Why is everyone such a jerk?

[The Lemon]

"Jerk" being the nice word for it. Everyone I meet is horribly racist and rude to my character, going to Vivec being the worst of it. I understand that they may be xenophobic for lore reasons, but if I even come CLOSE to anyone they'll berate me about how I'm wasting their time. It's horribly annoying. It's especially fun when you're trying to find a shop or something and you have to spam jump over someone because the hallways are small, only for them to get mad that their time is short. If your time is so short, why are you just standing around and blocking my way?

I'm wondering if this is affected by mechanics. I'm a Nord, so that may be part of it, but I also haven't completed any main quests, so maybe I need to earn some respect in order to be treated like a human being. Which I feel is a little bit silly, some of these should really be saved for when you have negative reputation rather than when you're just a newcomer.

I'm new to the game (18 years late to the party) so I'm wondering what the original reason was for making everyone such a jerk. I'm not too knowledgeable on the lore aspects, but I feel from a gameplay standpoint it's a little bit strange to have them berate you when you get close to them, right? What are your opinions on this?

[Adversary]

Dunmer get +5 disposition with other Dunmer. Certain groups dislike other groups, like how the Thieves Guild and the Fighters Guild hate each other, or how House Telvanni hates the Mages Guild, or how the Ordinators of House Indoril pretty much hate everyone except the Tribunal Temple.

If you're truly having trouble getting others to like you, pick the Lady Sign and invest some drakes in Speechcraft, Illusion, Alchemy and Telvanni Bug Musk - these all have avenues to making you more likeable. Naturally, Imperials tend to have higher Personality as well, but Morrowind has disparity between races and sexes, so it wouldn't hurt to metagame a bit by reading UESP. Certain races dislike other races as well, because of lore reasons. Nords are especially disliked by elves, especially Dunmer.

Also, value of equipment doesn't have much impact on how others perceive you. That line is just a bit of flavor text, though I could be wrong in that regard. However, having your weapon drawn or a spell readied, as well as being diseased or in a state of undress will make disposition with almost everyone worse - with the odd exception of Crassius Curio of House Hlaalu, I vaguely remember a quest where you have to undress for him. I might be remembering wrong.

Finally, your reputation that you gain by completing certain quests will also have an impact on how others perceive you. Most reputation gains will be provided through either the main quest or through faction quests - although the Fighters Guild to my knowledge is the least helpful in this regard. Again, might be remembering wrong though. As I said, when in doubt UESP is your friend.

Now, outside of that I thought I should also mention that typically in most media, be it Western or Eastern, elves have a tendency to be portrayed as haughty, arrogant, aloof, and narcissistic. Not all elves, mind you, but it's common enough to be a trope. Dunmer tend to be isolationist as well. They're not necessarily racist or xenophobic. It's just that they'd rather be left alone - with the exception of House Hlaalu, who is the most gregarious due to their tendency to want something from you, usually drakes. They're willing to be more tolerant and accepting of those who have earned their trust - similar to dwarves in a sense, which makes sense because Dunmer were to my knoweldge allied with the Dwemer until they CHIM'd themselves out of existence.

>Stubborn
>Obstinate
>Overtly traditional
>Obsessed with ancestor worship
>Slow to trust others but steadfast and loyal to those whom they do trust
>Liquor enthusiasts

Sounds a lot like dwarves, but these are Dunmer we're talking about. Plus if you want real racism, play Oblivion. They really let loose with some of the taunting there.

[Moon Mind]

My understanding is that if you stand close enough to any NPC in Morrowind for a short time - a second or two is long enough, so it often happens if you're just passing by them - they will react to you in a way that represents their opinion of you.

As MANY people have already pointed out, their opinions usually start out pretty low, but are influenced by your factions, your reputation if you have any, current bounty if you're considered a criminal, and by your race.

The biggest impact is a combination of your Personality attribute and possibly your Speechcraft skill. I am not sure whether Speechcraft influences first impressions, though, or just how well you can influence opinion by trying Persuasion on them.

I got to see the effects of this really clearly after I got in a fight with a cleric who pretty much beat me with an ugly stick - literally a staff which drains Personality on strike until I was left with I think 2 or 3 points. At that point, even people I'd previously won over treated me coldly and strangers regarded me with disgust... I had to use restore or fortify personality potions even to get people to even give me directions to a temple where I could donate to restore the rest.

The Lemon eredeti hozzászólása:

That, or I didn't radiate enough swagger ...

I think that's pretty much it. Personality represents your natural charisma, and if it's real low, what that may mean in game terms is that you're basically a stumbling, bumbling ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who doesn't know how to ask a question or look someone in the eyes without coming off as a creep that proud people don't want in their city or in their sight.

It would be kinda nice if their responses were more relevant to you or your situation, certainly. Say, if some of the racist dunmer called you names specific to being a Nord or something (I've read some of the in-game books which relate that the Nords of Skyrim were actively at war with the dunmer for hundreds of years, so it wouldn't be surprising if there was a special hostility there).

As it is, it's pretty much just "outlander" so that it can apply regardless of your background - even foreign-born dunmer. Incidentally, dunmer who really like you will comment that you are welcome, and that "this land suits you" - you're still the outlander, they're just over hating you for it.

A personal note: I've been playing as an Acrobat and investing significantly in Personality and Speechcraft, so by level 20 my own character has (I presume) developed an aura of grace and refinement which attracts respect and positive first impressions. Even characters he's only meeting for the first time usually respond to him very politely, though they still stand in doorways just as irritatingly. Even members of the hate group the Camonna Tong greet him respectfully at this point, although they still tell him to mind his own damn business if he asks awkward questions.

[greenraven22]

The Lemon eredeti hozzászólása:

"Jerk" being the nice word for it. Everyone I meet is horribly racist and rude to my character, going to Vivec being the worst of it. I understand that they may be xenophobic for lore reasons, but if I even come CLOSE to anyone they'll berate me about how I'm wasting their time. It's horribly annoying. It's especially fun when you're trying to find a shop or something and you have to spam jump over someone because the hallways are small, only for them to get mad that their time is short. If your time is so short, why are you just standing around and blocking my way?

I'm wondering if this is affected by mechanics. I'm a Nord, so that may be part of it, but I also haven't completed any main quests, so maybe I need to earn some respect in order to be treated like a human being. Which I feel is a little bit silly, some of these should really be saved for when you have negative reputation rather than when you're just a newcomer.

I'm new to the game (18 years late to the party) so I'm wondering what the original reason was for making everyone such a jerk. I'm not too knowledgeable on the lore aspects, but I feel from a gameplay standpoint it's a little bit strange to have them berate you when you get close to them, right? What are your opinions on this?

Because you got off a prison ship, smelling like urine, wearing filthy rags.

Once you're wearing a necklace made out of daedra teeth and drinking from the skull of the last Morag Tong that failed to assassinate you, you'll find people will think twice before opening their mouth the wrong way.

Lore-wise the Dunmer are a proud race, reputation is like a second form of currency in Morrowind

[Nero]

greenraven22 eredeti hozzászólása:

The Lemon eredeti hozzászólása:

"Jerk" being the nice word for it. Everyone I meet is horribly racist and rude to my character, going to Vivec being the worst of it. I understand that they may be xenophobic for lore reasons, but if I even come CLOSE to anyone they'll berate me about how I'm wasting their time. It's horribly annoying. It's especially fun when you're trying to find a shop or something and you have to spam jump over someone because the hallways are small, only for them to get mad that their time is short. If your time is so short, why are you just standing around and blocking my way?

I'm wondering if this is affected by mechanics. I'm a Nord, so that may be part of it, but I also haven't completed any main quests, so maybe I need to earn some respect in order to be treated like a human being. Which I feel is a little bit silly, some of these should really be saved for when you have negative reputation rather than when you're just a newcomer.

I'm new to the game (18 years late to the party) so I'm wondering what the original reason was for making everyone such a jerk. I'm not too knowledgeable on the lore aspects, but I feel from a gameplay standpoint it's a little bit strange to have them berate you when you get close to them, right? What are your opinions on this?

Because you got off a prison ship, smelling like urine, wearing filthy rags.

Once you're wearing a necklace made out of daedra teeth and drinking from the skull of the last Morag Tong that failed to assassinate you, you'll find people will think twice before opening their mouth the wrong way.

Lore-wise the Dunmer are a proud race, reputation is like a second form of currency in Morrowind

Every elve-like race seems to be sitting on a "high horse"

Woodelves,Highelves,Darkelves and Snowelves(If they would be still alive...well Falmers are snowelves but ...you know they usually arent in the mood for talking)
And even Orcs (Orsimer) are of elvish blood ...and they get snarky from time to time too.

[greenraven22]

🅺🆄🅼🅰 eredeti hozzászólása:

Every elve-like race seems to be sitting on a "high horse"

Woodelves,Highelves,Darkelves and Snowelves(If they would be still alive...well Falmers are snowelves but ...you know they usually arent in the mood for talking)
And even Orcs (Orsimer) are of elvish blood ...and they get snarky from time to time too.

I think out of all of those examples the Orcs are the only ones who can be forgiven because they were created by Malacanth who is well known for his anger issues so the Orcs are cursed with rage and bloodlust.

All the other Mer races are just plain ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Altimer moreso than the others what with the whole Dominion thing.

[rubyismycat]

Play as an orc vampire next time if anyone gives you Sass and they will eat their face off! lol

[King Robert Baratheon]

What race are you op? In Morrowind, even other Dunmer are given a rough time if they seem like an Outlander. This classic video is proof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUatlXfy6K0

[Heimdall313]

The Lemon eredeti hozzászólása:

maybe I need to earn some respect in order to be treated like a human being.

You are being treated as a human being. You're in the ancestral homeland of elves cursed by a Daedric lord who have 100+ reasons to hate humans, including but not limited to, having been occupied by them for centuries, have had laws and soldiers imposed upon them, Nords tried to conquer them prior to Tiber Septim (a Nord) and his legion forcing them to surrender, etc.
Dunmer are pretty polite tbh. They don't even spit on you, rob you, poison your food, swindle you, or even give bad directions. It's not their fault that you don't belong there lol

[=CrimsoN=]

Meh, it adds more weight to the fact that you're the Nerevarine and an outsider at that.

It would be like if Jesus was resurrected as a super Asian looking dude or if Muhammad appears as a super white guy. Be a giant spit in the face to all their respective believers.

So let them be jerks to you and then bask in the glory when you're proven to be their religious figure. :D

[つづく]

Because, OP, that's how real life was.

[The Lemon]

Trrcn eredeti hozzászólása:

Because, OP, that's how real life was.

Man, real life sucks.

[Von Faustien]

Heimdall313 eredeti hozzászólása:

The Lemon eredeti hozzászólása:

maybe I need to earn some respect in order to be treated like a human being.

You are being treated as a human being. You're in the ancestral homeland of elves cursed by a Daedric lord who have 100+ reasons to hate humans, including but not limited to, having been occupied by them for centuries, have had laws and soldiers imposed upon them, Nords tried to conquer them prior to Tiber Septim (a Nord) and his legion forcing them to surrender, etc.
Dunmer are pretty polite tbh. They don't even spit on you, rob you, poison your food, swindle you, or even give bad directions. It's not their fault that you don't belong there lol

you seem to misunderstand how Tiber septim took morrowind. the empire never invaded they couldn't the tribunal would have crushed them not to mention numidum. The empire was invited and the tribunal handed morrowind to them in exchange for almost complete internal control this is why dispite being outlawed by imperial law the dunmer are still allowed slaves and why dispite a legion garision being stationed in the provience law is left to the great houses and the dunmer armies were allowed to remain under the control of the great houses. True the Tribunal was on the decline due to the loss of the heart and they made the offer because of it but they weren't invaded and in exchange for helping the empire by handing them the wepon needed to crush the dunmers traditional foe the altmer they got extra canon foder to stall the armies of dagoth ur and retained the control they had prior to joining the empire.

there are also conflicting reports on tiber septim its more likely he was a breton from high rock and not a nord from atmora.

[Heimdall313]

Von Faustien eredeti hozzászólása:

Heimdall313 eredeti hozzászólása:

You are being treated as a human being. You're in the ancestral homeland of elves cursed by a Daedric lord who have 100+ reasons to hate humans, including but not limited to, having been occupied by them for centuries, have had laws and soldiers imposed upon them, Nords tried to conquer them prior to Tiber Septim (a Nord) and his legion forcing them to surrender, etc.
Dunmer are pretty polite tbh. They don't even spit on you, rob you, poison your food, swindle you, or even give bad directions. It's not their fault that you don't belong there lol

you seem to misunderstand how Tiber septim took morrowind. the empire never invaded they couldn't the tribunal would have crushed them not to mention numidum. The empire was invited and the tribunal handed morrowind to them in exchange for almost complete internal control this is why dispite being outlawed by imperial law the dunmer are still allowed slaves and why dispite a legion garision being stationed in the provience law is left to the great houses and the dunmer armies were allowed to remain under the control of the great houses. True the Tribunal was on the decline due to the loss of the heart and they made the offer because of it but they weren't invaded and in exchange for helping the empire by handing them the wepon needed to crush the dunmers traditional foe the altmer they got extra canon foder to stall the armies of dagoth ur and retained the control they had prior to joining the empire.

there are also conflicting reports on tiber septim its more likely he was a breton from high rock and not a nord from atmora.

Conflicting reports don't mean much in game lore; nearly everything Mankar Cameron says in Gaiar Alata wrong, confused, or conflicting but it's still lore; ie "... the Coldharbour of Meridia, Peryite's Quagmire...". Coldharbour is Molag Bal, Quagmire is Vaermina.

And yes I know the Tribunal basically made a vassalization deal for effectively 90% autonomy after some initial combat (there are ingame books of Imperial troops crossing a lake by walking along the bottom with Waterbreathing spells via Battlemages to capture a fort from Vivec, its a skill book), but in terms of the Dunmer people being forced to accept Imperial garrisons, culture, and law that is something very humiliating to impose upon people, ie the Chinese Century of Humiliation. Also take into consideration than all Ebony ore belongs to the emperor; Ebony is culturally significant to the dunmer aside from just being strategically important and valuable.
For real, the Dunmer are too polite to me as a Nord ascending to effective deification in their homeland. Only reason the Nerevarine can be something other than a Dunmer is simply a gameplay thing; what would be the point of other playable races if the player could only ascend to apotheosis as a Dunmer lol.

Still, iirc, Vivec literally beat Mehrunes Dagon in combat and stopped a f***ing moon from crushing his city (was it Sheogorath who did that?) with his hand like a superman meme so you'd think a few Imperial legions would be a joke.

[greenraven22]

Heimdall313 eredeti hozzászólása:

Still, iirc, Vivec literally beat Mehrunes Dagon in combat and stopped a f***ing moon from crushing his city (was it Sheogorath who did that?) with his hand like a superman meme so you'd think a few Imperial legions would be a joke.

I'm a little rusty on the lore but didn't he do all that stuff while a full blooded Chimer? Wasn't the whole point of him locking himself up in a temple is so he can keep fighting the Dunmer transformation? So it seems like he's too busy with his own mental issues to worry about what's happening outside of the temple doors.

[Heimdall313]

greenraven22 eredeti hozzászólása:

Heimdall313 eredeti hozzászólása:

Still, iirc, Vivec literally beat Mehrunes Dagon in combat and stopped a f***ing moon from crushing his city (was it Sheogorath who did that?) with his hand like a superman meme so you'd think a few Imperial legions would be a joke.

I'm a little rusty on the lore but didn't he do all that stuff while a full blooded Chimer? Wasn't the whole point of him locking himself up in a temple is so he can keep fighting the Dunmer transformation? So it seems like he's too busy with his own mental issues to worry about what's happening outside of the temple doors.

Not sure, but I believe the damnation of the Chimer by Azura was a result of the Tribunal's Apotheosis, which occurred before the Imperial vassalization. No idea what he's doing in the actual Morrowind timeframe.
I have 12 hours into morrowind but was a massive book and lore hog in Oblivion / Skyrim which recycle a majority of the books.