The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

How is the leveling system when compared to oblivion?
I remember playing morrowind way back on the xbox original and having a blast but I honestly don't remember too much about how the game worked besides the combat being hit chance with skill level and a few other things but I honestly can't remember much about the leveling system.

A bit ago I went back to try out oblivion and I was very disappointed, other then a few simple graphical mods and fix's the game was super unstable, but the real killer was the leveling system and enemies just becoming big fat sword sponges. I know morrowind doesn't have as extensive of a level scaling issue as oblivion being rather that some dungeons and areas were just do dangerous for you to go to for a while (which i think is much cooler then just scaling everything) but I remember at a certain point someone just told me in oblivion to not even put my actual skills as my class skills so I never level up.

So what are the quirks of the leveling system in morrowind? Is it much better then oblivion or are there things I should know before going into it?
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Visar 1-14 av 14 kommentarer
Minari99 19 feb, 2023 @ 15:32 
"There is no scaling and much more limited leveling. Many caves and ruins have fixed-level inhabitants. The creatures that spawn and the loot you find in crates depend on your level, but all creatures and attributes have a static level and higher level creatures never completely replace the low level ones. As a result, low level characters will have a much harder time, but high level characters will actually have it easier. No NPCs have leveled armor or weapons, what they have is what they will always have. Caves and ruins become less profitable as you level up, save for random loot."

"All rewards in form of gold, Artifacts and Items are level-independent, and therefore fixed."

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/915084-the-elder-scrolls-iii-morrowind-game-of-the-year-edition/54959611
Ursprungligen skrivet av Minari99:
"There is no scaling and much more limited leveling. Many caves and ruins have fixed-level inhabitants. The creatures that spawn and the loot you find in crates depend on your level, but all creatures and attributes have a static level and higher level creatures never completely replace the low level ones. As a result, low level characters will have a much harder time, but high level characters will actually have it easier. No NPCs have leveled armor or weapons, what they have is what they will always have. Caves and ruins become less profitable as you level up, save for random loot."

"All rewards in form of gold, Artifacts and Items are level-independent, and therefore fixed."

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/915084-the-elder-scrolls-iii-morrowind-game-of-the-year-edition/54959611
Okay so the scaling situation is much better I'm glad to hear that, guess that mostly deals with the leveling system them.
psychotron666 19 feb, 2023 @ 15:56 
Yeah it's not oblivion, which world level scaling is probably the worst of any RPG I've played.

The leveling up system is the same, but enemies don't level up with you, all that changes is spawns might spawn stronger creatures and random loot in dungeons can be better.
Yzal 19 feb, 2023 @ 16:12 
Basically the same, but without Oblivion's level scalling that makes levelling up a disadvantage.
Winblows 19 feb, 2023 @ 22:08 
it works fine, you dont have to be meta but you can, my only advice is to decide on your class, chose 1 weapon 1 armor, and everything else you want, theres no reason to select multiple weapons and armor

I believe being meta is selecting things you will use less often as in you will level up slower as you major while every thing you do most often as major, so you can get the most out of your level ups
lonetrav 21 feb, 2023 @ 3:49 
Reading all the posts about Oblivion leveling, my personal experiences and opinion seem to be very different from those of most posters. Or I'm more "adaptive" to this particular system :-)?

I played Oblivion several times with different characters, standard and self-made ones (fighters, mages, and fighter-mage mixes, as far as leveling plays a role). I chose the attributes and skills for the ones I created myself according to their class (weapon-, armour-related for fighters, spell-casting related for mages), and followed the same principle when the characters leveled up by choosing the attributes which I thought needed improving the most (no level 1 till the end, no rarely used skills as major skills or similar strategies). I played the base game without mods, and also with mods like Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul and Martigan's Monster Mod (which tend to make the game more difficult). And I never touched the difficulty slider. When I completed the main quest my character was always at level 30-35, and I didn't find playing overly difficult. Challenging, yes, I couldn't do everything when I wanted to do it, and less so in the way I wanted to do it, but I never met unsurmountable obstacles. If one approach didn't work, another did.

Is it possible that some (or many) players simply have a clear perception how the game should work, and this game doesn't meet their expectations? Or have found a strategy to be successful and think it's the only one that works? I found that playing Oblivion is manageable, if you adjust to the game rather than expecting the game should adjust to you (and complain when you notice it doesn't). No offense intended.

With that said, I don't find the leveling system of Oblivion optimal (and I do prefer Morrowind's), mainly because it's sometimes immersion-breaking (after leveling up, the monster world around you may change dramatically - a bit simplifying: minotaurs instead of rats, or undead instead of bandits when you level up from level 5 to level 6, for example, just while you rest for an hour).
WingedKagouti 21 feb, 2023 @ 4:24 
Ursprungligen skrivet av lonetrav:
Reading all the posts about Oblivion leveling, my personal experiences and opinion seem to be very different from those of most posters. Or I'm more "adaptive" to this particular system :-)?
The primary complaints about Oblivion level scaling focus on when you get several levels due to non-combat skills like Acrobatics, Mercantile, Security and Speechcraft. At that point you risk running into enemies which far outstrip your own combat abilities.
psychotron666 21 feb, 2023 @ 6:11 
Ursprungligen skrivet av WingedKagouti:
Ursprungligen skrivet av lonetrav:
Reading all the posts about Oblivion leveling, my personal experiences and opinion seem to be very different from those of most posters. Or I'm more "adaptive" to this particular system :-)?
The primary complaints about Oblivion level scaling focus on when you get several levels due to non-combat skills like Acrobatics, Mercantile, Security and Speechcraft. At that point you risk running into enemies which far outstrip your own combat abilities.

That plus the handful of creatures which level up with you like ogres and xivilai. By level 40-50 they are damage sponges that fake forever to kill and your combat skills capped out like 10 levels ago and your gear isn't getting any better.

But yeah my biggest gripe with oblivion level scaling isn't difficulty, it's that it's dumb. You walk up to an ayleid ruin at level 2 and it's imps outside, there's no point in even going in, it will be 100% imps and the loot will be iron and leather.
th 21 feb, 2023 @ 8:08 
Ursprungligen skrivet av Googley Eye'd Bastard:
I remember playing morrowind way back on the xbox original and having a blast but I honestly don't remember too much about how the game worked besides the combat being hit chance with skill level and a few other things but I honestly can't remember much about the leveling system.

A bit ago I went back to try out oblivion and I was very disappointed, other then a few simple graphical mods and fix's the game was super unstable, but the real killer was the leveling system and enemies just becoming big fat sword sponges. I know morrowind doesn't have as extensive of a level scaling issue as oblivion being rather that some dungeons and areas were just do dangerous for you to go to for a while (which i think is much cooler then just scaling everything) but I remember at a certain point someone just told me in oblivion to not even put my actual skills as my class skills so I never level up.

So what are the quirks of the leveling system in morrowind? Is it much better then oblivion or are there things I should know before going into it?
Briefly speaking:
1) Morrowind - almost no scaling at all.
2) Oblivion - almost everything is scaled.
3) Skyrim - 50/50 of scaled/not scaled things. Kind of hibryd of 1 and 2.

Explanation is pretty simple too:
1) With Morrowind devs just were too unskilled as game designers. It was an ancient era of the game design. Modern approaches were not yet discovered and polished. So they just used no scaling coz it was the simplest and the most obvious way.
2) With Oblivion they got the idea, a very good idea obviously, to scale things. But they still were unexperienced so they overdid it.
3) And at last with Skyrim they had learned their lessons and made a hybrid system. It was kind of a middle ground. You could say it was like golden standard of some kind.
Senast ändrad av th; 21 feb, 2023 @ 8:09
th 21 feb, 2023 @ 8:14 
Ursprungligen skrivet av lonetrav:
Reading all the posts about Oblivion leveling, my personal experiences and opinion seem to be very different from those of most posters. Or I'm more "adaptive" to this particular system :-)?

I played Oblivion several times with different characters, standard and self-made ones (fighters, mages, and fighter-mage mixes, as far as leveling plays a role). I chose the attributes and skills for the ones I created myself according to their class (weapon-, armour-related for fighters, spell-casting related for mages), and followed the same principle when the characters leveled up by choosing the attributes which I thought needed improving the most (no level 1 till the end, no rarely used skills as major skills or similar strategies). I played the base game without mods, and also with mods like Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul and Martigan's Monster Mod (which tend to make the game more difficult). And I never touched the difficulty slider. When I completed the main quest my character was always at level 30-35, and I didn't find playing overly difficult. Challenging, yes, I couldn't do everything when I wanted to do it, and less so in the way I wanted to do it, but I never met unsurmountable obstacles. If one approach didn't work, another did.

Is it possible that some (or many) players simply have a clear perception how the game should work, and this game doesn't meet their expectations? Or have found a strategy to be successful and think it's the only one that works? I found that playing Oblivion is manageable, if you adjust to the game rather than expecting the game should adjust to you (and complain when you notice it doesn't). No offense intended.

With that said, I don't find the leveling system of Oblivion optimal (and I do prefer Morrowind's), mainly because it's sometimes immersion-breaking (after leveling up, the monster world around you may change dramatically - a bit simplifying: minotaurs instead of rats, or undead instead of bandits when you level up from level 5 to level 6, for example, just while you rest for an hour).
I agree with this completely.

Expectations often destroy fun. So good player should always adapt to the game. There are not so much games ever created which are capable to adapt to any player. Such games would be like Mona Lisa among games.
SCARaw 21 feb, 2023 @ 8:41 
i wish i could answer quickly

so i will try:
Similar systems
Morrowind put you with Stronger Stats for the start
Morrowind allow infinite training with trainers making easy to score +5
Morrowind have higher max level making it easier to get ALL 100 stats
lonetrav 21 feb, 2023 @ 9:27 
Ursprungligen skrivet av th:
... With Morrowind devs just were too unskilled as game designers. It was an ancient era of the game design. Modern approaches were not yet discovered and polished. So they just used no scaling coz it was the simplest and the most obvious way. ...
Discussions about monster levels are probably as old as RPGs, just like the discussion about level scaling vs. non-level-scaling. The developers of Morrowind were anything but unskilled. It would be interesting to discuss the development of the leveling systems of the TES games, from Arena to Skyrim - you can see how they learnt and tried to improve their approaches (the same goes, for example, for dungeon designs).

I don't understand what "modern" means in this context. Just from reading posts on TES forums I get the impression that today's players expect games to hold their hand, to tell them what to do (quest markers, for example) and that all fights can be won (sometimes even in the way players want to fight). I know I'm exaggerating, but if this is "modern", then I prefer the old-fashioned approach with its uncertainties, challenges, but also excitement and suspense.

Monster leveling ideally means that your enemies get stronger with your character, equally, a little more or a little less. Difficult to balance, and often meaning that fights are always more or less the same - new weapons, new spells, etc, but equally difficult. The non-leveling approach for monsters, often used in older games (have you ever played, say, Daggerfall? not totally unleveled, but you can find way-too-difficult monsters in the dungeons from the beginning), exposes you to enemies of an often unpredictable power, sometimes region-dependant (thus keeping players away from regions they are not supposed to visit yet).
Both approaches are not ideal, and, like you say, mixes are probably not a bad idea (with that said, I still prefer Morrowind and Oblivion over Skyrim).

I wouldn't call any of these methods better or worse than another per se, and that one of them may be the preferred or most successful one today tells more about the players than about the method.
At least for me, the monster-leveling approach chosen for a game rarely decides whether or not I like the game. We're back to adaptation: It's a feature of the game world, and I, the player, have to adapt to it (or stop playing this game). "Love it or leave it", as the saying goes :-).
Senast ändrad av lonetrav; 21 feb, 2023 @ 9:30
psychotron666 21 feb, 2023 @ 9:46 
Denna kommentar väntar på en analys av vår automatiska innehållskontroll. Den döljs temporärt tills vi kan verifiera att den inte har något skadligt innehåll (t.ex. länkar till webbsidor som försöker stjäla information).
th 21 feb, 2023 @ 9:52 
Denna kommentar väntar på en analys av vår automatiska innehållskontroll. Den döljs temporärt tills vi kan verifiera att den inte har något skadligt innehåll (t.ex. länkar till webbsidor som försöker stjäla information).
Senast ändrad av th; 21 feb, 2023 @ 9:52
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Datum skrivet: 19 feb, 2023 @ 15:27
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