This is actually the worst TES game...

[Road to A+]

For anyone wondering if you should buy this game or not because of the positive reviews, you can pass this one.

After playing through the whole anthology in order I came to the shocking conclusion that Morrowind was the worst TES game, even more so than Arena which is the most bare bone game of the lot.

Combat system is easily the worst of the series by a long shot, I dont think this even needs to be argued, every other TES game offered a more engaging experience.

Main quest is also the worst of the series, it is actually the only TES game where you are thrown into a world without any relevant directions or goals. You must find a certain guy but really dont have any motivation to do so aside from having nothing else to do.

The quest design is extremely dull and generic. Its on the same level as Arena and Daggerfall but its worse due to the fact that its supposedly hand crafted rather than randomly generated. Its a majority of boring fedex quests and errands. Even the NPCs call them errands. They send you to retrieve ancient artifacts across the street and tell you the exact location. The lack of quest marker does not add any value to the experience.

Dialogue is awful and dumbed down. When asking NPCs for a 'little secret', they respond by telling you that you are allowed to defend yourself in the case where you get attacked first....

Level design is poor overall. Dungeons are copy pasted and said to be hand crafted. Towns feel empty with static NPCs standing there day and night.

Overall this game felt like a massive dumbing down from Daggerfall and was seen as such even 15 years ago by the true cRPG fans.

All of you edgy fanboys can stop bashing Oblivion and Skyrim to praise Morronwind because that game is pure garbage. It truely is the game that marked the decline of the series.

edit: Daggerfall > Oblivion > >Skyrim > Arena > Morronwind

edit 2: Total comments progress 425/16000

edit 3: Meme contest is now open. I'll wire 20$ to the one who creates the best meme with top line: Ranks Morrowind the best TES game // Bottom line: Hasn't played Arena or Daggerfall. Contest up until July 1st 12:00:00 PST.

[Xerkie]

SON

SON, COME GET YOUR ALPHABETTI SPAGHETTI

[LurdFalcunPOONCH]

this thread is gonna start slowly dying after this comment

[Stonehaven]

simply put, people who are already familiar with the easy going games of today that don't require any though about a skills system just getting your next weapon, and instant location markers to the next quest; those people are going to have a hard time with morrowind usually because it requires a lot more thought and planning rather than following evident cue's - But then again that seems like a natural step for games because our real life is like that now days with smart phones that take or show us instantly where to go or where something is.

It doesn't make sense to bash this games graphics, all games reuse resources because it makes the game use less resources thus a more efficient game, we've gotten a lot better today at doing that while making it hard to tell. Back in the day these were probably close to the best out at that time.

The combat system is not bad, i cant even say its clunky, sure when you first start out you don't get many successful hits, i think the combat system is a roll based system based on the skill level you currently have in the weapon your using so it stands to reason that your not going to have many successful hits that much until you get better at using that weapon - this is the reason most new players think the combat system sucks.

if your changing weapons often in the beginnings of the game you are making this situation even worse on yourself because its taking you much much much longer to get better at a weapon skill. After you get to about 40 or so in a weapon skill you will feel a lot more fluid with that weapon and getting much much more successful hit on most all mobs - however you will notice your weapon becoming more fluid even well before this.

I don't understand how anyone can relate the missions to being too menial compared to today's quests in games, they give you exact location marker on your map so you just follow the marker get what you need and return - theres no thinking involved

in morrowind these 'menial' tasks help you level up, you fight things along the way to get your weapon skill up, you get Athletics exp from running mostly and Acrobatics exp from jumping so make sure you jump a lot while running places. both these together will help you run faster and jump higher to be more agile as fast as possible in the game.

I hope your not using console command cheats like giving yourself money and stuff - im my opinion if you start out doing that you are not getting the experience of the game, youl wind up taking the silt strider most of the time so you wont get exp for running and jumping and fighting which means you will be slower and less agile and have a lower weapon skill for longer into the game making the game feel slower and clunky. Before using console commands (except for 'resetactors') you should wait till you have played at least 70% of the game at least once so you can use the console more wisely based on how you want to play.

The skills system like most skills systems back then took some thought and planning - making your own custom class is far more a rewarding game experience but a first-timer should always pick a pre-made class first and play through the game, even then when you create your first custom class i can be sure you will set your skills up bad unless you've done a lot of research on how the skills system works, even then i would bet that you will likely put one or two skills in a bad spot. Its easy to make your game play experience suck when making a custom class if you don't understand the skills system well, but after you create and play a few custom classes it becomes apparent how it works and uesp.net inst bad for information.

I have written a few other short guides feel free to look them up as you will find other useful information (i am no expert at the game just one of my favorite old school games), my goal in writing these are to help make new players get the best experience as fast as possible into the game but it wont work until you try.

[////]

Road to A+ eredeti hozzászólása:

My argument on the dungeons was more about pointing out the fact that they are disappointing considering that they are supposedly handcrafted. It was also about pointing out how they arent a redeeming quality for this game.

''which is why I said it was important to level the right attributes and skills to offset and improve that''

I did just that, I picked speed as main stat and The Steed as a sign for +20 speed. Its like playing fruit ninja in slow motion stricly with mouseclicks. I am not saying the combat in the other games is 'good' but you have to accept that this one is technically the worst.

''Morrowind is a smaller map for sure, but when you first play it it barely seems like that. it feels huge because you're slow''

The map doesnt feel bigger, its the whole game that feels slower. Getting the puzzle box artifact was a 5 minutes walk and the place didnt feel secret at all. It was quite immersion breaking.

''That is just you and how you perceived it. In my view the main quest was very captivating, especially the first time I played it''

That is just how I percieved it after playing the rest of the series and many other RPGs to compare it to.

''Like I said once before, it's fine that you don't enjoy the game, then don't play it. But that you're trying to argue about it, when you played so little of it, that's stupid. You're talking out of your ♥♥♥ on most of these things''

Its fine if you just want to argue ''Well, I liked it'' but this sorta is a debate thread so maybe you should move on. As you can see I did provide more than just ''I hated this, I disliked that''.

good. now go back and read counter-arguments left for you by all these nice peoples. case closed. finito la comedia. sayonara, mr. popo.

[Road to A+]

Stonehaven eredeti hozzászólása:

The combat system is not bad, i cant even say its clunky,

You are disqualified from this debate.

[moelwyn]

Well Road to A+ you are entitled to your opinion. You are wrong of course but I will defend to the death your right to be so.

[Road to A+]

moelwyn eredeti hozzászólása:

Well Road to A+ you are entitled to your opinion. You are wrong of course but I will defend to the death your right to be so.

Prove that I am wrong.

[Pajeet $ Patel]

Alright I'll bite. I have played the whole anthology too, and this is certainly not the worst TES game. In fact I would argue that it is the best TES game because it is a "jack of all trades."

- The combat system may not be as good as Skyrim's but it is damn near close to it. The biggest issue people have with the combat is that you frequently "miss" when attacking someone. But that's just a gameplay over realism approach to the system. There's so much more to Morrowind's combat than any other TES game. It is more challenging and interesting because of how your skills and attributes directly affect your gameplay. You don't have the awful "meatbag" combat style that you see in the other TES games. Skyrim's combat is still better, but no other TES game comes close to Morrowind or Skyrim in terms of combat.

- The Main Quest is arguably one of the best in the TES games. I don't think it's as good as Oblivion's and maybe not as good as Daggerfall's, but it is still damn good. The game blurs the lines between good and evil, and by the end of it you question whether you did the right or wrong thing. You really do feel like a proper agent of the Blades, and it just seems so clear to me that the OP never completed it.

- The quest design system is more basic than the later TES games. Once more Oblivion wins this, but Morrowind is a close second. The questlines are huge, and although some quests feel like no more than menial tasks, this allows the developers to tell a more realistic story rather than a rushed Skyrim "deus ex machina" that ends with the player becoming Guild Master after four quests.

- The OP's point on dialogue is straight up stupid. Morrowind easily has the best dialogue in the TES series. It is rich with options simply because it has no voice acting. This allows for creative freedom for the writers and so that each and every character has a unique personality. Perhaps the only game that does this better is Daggerfall. The OP seems like an individual who would praise Fallout 4's dialogue, that's how cringe his point was.

- Morrowind does not have the best level design admittedly. I would still argue that it is better than the TES games before it though. They are very basic and I think its design was just a stepping stone for the developers. Skyrim has the best level design.

Overall Morrowind isn't the best in any of the areas. The reason Morrowind is arguably the best TES game is because it is a jack of all trades. Skyrim has fantastic combat and level design but terrible dialogue, and quests. Oblivion has fantastic quests, but is terrible in almost every other aspect. Daggerfall is only decent in most areas, and Arena is absolute trash (but hey at least its moderate success kickstarted the rest of the franchise.) Morrowind unlike the other games, does everything well just not perfect.

[Road to A+]

Combat system not as good as Skyrim but close to it???? Why compare it to Skyrim? Why even try to pretend that it is good? Anyway we should just stop arguing about the combat, it's been bad since Arena and still is.

You really didnt give any substantial argument to defend the MQ except 'I think its good'. You even lose credibilty by implying that Oblivion's MQ is good. Of course I didnt complete it, it was so awful and tedious. If anything it has a decent ending.

Again I disagree with realism in the quest design. The puzzle box quest is a proof that the quest design is unrealistic. It is also the main reason I quit after Caius told me to go grind some levels and come back. There is no way I am grinding with this poor quest design and gameplay mechanics.

Dialogue in Morrowind also includes the worst instances of fourth wall breaking stuff that doesnt belong in a RPG. NPCs basically reading you the rules of the game manual when you ask them for secrets. NPCs telling you to go practice you skills on roaming bandits like its the most mundane thing to do.... All this in a world plagued by a crappy prophecy story. Morrowind's writing is good for someone who doesnt read often.

The level design is inferior to the sequels and not good enough to be worthy of replacing the randomized ones.

Saying that Daggerfall is only decent in most areas is pretty ignorant and shows that you dont care much about older games or analysing what you play. That game has a reputation for being a mixed bag of good and bad. Things in DF are either great or awful, there is no decent stuff.

Saying that Morrowind is a jack of all trades is also wrong because that game ranges from awful to decent with some good parts. It really is nothing but a product of its time.

[Pajeet $ Patel]

- That's just silly. Arena's combat is trash. Morrowind's combat system takes some getting used to, and I'm guessing you just gave up on it like you did with the rest of the game.

- The story is good because it's morally complex and there's a lot of character development and world building. I don't understand why you dislike Oblivion's MQ, because I think it's easily the best. But this thread isn't about Oblivion so whatever.

- Also, how is a fetch quest unrealistic? It's apart of a slow build up of what's to come. I don't see why you would prefer a rushed ex machina, but you do you. Also if you feel that it's a grind but then praise Daggerfall or Arena's story then you're straight up bs-ing about having completed those games.

- Dialogue "reading you the rules." What? They used an immersive way of teaching the player how to play and that's somehow a bad thing? "Morrowind's writing is good for someone who doesn't read often." You say as you insult a game that has no voice acting and can only be played by reading.

- The level design still has more attention to detail than Morrowind's predeccessor. That's what makes it better. I would argue though that Oblivion is somewhat better and that Skyrim's level design is easily the best.

Daggerfall is great as a fantasy life simulator. It is only decent in most areas. It is perhaps the most realistic TES game of the franchise. However, it is grindy, and the only word to summarise that I can think of is "Decent." Once again, your thread isn't about Daggerfall so I won't go much more into this.

In my opinion, Morrowind is most definitely a jack of all trades. It overall does everything good just not great, but being "good" at everything is what makes it the best TES game. And to argue against your last point, I don't believe its a product of its time simply because of how its community is once more resurfacing. OpenMW, Skywind, Tamriel Rebuilt, Morrowind Rebirth, MWSE 2.0 are all alive because the community is still thriving, and I hope one day you can return to this game and see it as the magnificent work of art that it is.

[Road to A+]

Like I said the combat is every TES game is pretty bad. It isnt true to the RPG genre because it involves too much skill yet it has too much dice rolls to be a proper action game. It remains that combat in Arena and DF is more based on twitch reflexes so its less boring than Morrowind where you can fap with 1 hand and spam click with the other. I dont know why you say I gave up on the combat like there was something to earn or achieve by persevering. I believe that even with 100% accuracy the combat is still the worst.

Im sorry but I dont see any morality in being treated like a special snowflake from a prophecy sent to do errands for uninteresting reasons. There is also a crapton of not 'morally complex' content that taints the rest of the game. Morrowind still has the worst MQ introduction and post-introduction of the series.

''- Also, how is a fetch quest unrealistic?'' When some random dude gets sent on an errand to retrieve an super special and ancient artifact in a relatively close location (and given precise directives) that isnt well hidden by people much better trained/equipped to retrieve it. Might as well ask us to go find a cure for cancer. This takes away the credibility of the faction giving the quest, and thus the immersion and exploration value. Morrowind's flaws are like dominos. Arena and DF were grindy too but they had a good background MQ to motivate the grind.

Fourth wall breaking =/= immersive. Both cannot exist. That stuff doesnt belong in true RPGs. Its the only TES game that is plagued by this. Having NPCs spew out stuff like that kills the immersion and exploration value.

I wont argue further on the level design because its not an important factor in Morrowind's ranking. It still doesnt have a clear advantage over other titles.

Fantasy life simulator = role playing game. Again I will refute your statement that it is only decent as this game has a reputation of being a mixed bag of great and awful, there is no inbetween. Feel free to develop that if you think I misread, let me know which 'decent' aspects of DF were done better by other titles. This thread is about Morrowind vs the rest so comparing DF is as legit as comparing Skyrim or Oblivion.

Again you keep repeating how it is a jack of all trades and good in every aspect but fail to prove it, while I keep bringing arguments on why it is bad in pretty much every aspect. It is a joke of all trades.

[Pajeet $ Patel]

Okay so:

- " I believe that even with 100% accuracy the combat is still the worst." So you used a combat mod and found the combat lacking. So then that proves my point that you gave up on it. Accuracy mods should not be used because it makes skills, attributes, and spells redundant. Blame the mod or yourself for not giving the gameplay a fair go. Arena combat is meatbag.

- You're not treated like a special snowflake until you've finished the questline. Everyone doubts you right up until you defeat the final boss. This just further proves that you have no idea what you're talking about.

- The Dwemer Puzzle Box wasn't a super special ancient artifact. It was like retrieving a golden claw from a thief in a nordic barrow. Only it's a puzzle box from a bandit in a Dwemer ruin... The Dwemer Puzzle Box was a favor for a favor. The dude could have gotten it himself but figured you may as well do it for him if he's going to help you. It's no where near as special as you make it out to be.

- The dialogue doesn't break the fourth wall. You're basing this off a little secret that says that self-defence is perfectly legal. In no way is that fourth wall breaking. Besides NPCs don't "spew" this out, they have a tonne of dialogue based on rng, where you are, who you are talking to, how far you have progressed in a questline, how many times you have heard the same dialogue, etc. etc. You're not taking into account all the variables.

- The Level Design is still greater than that of Daggerfall/Arena's though. There is way more attention to detail. So you're wrong about it not having a clear advantage over other titles.

- True all fantasy life simulators are RPGs but not all RPGs have to be fantasy life simulators. A game can only have a few RPG aspects and still be called an RPG (Such as The Witcher 3.) And why should I let you know about the decent aspects of Daggerfall? This is about Morrowind not Daggerfall. If you want to discuss why Daggerfall is not decent then try idk... making a Daggerfall thread somewhere?

That's because the game is a jack of all trades. Also I'm not sure you understand how discussions work, when I make a point, then you refute it. When you make a point, then I refute it. I challenged your evidence just as you challenged mine. By your logic you have also failed to prove your point. Morrowind remains a jack of all trades.

[Stonehaven]

I think debating weather morrowind sucks or not with some people for 20 pages or more like it has been done countless times; starts to become a waste of time - if their not willing to take sjuggestions and go back and give it another try then there isnt any sense trying to debate with them - better time spent playing a game.

Good luck to you @Road to A+, you get an F- in The Elder Scrolls Series specifically Morrowind :P

[////]

Road to A+ eredeti hozzászólása:

moelwyn eredeti hozzászólása:

Well Road to A+ you are entitled to your opinion. You are wrong of course but I will defend to the death your right to be so.

Prove that I am wrong.

you are trying to compare banana with an apple here. that's why you are wrong. but it's okay to like what you like. even though, you only like trolling, it can be good sometimes... for example, bethesda trolled tes fans and it made them filthy rich.

[Road to A+]

I did not use an accuracy mod, I can still say that the combat would be also bad with 100% accuracy because it would play out the exact same way. It is not engaging, its clunky.

You are treated like a special snowflake when you start the game and get freed out of prison by the King himself. Also when you are sent to retrieve ancient artifacts by people much better suited than you for the task.

''The dialogue doesn't break the fourth wall. You're basing this off a little secret that says that self-defence is perfectly legal. In no way is that fourth wall breaking''

In every possible way this is fourth wall breaking. Right of self-defense is a law of nature, it is not a 'little secret'. Telling me to go practice my skills on bandits like they were objects is immersion breaking too.

''The Level Design is still greater than that of Daggerfall/Arena's though. There is way more attention to detail. So you're wrong about it not having a clear advantage over other titles''

Gonna have to back up that claim. Do you mean it has more objects laying around shelves and stuff? Dungeons in DF are actual dungeons and Morrowind's are like cellars. By level design I mean the complexity of the layout mostly.

''True all fantasy life simulators are RPGs but not all RPGs have to be fantasy life simulators''

Are you implying that DF has too many features that get lost on you? Even calling DF a fantasy life sim wouldnt be a bad thing...

''And why should I let you know about the decent aspects of Daggerfall?''

So I can discredit you when you reply with inaccurate claims.

You keep claiming jack of all trades but your arguments fail to support that claim. Morrowind is a contender for worst TES game for so many aspects, I dont see how its decent at anything.

@Stonehaven Are you implying that forcing myself to play more can only result in my liking it more? Because that game is impossible to dislike? That somehow I will have a revelation and see the light at the end of the tunnel that is Morrowind's undeniable greatness?