Why Do They Always Take Out Characters

[Netsa]

I know I should have checked that out before buying, but I'm mourning the loss of Blue Mary (KOF '03 is the only other KOF game I've played). Characters that were in previous games being taken out of sequels isn't exactly uncommon, though, given Smash Bros., Marvel vs Capcom, Soul Calibur, etc., etc.

I never understood why they did that, though. I'm sure there must be some good reason for it. Anyone know that can shed some light on this?

[Miggoh]

Because of making KOFXIII quality 2D sprites takes a LOT of money and time. That's why all the fighting games are moving from 2D to 3D.

The Skullgirls character Squigly for example cost about $150,000 to make.

$48,000: Staff Salaries – 8 people for 10 weeks
$30,000: Animation and Clean-up Contracting
$4,000: Voice recording
$2,000: Hit-box Contracting
$5,000: Audio Implementation Contracting
$20,000: QA Testing
$10,000: 1st Party Certification
$10,500: IndieGoGo and Payment Processing Fees
$20,500: Manufacturing and Shipping Physical Rewards

A character in pixel art would take a professional artist about two hours per frame (four frames per day), at a salary of $20-$30 per hour. So a character with 500 frames of animation could initially cost $20,000 – $30,000, but then the cost of fine-tuning and reworking the animations to balance gameplay can actually double the price by the end.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Miggoh | No meatbuns, No life:

Because of making KOFXIII quality 2D sprites takes a LOT of money and time. That's why all the fighting games are moving from 2D to 3D.

So the reason the KOF series tends to have a lot of characters left behind is because they don't or can't take the time to carry over less popular characters because it's more difficult or impossible to recycle 2D sprites than 3D? I guess I can understand that, but it is sad. 2D just looks so much better.

[Miggoh]

In a nutshell, yes. The 2D sprites were a lot more simple back in the day, but sprites like that would look pretty out-dated. KOFXIII is quality over quantity. Some characters are missing completely and some characters are arguably missing moves (Terry's power dunk etc). I also updated my first answer with some pricings

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Miggoh | No meatbuns, No life:

In a nutshell, yes. The 2D sprites were a lot more simple back in the day, but sprites like that would look pretty out-dated. KOFXIII is quality over quantity. Some characters are missing completely and some characters are arguably missing moves (Terry's power dunk etc). I also updated my first answer with some pricings

Yeah, I saw your edit to the first post. Thanks for the specifics. Some of those prices are really out-there. Just goes to show how complicated things can get over time.

Sticking with K' and Ralf, but still trying to decide on my third. Ralf's uber-punch is still one of my favorite skills in the game, happy that wasn't modified much.

[freefall]

Not only that, but SNKP completely went overboard, and animated the characters in 3D as reference for their 2D sprites. It's not only expensive, but time consuming. But the results show: XIII has the most fluid animation of any sprite-based game I've seen. This is kind of nitpicking, but I do wish with that level of design, they didn't have to flip over the sprites when you switched sides, and instead just animated the attacks from the other side. Wishful thinking, I know, but that's admittedly one of the pros of going 3D.

[Bugs Bussy]

Originally posted by Net56:

Originally posted by Miggoh | No meatbuns, No life:

Because of making KOFXIII quality 2D sprites takes a LOT of money and time. That's why all the fighting games are moving from 2D to 3D.

So the reason the KOF series tends to have a lot of characters left behind is because they don't or can't take the time to carry over less popular characters because it's more difficult or impossible to recycle 2D sprites than 3D? I guess I can understand that, but it is sad. 2D just looks so much better.

That and well because there's a story in most fighters, believe it or not. A lot of characters in KoF get killed off in the story or just aren't relevant to the most recent story arc. You usually seem them in the Ultimate Match games (98 and 2002 I believe) where everyone is brought back.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Lion-O Richie:

Originally posted by Net56:

So the reason the KOF series tends to have a lot of characters left behind is because they don't or can't take the time to carry over less popular characters because it's more difficult or impossible to recycle 2D sprites than 3D? I guess I can understand that, but it is sad. 2D just looks so much better.

That and well because there's a story in most fighters, believe it or not. A lot of characters in KoF get killed off in the story or just aren't relevant to the most recent story arc. You usually seem them in the Ultimate Match games (98 and 2002 I believe) where everyone is brought back.

Well, yeah, but I don't really accept that as a valid reason. KOF characters that previously "died" came back, and there are quite a lot of characters that don't really matter to the story at all. If they had the resources, time, and patience I think they would just do the "Ultimate Match" thing every game since fans would appreciate it more.

[Sharnt]

Mature isn't dead in the storyline? Vice too no? they even have "ghosts" palette colors.

And Geese was half ended if i'm not wrong but they couldn't include him in the game sadly.

[KhAS]

Kof '98 still feels like it's my favorite

[Bakamoichigei]

iirc Vice and Mature were killed, but they were brought back by the Orochi or something. So, you know... *waves plot-magic wand*

'97 is still my favorite, with '98 and '96 tied for second because '96 has some additional presentation polish that was lost in later iterations (Like spiffy stage intros and stuff) and had some interesting characters, like Mature and Vice. '96 also had Athena's cool Osaka overpass stage, with the crowd of high school kids watching... Which they've now brought back. (It's in XIII, dunno if it was in XII, too)

There's a real simple solution to the problem of missing characters... But not everyone has the GPA to make it into the Old School[media.giantpachinkomachineofdoom.com], if you know what I mean. ;)

Encore Presentation[media.giantpachinkomachineofdoom.com], because I'm a horrible braggart, and a right-bastard.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by GPMoDBakamoichigei:

iirc Vice and Mature were killed, but they were brought back by the Orochi or something. So, you know... *waves plot-magic wand*

'97 is still my favorite, with '98 and '96 tied for second because '96 has some additional presentation polish that was lost in later iterations (Like spiffy stage intros and stuff) and had some interesting characters, like Mature and Vice. '96 also had Athena's cool Osaka overpass stage, with the crowd of high school kids watching... Which they've now brought back. (It's in XIII, dunno if it was in XII though)

There's a real simple solution to the problem of missing characters... But not everyone has the GPA to make it into the Old School[media.giantpachinkomachineofdoom.com], if you know what I mean. ;)

Encore Presentation[media.giantpachinkomachineofdoom.com], because I'm a horrible braggart, and a right-bastard.

But setting up emulators can be a bit of a pain sometimes and-
Wait, were you talking about something else?

[Bakamoichigei]

Originally posted by Net56:

But setting up emulators can be a bit of a pain sometimes and-
Wait, were you talking about something else?

I'll give you a hint; it's red and white, weighs 300 pounds, and it ain't Santa Claus. ;3

[Netsa]

Originally posted by GPMoDBakamoichigei:

Originally posted by Net56:

But setting up emulators can be a bit of a pain sometimes and-
Wait, were you talking about something else?

I'll give you a hint; it's red and white, weighs 300 pounds, and it ain't Santa Claus. ;3

300 pound candy cane? I don't know.

[Bakamoichigei]

lol, not quite, no.
NEO-GEO MVS-4-25 Version 1; a 4-Slot NEO-GEO cabinet. (The Ver.1 is the best-looking 4-slot, classic arcade cabinet look!) It was not easy getting that sucker up a narrow flight of stairs, I tell ya. But worth it. Here's a couple pics from the day I got it, before I cleaned it up and replaced the buttons and sticks with new parts...

http://media.giantpachinkomachineofdoom.com/blog/2010-02/images/unwrappingpresents.jpg
http://media.giantpachinkomachineofdoom.com/blog/2010-02/images/cabinetcorner.jpg

[Netsa]

Originally posted by GPMoDBakamoichigei:

lol, not quite, no.
NEO-GEO MVS-4-25 Version 1; a 4-Slot NEO-GEO cabinet. (The Ver.1 is the best-looking 4-slot, classic arcade cabinet look!) It was not easy getting that sucker up a narrow flight of stairs, I tell ya. But worth it. Here's a couple pics from the day I got it, before I cleaned it up and replaced the buttons and sticks with new parts...

http://media.giantpachinkomachineofdoom.com/blog/2010-02/images/unwrappingpresents.jpg
http://media.giantpachinkomachineofdoom.com/blog/2010-02/images/cabinetcorner.jpg

Oh, nice. I was born into consoles, though (earliest being the NES), so I've never played a fighting game on a cabinet. Well, I've failed a couple times at Arcades, but I don't really count those.