Beth's stock Nightblade (Stop replying this was answered days ago)

[Mentos]

Are Security and Sneak just included so that the player can use those skills before they learn the necessary spells in Alteration and Illusion? And why Unarmored? As a minor skill that won't do much and you'll be wearing Light armor anyway!

I ran a version of the Night Blade unsuccessfully, remaking a new one and debating on Security. I know Sneak is pretty much a broken skill in vaniilla Morrowind so that's obviously not happening.

For the purposes of building my character I always choose major skills based on what I'm going to need the most early on. So they are mostly focused on primary combat skills, and core concepts. So combat, and Illusion. Another question in mind is whether or not I should take Block. I never used it back in the day but that was because I was a 2h weapon user. And if it is recommended, is it worth a major slot?

Any reason why I would want to place Light Armor and Block as minor instead of major? Given my desire to be an effective combatant without anyone sending me a wellness check while I'm doing and armor skill grind?

[psychotron666]

What's wrong with sneak? It's quite powerful at later levels, you can just sneak kill people while they run around with no idea where you are. Or do you mean that it's way too cheap?

Also after all these years I find for builds, I like putting my fast leveling skills, like long blade, axe, destruction (really my attack skills that I will use constantly) etc as minors, and my passive or slow leveling skills like armour skills, block etc as major skills, if just for that extra buff to begin with so I don't have to train them to make them useable.

Otherwise I find by mid to late game, a typical battle mage type build for example I'm sitting here with like a 95 long blade, a 78 destruction, an 80 restoration, a 86 acrobatics, (it's a habit from 20 years ago, I constantly train my acrobatics while travelling), while my minor skills I got a 52 heavy armour, 28 illusion, 33 block, 36 alteration, 31 mysticism.
Basically they are so far behind they don't really do much at my current level to help out at all, so they just kind of never catch up. It's kind of how it ends up going if I make my passive/not as used abilities as minors instead of majors. My long blade and destruction etc (frequently used skills) are gonna be fine as minors and not only catch up by surpass some majors quite quickly.

But yes block is amazing it blocks ALL damage from the hit, at the cost of stamina and shield durability. Definitely worth a major IMO.

But honestly there's no reason to take security if you're going to actively use alteration, you don't even need a comparatively high level (or items like better lock picks) to open the best locks. It's only traps as your problem, and honestly if you're a mage with restoration, I just take the traps damage or curse and heal then with spells.

[Mentos]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

What's wrong with sneak? It's quite powerful at later levels, you can just sneak kill people while they run around with no idea where you are. Or do you mean that it's way too cheap?

Also after all these years I find for builds, I like putting my fast leveling skills, like long blade, axe, destruction (really my attack skills that I will use constantly) etc as minors, and my passive or slow leveling skills like armour skills, block etc as major skills, if just for that extra buff to begin with so I don't have to train them to make them useable.

Otherwise I find by mid to late game, a typical battle mage type build for example I'm sitting here with like a 95 long blade, a 78 destruction, an 80 restoration, a 86 acrobatics, (it's a habit from 20 years ago, I constantly train my acrobatics while travelling), while my minor skills I got a 52 heavy armour, 28 illusion, 33 block, 36 alteration, 31 mysticism.
Basically they are so far behind they don't really do much at my current level to help out at all, so they just kind of never catch up. It's kind of how it ends up going if I make my passive/not as used abilities as minors instead of majors. My long blade and destruction etc (frequently used skills) are gonna be fine as minors and not only catch up by surpass some majors quite quickly.

But yes block is amazing it blocks ALL damage from the hit, at the cost of stamina and shield durability. Definitely worth a major IMO.

But honestly there's no reason to take security if you're going to actively use alteration, you don't even need a comparatively high level (or items like better lock picks) to open the best locks. It's only traps as your problem, and honestly if you're a mage with restoration, I just take the traps damage or curse and heal then with spells.

I took that mainly from some online sources. Again playing as what I did, I didn't have many opportunities to use Sneak. People have said that there are too many obstacles being weighed in on it's success, supposedly even the NPC's armor was being taken into account IIRC what they said.

So..you put your main skills in back..interesting. I wouldn't have thought of that one. Where would you put Sneak?

This is the first thing that comes to mind:

Major
Light Armor
Block
Enchant
Mysticism
Alteration

Minor
Short Blade
Destruction
Restoration
Sneak
Illusion

Illusion/Mysticism would be a coin toss here in my mind but I figure I'll be using Light alot.

My Acrobatics will no doubt be high too, as I do the same thing.

[psychotron666]

It's picking pockets that's basically broken in the base game because it actually doesn't take into account your skill due to a bug but the Morrowind code patch fixes that. But sneak itself is otherwise useful as it allows for critical hits, and at high levels you can sneak right up to people and gank them.

But your skills there look pretty good. It's a solid build I'd run. If you're regularly using fatigue restoring spells like I do when I'm jumping everywhere, restoration catches up quick as a minor, but that's only if you're using it frequently (I like making a slow regeneration fatigue spell that lasts around 30 seconds so I can upkeep my stamina while running or jumping around).

Like I said I reverse my major and minors simply because of how the natural progression with my play style works, it might be different for yourself of course so don't take what I'm saying as the only way or whatever especially if you play differently.
I just personally find I make those passive abilities more useful, and my main abilities catch up right away anyways.

As for where I'd put sneak, if I wanted a natural progression I'd probably make it a major. But you don't have to, because you can level sneak very easily by sneaking in a corner, press q to auto walk and go take a bathroom break (someone has to be nearby and not detect you, usually in a place where someone is a floor directly above or below you). But again that's just me and my quirk of putting passive skills in major slots for that initial boost to keep them relevant

[theo]

Default classes ain't supposed to be minmaxed and efficient. Nightblade has sneak, security and unarmored because nightblades are trained in these skills in the lore.

[Mentos]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

It's picking pockets that's basically broken in the base game because it actually doesn't take into account your skill due to a bug but the Morrowind code patch fixes that. But sneak itself is otherwise useful as it allows for critical hits, and at high levels you can sneak right up to people and gank them.

But your skills there look pretty good. It's a solid build I'd run. If you're regularly using fatigue restoring spells like I do when I'm jumping everywhere, restoration catches up quick as a minor, but that's only if you're using it frequently (I like making a slow regeneration fatigue spell that lasts around 30 seconds so I can upkeep my stamina while running or jumping around).

Like I said I reverse my major and minors simply because of how the natural progression with my play style works, it might be different for yourself of course so don't take what I'm saying as the only way or whatever especially if you play differently.
I just personally find I make those passive abilities more useful, and my main abilities catch up right away anyways.

As for where I'd put sneak, if I wanted a natural progression I'd probably make it a major. But you don't have to, because you can level sneak very easily by sneaking in a corner, press q to auto walk and go take a bathroom break (someone has to be nearby and not detect you, usually in a place where someone is a floor directly above or below you). But again that's just me and my quirk of putting passive skills in major slots for that initial boost to keep them relevant

Thank you. ATM I'm spending to train sneak up from minor, and mixing in some hands on by casting invisibility. Shame about that pick pocket. Going to make this Dwemer artifact quest tough without killing him.

Originally posted by theo:

Default classes ain't supposed to be minmaxed and efficient. Nightblade has sneak, security and unarmored because nightblades are trained in these skills in the lore.

I feared as much.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally posted by realShitcoin:

Illusion/Mysticism would be a coin toss here in my mind but I figure I'll be using Light alot.

Have you considered Night Eye instead of Light? The two effects have the same base cost.

Even if only for RP purposes, since light level does not affect Sneak in MW, someone trying to be sneaky would likely want to enhance their own vision instead of making everything (or themself) brighter.

[Mentos]

Originally posted by WingedKagouti:

Originally posted by realShitcoin:

Illusion/Mysticism would be a coin toss here in my mind but I figure I'll be using Light alot.

Have you considered Night Eye instead of Light? The two effects have the same base cost.

Even if only for RP purposes, since light level does not affect Sneak in MW, someone trying to be sneaky would likely want to enhance their own vision instead of making everything (or themself) brighter.

Good RP point. I mainly prefer light (since it won't affect sneak) because of my vision. I have a hard time spotting small objects on screen because of my heavily scratched glasses. Light makes them standout more to me.

Gave the before mentioned build a few hours in practice. This is one thing I do like about this game is that it is actually fun to restart the game and try out things before going on a long adventure. Most games are not in my opinion. Modern RPGs are moving more and more towards the figure it out later formula. Next thing you know you've made some error half way through the game and either have to restart then, or download a mod. It's not fun at all to replay half of a game because of a single issue you could have worked out at the beginning like in Morrowind.

I've learned a few things about the build, and decided to revise again.

Primary Attributes: Willpower/*Agility
Major: Light Armor, Block, **Athletics, Sneak, Restoration
Minor: Light Blade, Destruction, Alteration, Mysticism, Illusion

This might be a bit different than what we talked about. I wanted more movement speed for combat, and sneak NEEDED to be up top. Update: Build works.

[lonetrav]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

... If you're regularly using fatigue restoring spells like I do when I'm jumping everywhere, restoration catches up quick as a minor, but that's only if you're using it frequently (I like making a slow regeneration fatigue spell that lasts around 30 seconds so I can upkeep my stamina while running or jumping around). ...

Sounds like traveling keeps you quite busy - no time to enjoy the scenery! :-)
And for the method to succeed you can't use fast traveling much, can you?
This is not meant to be a negative comment. I tried it myself a long time ago, but gave up soon: It works, but I'm too lazy. :-)

Originally posted by realShitcoin:

Are Security and Sneak just included so that the player can use those skills before they learn the necessary spells in Alteration and Illusion? And why Unarmored? As a minor skill that won't do much and you'll be wearing Light armor anyway!...

It's probably simply role-playing (and "playing economy", I suppose). You won't have to use, say, Security once you can use the appropriate spells, but then you'd have to worry about the magicka required to cast them (this may not bother you, but it would bother me, for example). You could also say that a high Security value saves you having to spend magicka to cast Open spells. And you can use Alteration for other purposes, too, not least for flying, falling and diving.
Unarmoured and Light Armour are both minor skills - you can choose which one you prefer, or choose both for different (role-playing) purposes (and bear in mind that Strength is neither major nor minor).
Why do you say "you'll be wearing Light Armour anyway"? You don't have to (unless you want to). I don't know how well it would work for a Nightblade, but for a mage Unarmoured is definitely viable (which isn't saying that I would necessarily choose it as a major or minor skill for a mage - depends on how you want to play your mage).

[Mentos]

I actually did end up rerolling. I was finding the process of raising skill levels of so many magic schools extremely tedious. On light armor, I don't know why anyone would choose unarmored over it. Unarmored just gives you fewer options for defensive enchants. Even as a pure mage I would wear light armor lol.

This is what I went with instead:
Dark Elf
Custom Agent
Strength/Agility
The Lady
Major: Light Armor, Block, Sneak, Speechcraft, Restoration
Minor: Light Blade, Marksman, Security, Athletics, Mysticism.

Currently lv3, Maxing +5 strength through Acrobatics with every level. Class is alot less tedious and was more ready to go from the start. I don't have to train Restoration, so only Mysticism needs to be powered. I don't really use marksman all that much, except to throw knives at Cliff Racers. Destruction is better than marksman, but I don't have enough Magicka to make it viable so I dropped that too.

[lonetrav]

Originally posted by realShitcoin:

... I don't know why anyone would choose unarmored over it. ...

"Anyone"? A very general statement. Are you saying that there are generally "right" or "wrong" ways to play this game? I understand why YOU don't want to choose Unarmoured, and it's fine for YOU (and probably many others, too).

I give you one reason: For roleplaying reasons. If someone interprets the role of a Nightblade to act without wearing armour, then it's this player's decision. And like I said in my previous post, Strength is neither a major nor a minor skill of a Nightblade. Not wearing armour means saving weight. Another reason could be that playing without armour is considered to be more interesting (for example, in the sense of more challenging).
Finally, a mage might choose Unarmoured simply because he doesn't have to use armour to enjoy and be successful in this game.

I myself haven't played Morrowind without armour, nor have I ever considered choosing Unarmoured as a major or minor skill - but I may actually give it a try, just to find out how it plays.
With that said, I did play a mage in Oblivion with the self-imposed rule to never wear armour, not even bound armour. The guy focused on ranged spells and kept his distance from the enemies (as far as possible). I enjoyed this game very much and completed the main quest at a level between 30 and 35.
May sound crazy for you - but please accept that games, especially the TES games, can be enjoyed in more than one way, and in ways you would never choose.

[theo]

Yeah I don't know why anyone would want to minmax in a 20 years old single player RPG

[The Great Cornholio]

nightblade without thieving skills is just a mage

[Mentos]

The hostilities crowd was out and about last night. Fellas just because we're snowed in doesn't mean we need to take it out on Steam Discussions! I will not be responding to those comments.

Originally posted by The Great Cornholio:

nightblade without thieving skills is just a mage

Mage with a sword really. As a class they are supposed to get their thieving from Alteration and Illusion, though as pointed out earlier Sneak is still useful anyway.

[lonetrav]

Originally posted by realShitcoin:

The hostilities crowd was out and about last night ...

... and I missed it! What a shame! :-)

[madgamer2]

Originally posted by realShitcoin:

Are Security and Sneak just included so that the player can use those skills before they learn the necessary spells in Alteration and Illusion? And why Unarmored? As a minor skill that won't do much and you'll be wearing Light armor anyway!

I ran a version of the Night Blade unsuccessfully, remaking a new one and debating on Security. I know Sneak is pretty much a broken skill in vaniilla Morrowind so that's obviously not happening.

For the purposes of building my character I always choose major skills based on what I'm going to need the most early on. So they are mostly focused on primary combat skills, and core concepts. So combat, and Illusion. Another question in mind is whether or not I should take Block. I never used it back in the day but that was because I was a 2h weapon user. And if it is recommended, is it worth a major slot?

Any reason why I would want to place Light Armor and Block as minor instead of major? Given my desire to be an effective combatant without anyone sending me a wellness check while I'm doing and armor skill grind?

BTW sneak is easy to use because all you need to do is use the sneak movement mode. Just for the record I am not a great user of wizards due to slow reflex's and old age. I often wonder if there are any players over the age of 20 that do not build a mage avitar