The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

Jostabeere Apr 18, 2018 @ 12:40pm
Decent attributes without minmaxing level-ups?
So I am playing Morrowind again. I remember getting pretty strong years ago, but now I stumbled upon guides on efficient levelling and whatnot.
Things like "level up a single skill 10 times to get a 5x bonus on that attribute every level for efficiency" and whatnot.
And I am curious: Is it possible to do that from level 1 on without getting frustrated and loading a lot?
Like if I go for a weapon skill and want to get a 5x stength, I have to push that weapon skill 10 times without any other level-ups like armor, lockpicking, athletics and so on.

And the second question is: if I do not min-max and get 10 skill levels in one single skill per level, can I still reach maximum attributes that I'm interested in?
Like with a warrior who still has stuff like Mercantile, Restoration or Sneak for Pickpocketing, can I still reach maximum Strength, Speed, Endurance and so on? I'm not speaking about 100 in every attribute, but you know, the important ones.
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Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
gghadur77 Apr 18, 2018 @ 10:35pm 
I minmaxed from level 1 and did not get frustrated. You have to be smart about what you pick as major and minor skills. Contrary to what seems reasonable, do NOT put any skill you use regularly as a major or minor skill. This means don't ever pick Acrobatics or Athletics, by the way.

Pick skills that you do not have to use and that will not accidentally level up. When you're ready to level up, go use those skills a bit. At the start this will be time consuming, but after a couple of levels skill training will become affordable. At this point you basically can just be buying your level-ups rather than using the skills to earn them.

Definitely put at least one offensive combat skill as a major skill to help you at the start. Just don't put the one you actually plan on using the most.

The max level you can get to without using 'game-y' methods like damaging your skills and then retraining them is...78-ish? This means that if you only get x1 in each attribute you can get a total of 78 points in three attributes, which is definitely enough to get those three to max out. However, in practice:
1. You will likely get +2 in the attributes you care about on at least some level-ups, and
2. You will almost definitely stop playing as your character well before you get to level 78.

I think in practice you won't be able to get three attributes to 100 if you don't specifically try to. If you picked a Nord and made strength and endurance your main attributes you'd need ~40ish in each of those. Being generous that would take you until level 20 to get, assuming you got +2 in those attributes every single time you leveled up. My impression is that level 20 is the point when you're supposed to have beaten the game and moved on to the expansions.

Also be aware that if you're a warrior you should care about agility since it influences chance to hit your foe and chance to dodge them.

The last thing you should be aware of is that if you don't minmax your endurance your character will ALWAYS be weaker than they would be if you had, even if you eventually get 100 endurance. This is because your HP gain on level up is based on what your endurance is at the time you level up. It isn't readjusted if you later get higher endurance.
Jostabeere Apr 19, 2018 @ 4:37pm 
So what you want to say is I should take things I never actually get accidentally levelled-up as majors and minors and all stuff I actively get as miscellaneous?

Like if I want a heavy armor, long blade Strength/Endurance/Agility character I should get like Armourer, Medium Armor, Spear, Sneak and Light armor as my majors but using heavy armor and long blade and buying levels for Majors?
gghadur77 Apr 19, 2018 @ 5:20pm 
Yes, basically.

Be warned that you will not be able to make effective use of long blades at the start with long blade as a miscellaneous skill, because you will have a skill level of 5 in it. This equates to a 5% chance to hit on enemies with the same evasion-related stats as you, so you'll miss more than 90% of the time with long blades.

To avoid this problem you have two choices:
1. Use a different skill to fight at the start, and buy skill training in long blade when you have the money and until you get it to a useable level. Around skill level 30 should give you a decent hit rate.
2. Set long blade as a major skill. If you only have one skill you use regularly as a major skill it isn't too difficult to avoid levelling up when you don't want to.

If you go with option 1 my personal recommendation is to use Destruction. You have a 100% chance to hit as long as you are able to successfully cast the spell, and the game is explicit about what your chance to cast a spell is.

If you're particularly attached to a certain style of fighting you might prefer option 2, because it'll take a couple of levels before you have the money to buy lots of skill training in the skills you intend to use long-term.

Buying skill levels from trainers takes almost all the hassle out of minmaxing. You don't have to keep track of how many skill levels you've gained anymore once you have the money to buy skill training and not worry about your wallet. Every time you level up just go buy 10 skill levels each in two of the attributes you want to raise, and use a major or minor skill associated with the third attribute you want to raise to get the 10 skill levels for your next level up.

For example, with the sample build you mentioned:
1. Level Up
2. Before you do anything else, buy 10 skill levels in spear so you know you'll get +5 endurance on your next level up
3. Before you do anything else, buy 10 skill levels in sneak so you know you'll get +5 agility on your next level up
4. Play normally using Long Blade (if you set it alone of your desired skills as a major one) to gain 10 skill levels, giving you +5 strength and making you level up.

I want to reiterate that you will not have enough money to do this at the start of the game so you'll have to level up your skills the hard way. How soon you have enough money to do this depends on how lucky you get in finding valuable items.
Last edited by gghadur77; Apr 19, 2018 @ 5:21pm
Jostabeere Apr 20, 2018 @ 6:24am 
Well, I added you to ask some other questions regarding this whole mechanic.

But I'll ask here aswell.
Isn't it better to level up after I got only 1 major/minor to 10 instead of 3 different to 10?

Assuming I have 3 majors for 40 Strength, 40 Endurance and 40 Agility on 50 before doing so. If I bring the majors on 60 before levelling up and level up, I can bring the attributes to 45. And if I keep doing this, I'll havy my hypothetical attributes at 65 when the 3 majors reach 100 after 5 levels.
In total I would get 90 points for attributes. 15 (3 x 5 pro level up) x 5 (levels)

But if I have 3 attributes on 40 (same as example 1) and 3 majors on 50, but I level up a strength skill 10 times, I get strength on 45 and endurance/agility on 41. Next level I do it with endurance. get 46 endurance, 46 strngth, 42 agility. And so on. And when the 3 major skills all reach 100, I'll have 15 more points for attirbutes. Or is my math completely wrong?
And here I would get 7 (1 x 5 + 1 +1 pro level) x 15 (levels). In total 105 points for attributes. More than the number if I would got for 30 major level ups per level.
Last edited by Jostabeere; Apr 20, 2018 @ 7:37am
The Flying Rodent Apr 20, 2018 @ 5:53pm 
Hi there! Yes there are quite a few guides around now explaining how to ‘efficiently level’ characters in Morrowind. You have a lot of room to work with in Morrowind in terms of levels however, so things aren’t too difficult if you keep some things in mind.

Originally posted by Jostabeere:
Is it possible to [efficiently level] from level 1 on without getting frustrated and loading a lot?

Yes, if you:
a. Pick your major and Minor skills accordingly and
b. If you find a way to make money early to buy Training.

As already alluded to, it’s a good idea to pick Majors and Minors that you can ‘control’ the levelling for, and to not have many skills from the same governing Attribute as Majors or Minors (for e.g I WOULD NOT pick Long Blade, Axe, Blunt Weapon, Armourer and Acrobatics as ALL Majors/Minors, as these are all governed by Strength).

Generally you’ll want at least 1 combat and 1 Armour skill to use early (and probably not more than 1 of each) , and then a mix-match of whatever else you like. It is advised to not have Acrobatics or Athletics as Majors or Minors, as they ‘automatically level ‘ through the course of running around competing the game, and so are harder to control .

I personally make the case for picking Athletics as a Major on ANY character however. Running fast is generally a good thing, especially if you’re new to the game and might need to high tail out of a dangerous situation. Yes, this skill will level generally outside of the players complete control, but it is still possible to get x5 on Speed every level if you keep an eye on what skills are being levelled. Because ...

If I go for a weapon skill and want to get a 5x stength, I have to push that weapon skill 10 times without any other level-ups like armor, lockpicking, athletics and so on.

... You have the option to purchase training for multiple skills of the SAME governing attribute, and so level Attribute points without effecting your level ups.

Say you wanted to level 5x Strength. Your primary Major weapon skill is Long Blade (Strength based), but you only managed to level this skill 7 times before you hit a level up (you got 3 other Major/Minor level ups, in other words). However, Axe, Armourer, Acrobatics and Blunt Weapon are also all Strength based, and happen to be Miscellaneous. Levelling/training any 3 of these four Misc. skills will be enough to get a x5 Strength increase in level up, and also won’t ‘level up’ your character any further!

The same can be done if you’ve taken Athletics as a Major. Simply purchase enough training in any Miscellaneous Speed-based skills (Hand to Hand, Short Blade, Unarmored) to get 10 Speed-based skill level ups, and thus x5 on level up.

If I do not min-max and get 10 skill levels in one single skill per level, can I still reach maximum attributes that I'm interested in?

Yes. Easily. Which means that min-maxing is not as important as it might appear.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races

Regardless of race or sex, your character will start with a minimum of 310 Attribute points, out of a possible 800 (8 Attributes , 100 max). So 490 points are required to level everything to 100.

At minimum, characters start with 5 skills at 30, and 5 skills at 15. (5x70) + (5x85) = 775 possible skill level ups Maximum. The highest possible ‘max level’ then (i.e when all Majors and Minors are 100) is 78.

All characters also start with a +45 bonus to skills across a range. If one decided to pick a class with all their skills within one of the specialties (e.g One with 9 Combat Skills), that’s a +90 bonus to Skills Maximum. The lowest possible ‘max level’ then is 69.

So 490 skill level ups, spread across 68-77 level ups, or about 7 Attribute points per level are required to max every Attribute to 100.

Considering that 3x2’s are 6 Attribute points on a level (which only requires 3 well placed skill level ups technically), and the fact that you have unlimited Training options at your disposal, you have plenty of time to ‘min-max’ your Attributes. You can potentially level into the 30’s without worrying about Attributes whatsoever, and still have enough time to max everything except for Luck.

So TL;DR: Don’t be so fussed about min-maxing at the start, it won’t stuff anything up long term. :)

Isn't it better to level up after I got only 1 major/minor to 10 instead of 3 different to 10?

From an Attribute standpoint, it makes no difference. If anything, this is a better way to do it, especially from a Training standpoint, as it works out cheaper to train multiple low level skills than to highly training 1 skill.

Assuming I have 3 majors for 40 Strength, 40 Endurance and 40 Agility on 50 before doing so. If I bring the majors on 60 before levelling up and level up, I can bring the attributes to 45. And if I keep doing this, I'll havy my hypothetical attributes at 65 when the 3 majors reach 100 after 5 levels.
In total I would get 90 points for attributes. 15 (3 x 5 pro level up) x 5 (levels)

You can get a max of 15 Attribute points per level up. So a max of 15 at level 2, 30 at level 3, 75 at level 6, 150 at level 11, etc.

If you started Strength, Endurance and Agility all at 40, and found a way to x5 level them all right from the start , you should be able to get them all to 100 by (5x14) = Level 15.

This is assuming that you will be able to afford training for just about every level though , which is possible, but only if you find some very expensive items and decent merchants (which is not likely in the first few playthroughs, unless you actively look around for spoilers on the net, which I advise against doing ).

IMO, you’d be better off trying to focus 1 skill at a time at x5, and then get x2 in two other skills. A x2 requires only 1 skill level up, whereas x5 requires 10. If you were to ‘cycle’ this between Strength, Endurance and Agility , you’d then have 45/42/42 at 2, 47/47/44 at 3, 49/49/49 at 4, etc.



Finally, something that hasn’t been mentioned yet: Luck. Luck does not have any governing Attributes, and starts at 40. Meaning that 60 level ups at x1 each are required to max Luck to 100.

This isn’t absolutely necessary, as Luck does not have much of an influence overall on specific skills (usually a 1% boost per 10 points of Luck, as opposed to a 1% boost per 1 or 0.5 point of an associated skill ). That said, if you want to max Luck , I would advise starting to take points early in order to have enough levels to max it to 100.


If you require any game-specific knowledge , the UESP wiki (linked above to races) is a great place to go. Just be wary when navigating to quest/location/NPC pages, as they can be dark and full of spoilers.

Best of luck!
Last edited by The Flying Rodent; Apr 20, 2018 @ 6:27pm
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Date Posted: Apr 18, 2018 @ 12:40pm
Posts: 6