Just kinda hit me out of nowhere twenty years later that

[Ash Wednesday Valentine]

the ending of ALMSIVI is [the words].

[Ghost]

Originalmente postado por Thomas Riker:

Originalmente postado por Ace-Of-Blades:

ENDING?
WORDS?
ALMSIVI?!

Reckon you just started, eh?

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_36_Lessons_of_Vivec

[Ash Wednesday Valentine]

Been thinking about that picture of FOUL MURDER and it's a masterpiece of perversion.

We've got this quasi biblical setting and his wife's posture is like she's dutifully washing his feet. That is NOT what she's doing.

His typically receptive partner is spearing him in the back.

And while he is the "face" of all these people, the man who most needs him to be one has RIPPED IT OFF.

Hell of thing. Gotta build a whole church to cover up ♥♥♥♥ that gross.

[Ghost]

Of all of them, would not have expected Sotha to be the one face-ripping. Vivec is nuts and Almalexia is obsessive, but why rip it off in the first place, and what is he going to do with it?

Also, easily missed, but Sotha is literally forcing Dagoth underground. How's that for metaphorical?

[Castyles]

Well, Sotha Sil is not only a magician but a scientist who built his own mechanical kingdom: the future.

Dagoth Ur represents the past with the way he behaves and thinks. 'Nuff said.

Nerevar was popular and well-liked, while Sotha Sil was not unliked per se but mysterious and unknown to pretty much everyone. He needs face in order to rule.

But the popular theory says the Tribunal did that to Nerevar on purpose in order to make amends (remember they were all-knowing. They just KNEW about everything but Vivec was the only one to dwelve WAY TOO DEEP into it).

So without feet, Nerevar would be reborn everywhere, without a face he'd be able to reappear as any race and he was impaled through both sides of his body to come back as every gender known.

[Ash Wednesday Valentine]

Really, really smart insights!

To get way shallower, from what we know of Sotha Sil, he never gets to live much of a life. That, to me, is reason enough to want to rip the face off the strapping, handsome guy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ half his friend group.

[Limdood]

what if sermon 29's message is referring to Dagoth Ur though?

I always found Vivec's recounting of the events significantly more plausible than the Dissident priests....my only issue with Vivec's story is that reading through the accounts he gives you, during the 6th/7th trials stage....they never DO address just how Nerevar died. At all. Like, one minute he's fighting Dagoth Ur, then Dagoth Ur gets away...cut time to then the tribunal is becoming gods and Azura turns the elves into Dunmer and warns that Nerevar's reincarnation will make them pay.

I certainly don't put it past Vivec to lie. Heck, he's been doing it forever. His explanation of how things went down just makes more sense...in the account that people tend to take as true: Nerevar at Red Mountain, which contains the tribunal murdering Nerevar, it also says the dwarves "turned to dust" which all the other sources say they just vanished (despite the piles of ash in the Mournhold Dwemer ruin, which don't exist in any other ruin, even the sections still untouched by post-Dwemer races)

[Ghost]

Possible, but paired with the rest of it suggests it would be Vivec, especially considering its a hidden text in his own holy book. He wouldn't need to be circumspect about dunking on "the devil" Dagoth Ur.

General consensus is that the battle and Nerevar's death was a dragon break. Officially though, Bethesda didn't actually decide on an answer as for how Nerevar actually died, so it's left up to interpretation/headcanon.

Presumably the dust left over in Bamz-Amschend is due to the ruin being perfectly preserved where the other ruins might have been open to air or whatever, or it could just be a coincidence and they were incinerated by the Daedra or their own machine.
It's also assumed that the spectres died before whatever caused the disappearance.

In saying that though, the game isn't consistent with itself and many of the writers left before Tribunal.

[Limdood]

yeah, i'm not saying it COULDN'T be betrayal by the tribunal, just that it always felt weird that the general consensus was that "of COURSE the tribunal betrayed and killed Nerevar!" and then citing the in-game books and "codes" and stuff.

Even the code is "he did X, He did Y, etc....and then "Vivec wrote this".....then why refer to himself as "He" and not "I"?

again, just to re-iterate, I'm not trying to argue CONCLUSIVE evidence one way or another. I love the whole "lets put in a bunch of ambiguous accounts of a past event that shaped history, and leave it to the player to decide the truth"....so often, games attempt to do something like that, but then chicken out and stick in "but if you look hard enough, we confirm that the answer was REALLY X all along" And I love that Morrowind DOESN'T (by design or accident)

[theo]

I didn't think Vivec left the hidden message, not intentionally at least. Either it was someone else entirely, or it was something about his dualistic/transcendent/retroactively changed/♥♥♥♥♥♥ up personality.

[psychotron666]

Vivec straight up tells you that vehk and vivec are two different entities. In the trial of vivec he admits the mortal vehk killed nerevar but the god vivec did not and that they are two separate entities except for one moment when the dragon breaks (time breaks into non linear).

[Ash Wednesday Valentine]

Originalmente postado por Limdood:

It could have been Oswald, it could have been the mafia, it could have been the Russians, it could have been the CIA or Cubans retaliating for being hung out to dry at the Bay of Pigs, or, hear me out here: maybe JFK wasn't shot at all!

[Ghost]

Originalmente postado por psychotron666:

Vivec straight up tells you that vehk and vivec are two different entities. In the trial of vivec he admits the mortal vehk killed nerevar but the god vivec did not and that they are two separate entities except for one moment when the dragon breaks (time breaks into non linear).

Yes, it wasn't the Tribunal that killed Nerevar, it was Vehk, Ayem and Seht.
Bit of a philosophical can of worms.

[Ash Wednesday Valentine]

I Know What You Did Last Dragon Break

[Limdood]

Always fun to have your argument completely misrepresented. Really makes people eager to contribute to discussions and the community...