. Do you know a way to quickly get a weapon at level 1? Is it possible to somehow skip all the plot tasks of the supplement and quickly kill Hirsin?

Assuming that you can get into the castle: Run past the werewolves under Invisibility, then use Levitate + Marksman to pick off Karstaag & Hircine from a distance. Easy money.

---

As for your original question: Depends what you define as OP.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/22320/discussions/0/3046109410078339548/

Here's a silly long discussion on a similar topic.


https://steamcommunity.com/app/22320/discussions/0/3046109410078339548/#c3046109410082212328

And here's a comment mentioning 'Max physical DPS capabilities' of Sunder/Aevar's Mace/Hunter Spear. Technically speaking, the Hunter spear has the highest 'minimum physical DPS' out of any weapon in the game , i.e. when just spamming the attack button & not drawing the weapon back.

As for the Ebony Staff: It's worth mentioning that instant 300 damage 44ft wide fireballs (Weak 100% Magic + Weak 100% Fire + 100 Fire) are amongst the possibilities for enchantment, and blow every other weapon's possible 'DPS' out of the water.

If the target does not have 100% resistance to the element or high reflection. Although even the average will reduce to zero all your damage from the stick.

[The Flying Rodent]

Originally posted by Свинорыл:

Originally posted by The Flying Rodent:

Assuming that you can get into the castle: Run past the werewolves under Invisibility, then use Levitate + Marksman to pick off Karstaag & Hircine from a distance. Easy money.

---

As for your original question: Depends what you define as OP.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/22320/discussions/0/3046109410078339548/

Here's a silly long discussion on a similar topic.


https://steamcommunity.com/app/22320/discussions/0/3046109410078339548/#c3046109410082212328

And here's a comment mentioning 'Max physical DPS capabilities' of Sunder/Aevar's Mace/Hunter Spear. Technically speaking, the Hunter spear has the highest 'minimum physical DPS' out of any weapon in the game , i.e. when just spamming the attack button & not drawing the weapon back.

As for the Ebony Staff: It's worth mentioning that instant 300 damage 44ft wide fireballs (Weak 100% Magic + Weak 100% Fire + 100 Fire) are amongst the possibilities for enchantment, and blow every other weapon's possible 'DPS' out of the water.

If the target does not have 100% resistance to the element or high reflection. Although even the average will reduce to zero all your damage from the stick.

Against opponents 100% resistant to Fire, then the damage will be reduced to 200/hit instead of 300/hit. The only protection against the Fire Resistance being lowered is 100% Resist Magicka, which is unique to Helseth (who has 100% Reflect, so kinda moot) and Gedna Relvel (who will still take 100 Fire Damage a hit).

Reflect is probably more of an issue for such a staff, but then not everything has Reflect. And regardless, the argument still stands: the ‘DPS’ of an AoE 300/hit weapon, even if it dealt 0 physical damage, is gonna easily outshine the ‘total damage ‘ of any high-physical weapon (such as Hunter Spear/Aevar/Mace), particularly against groups of opponents.

That said, to be ‘technically’ correct … nothing beats the DPS of Fortifying Strength to dumb levels (10,000+) via Sujamma etc. , at which point the Fork of Horripulation could be considered ‘an OP weapon’.

And then there’s ‘The Lockpick’.

[76561199046499066]

Originally posted by The Flying Rodent:

Originally posted by Свинорыл:

If the target does not have 100% resistance to the element or high reflection. Although even the average will reduce to zero all your damage from the stick.

Against opponents 100% resistant to Fire, then the damage will be reduced to 200/hit instead of 300/hit. The only protection against the Fire Resistance being lowered is 100% Resist Magicka, which is unique to Helseth (who has 100% Reflect, so kinda moot) and Gedna Relvel (who will still take 100 Fire Damage a hit).

Reflect is probably more of an issue for such a staff, but then not everything has Reflect. And regardless, the argument still stands: the ‘DPS’ of an AoE 300/hit weapon, even if it dealt 0 physical damage, is gonna easily outshine the ‘total damage ‘ of any high-physical weapon (such as Hunter Spear/Aevar/Mace), particularly against groups of opponents.

That said, to be ‘technically’ correct … nothing beats the DPS of Fortifying Strength to dumb levels (10,000+) via Sujamma etc. , at which point the Fork of Horripulation could be considered ‘an OP weapon’.

And then there’s ‘The Lockpick’.

Is fire better than absorbing health for a staff? But after all, 100% resistance to magic or the elements completely protects the target from such damage. 100% protection cannot be lowered, if you use a staff for a vulnerability of 200 or 300, the mechanics of protection work easier: 100% protection cannot be overcome, even if you harden the staff for 10,000 vulnerabilities, am I wrong?

[76561199046499066]

Originally posted by The Flying Rodent:

Originally posted by Свинорыл:

If the target does not have 100% resistance to the element or high reflection. Although even the average will reduce to zero all your damage from the stick.

Against opponents 100% resistant to Fire, then the damage will be reduced to 200/hit instead of 300/hit. The only protection against the Fire Resistance being lowered is 100% Resist Magicka, which is unique to Helseth (who has 100% Reflect, so kinda moot) and Gedna Relvel (who will still take 100 Fire Damage a hit).

Reflect is probably more of an issue for such a staff, but then not everything has Reflect. And regardless, the argument still stands: the ‘DPS’ of an AoE 300/hit weapon, even if it dealt 0 physical damage, is gonna easily outshine the ‘total damage ‘ of any high-physical weapon (such as Hunter Spear/Aevar/Mace), particularly against groups of opponents.

That said, to be ‘technically’ correct … nothing beats the DPS of Fortifying Strength to dumb levels (10,000+) via Sujamma etc. , at which point the Fork of Horripulation could be considered ‘an OP weapon’.

And then there’s ‘The Lockpick’.

What do you recommend for a warrior in heavy armor with the role of a polearm weapon: an ebony fire staff or a hunter's spear? I'm going to go through the entire game and addons with all bosses with only one weapon without any substitutions at maximum difficulty. I will increase my strength to 500-600 in any case, so what will be better?

[76561199046499066]

And Almalexia she is immune to fire, the staff is useless against her. I need one weapon for the whole game, is it really possible to pass all the add-ons and bosses with a staff of fire and vulnerability to fire?

[76561199046499066]

I realized that the best choice is a staff for vulnerability to the element and the element itself, but will fire be better than frost or electricity?

[The Flying Rodent]

Originally posted by Свинорыл:

What do you recommend for a warrior in heavy armor with the role of a polearm weapon: an ebony fire staff or a hunter's spear? I'm going to go through the entire game and addons with all bosses with only one weapon without any substitutions at maximum difficulty. I will increase my strength to 500-600 in any case, so what will be better?

If you're gonna 'increase strength to 500-600' (which basically requires potions, glitches or a boatload of Enchanted gear totally devoted to Fortifying Strength), then you're probably just better going the high physical damage option. If you're going to specialise in Spears, then probably Devil's Spear to start (has Bound Spear on Cast), then Spear of Bitter Mercy after that, and then finally Hunter's Spear.

The 'Fire Damage' staff example was simply that, an example. If you compare a high physical damage weapon (at most 90 a hit), to a high end enchanted staff (dealing 300 a hit even on short swings), the staff has more DPS. If however, you then throw in the caveat 'but what if I have 500 strength from multiple custom enchanted items', then you're not talking purely about your weapon's DPS anymore; you're talking about ENCHANTED ITEMS. Which, ironically, is the exact point that the author of the thread that I linked earlier, completely missed! (somehow 'copious amounts of Fortify Strength items' didn't count as 'magic', for whatever reason... )

Within the context of a character with 500 strength, then sure, a high physical damage weapon is going to outperform a magic staff. But that's most likely (assuming no potions/exploits) at the cost of their Enchanted item slots potentially boosting the character in some other way, which the 'Staff Warrior' doesn't require (though that said, personal immunity to Magicka is quite useful for a staff user). The staff user could probably dedicate their surplus enchant points to, say, 100% Chameleon. Or 100 Sanctuary + Fortify Agility. And at that point, who cares how much damage they deal, lol.

Anyway. Back to the original point...

With what you have described (i.e. a character wearing lots of Fortify Strength items), then I'd go with a bog standard physical weapon. If however, you wanted to create a 'staff warrior', or perhaps an 'Ebony Scimitar Warrior' if you'd like some physical damage in the mix, then there are a range of options for Enchanting, not just Fire (though Fire/Frost/Absorb Health are probably being the most consistently useful). But: I'd probably go something like Breton/Dark Elf/Nord at the same time for the built in magical resistances, to more easily protect yourself from reflections, and expect to dedicate some of your items to elemental protection rather than simply 'Fortify Strength'.

[76561199046499066]

Originally posted by The Flying Rodent:

Originally posted by Свинорыл:

What do you recommend for a warrior in heavy armor with the role of a polearm weapon: an ebony fire staff or a hunter's spear? I'm going to go through the entire game and addons with all bosses with only one weapon without any substitutions at maximum difficulty. I will increase my strength to 500-600 in any case, so what will be better?

If you're gonna 'increase strength to 500-600' (which basically requires potions, glitches or a boatload of Enchanted gear totally devoted to Fortifying Strength), then you're probably just better going the high physical damage option. If you're going to specialise in Spears, then probably Devil's Spear to start (has Bound Spear on Cast), then Spear of Bitter Mercy after that, and then finally Hunter's Spear.

The 'Fire Damage' staff example was simply that, an example. If you compare a high physical damage weapon (at most 90 a hit), to a high end enchanted staff (dealing 300 a hit even on short swings), the staff has more DPS. If however, you then throw in the caveat 'but what if I have 500 strength from multiple custom enchanted items', then you're not talking purely about your weapon's DPS anymore; you're talking about ENCHANTED ITEMS. Which, ironically, is the exact point that the author of the thread that I linked earlier, completely missed! (somehow 'copious amounts of Fortify Strength items' didn't count as 'magic', for whatever reason... )

Within the context of a character with 500 strength, then sure, a high physical damage weapon is going to outperform a magic staff. But that's most likely (assuming no potions/exploits) at the cost of their Enchanted item slots potentially boosting the character in some other way, which the 'Staff Warrior' doesn't require (though that said, personal immunity to Magicka is quite useful for a staff user). The staff user could probably dedicate their surplus enchant points to, say, 100% Chameleon. Or 100 Sanctuary + Fortify Agility. And at that point, who cares how much damage they deal, lol.

Anyway. Back to the original point...

With what you have described (i.e. a character wearing lots of Fortify Strength items), then I'd go with a bog standard physical weapon. If however, you wanted to create a 'staff warrior', or perhaps an 'Ebony Scimitar Warrior' if you'd like some physical damage in the mix, then there are a range of options for Enchanting, not just Fire (though Fire/Frost/Absorb Health are probably being the most consistently useful). But: I'd probably go something like Breton/Dark Elf/Nord at the same time for the built in magical resistances, to more easily protect yourself from reflections, and expect to dedicate some of your items to elemental protection rather than simply 'Fortify Strength'.

Thank you for the detailed answer. I will choose a Nordling with a Clavicus helmet, an ebony chainmail and Daedric armor in the remaining parts, I will also take an elegant mantle. But the main question for me remains the role of a warrior: after all, the staff in the game is not a real hand-to-hand weapon, it's just a catalyst for magic with a ridiculous damage of 16 on impact. The hunter's spear is what can be called the embodiment of a halberd, because in Morrowind spears and halberds are technically the same thing. Passwords, probably a spear would suit my muscular halberdier better.