Shotgun - Gamble?

[Dont be Silly Wrap your Willy]

Every time you make a shot with shotgun it seems that game rolls digital dice and that is how outcome of that shot is decided.

I've tested shotgun pretty well in my 17hours or game. With grip, without grip , laser sight , slugs and so on. Sometimes it works like a charm, with grip and slugs you can use it effectively at decent range. Thou sometimes you land 2 hits to someone standing 3 steps away then he turns around and kills you. And you can clearly see both hits hitting ( no blood but dust effects ) .

Yes i'm aware of things like armor, effects of slugs and other things to be considered but then you cant kill someone from 3 steps away with shot gun.. makes you wonder.

[Numbers]

I agree, I feel as if the shotgun in this game isn't all that accurately depicted. Feels under-powered.

[Johari]

Pretend you're the terminator and aim for the legs or other extremeties.
I unintentionally hit the legs and arms very often in CQC and it combined with the shotgun works very well. I stay away from slugs because frankly, slugs suck and the shotgun simply shouldn't be used for "midrange" combat other than in alleyways or something, in my opinion.

Anyway, I think it uses 2 or 3 smaller slugs rather than 1 big'un so that may contribute to its apparent lack of stopping power. I agree that one shouldn't be able to simply continue to walk through a shotgun blast though.

[V.A.R.E.L.L.A]

i think so

[TARS]

If there's no blood (but dust effects) it means you are hitting his armour.

Nonetheless shotgun can be very hit and miss sometimes, this is due to the sometimes questionable hit detention... Especially with high ping players who lag.

[Dr.Wholian?]

Spread is too wide. IRL shotgun spread is roughly 1" per yard - meaning at 25 yards, it should only spread 2 feet - yet usually at this range I see my pellets spreading 5 feet across. Since you basically need a lucky headshot to kill anyone with armor, the odds become entirely too low when spread is this exaggerated.

[T-Bone Biggins]

No game has ever gotten shotguns right in the history of gaming to this date. Most people think the shot scatters all across your screen and there is a max range of 10 yards for the damn things. In reality the only shotgun I have seen that spreads shot out like that isn't a shotgun at all, it's the Taurus Judge in .410. That thing literally is like most games, past 7 yards you are going to miss a human torso with half the shot. But in reality most shotguns are good with shot much futher than that.

[Dont be Silly Wrap your Willy]

T-Bone Biggins lähetti viestin:

No game has ever gotten shotguns right in the history of gaming to this date. Most people think the shot scatters all across your screen and there is a max range of 10 yards for the damn things. In reality the only shotgun I have seen that spreads shot out like that isn't a shotgun at all, it's the Taurus Judge in .410. That thing literally is like most games, past 7 yards you are going to miss a human torso with half the shot. But in reality most shotguns are good with shot much futher than that.

Thats what i find strange. They got most of weapons pretty right ( as i had chance to test some of them in real life ) but then it came to shotgun ... its a sci-fi .

[Dr.Wholian?]

T-Bone Biggins lähetti viestin:

No game has ever gotten shotguns right in the history of gaming to this date. Most people think the shot scatters all across your screen and there is a max range of 10 yards for the damn things. In reality the only shotgun I have seen that spreads shot out like that isn't a shotgun at all, it's the Taurus Judge in .410. That thing literally is like most games, past 7 yards you are going to miss a human torso with half the shot. But in reality most shotguns are good with shot much futher than that.

The exaggerated spread thing is true of a lot of games, but they didn't start out that way. Doom 1&2 and Quake 1&2 both had single barrel shotguns which were very accurate.

The problem was that there was always a double barrel shotgun which functioned like an M79 loaded with 40mm buck, and due to the multiplayer balance, the double barrel became the standard expectation for shotgun performance. In Quake 3 they dropped the single barrel shotgun on account of redundancy, and after that, high profile mainstream shooters like Halo started using the Q3 double barrel as their model for ordinary single barrel shotguns.

While Id games inadvertently started the trend, Halo undoubtedly made it worse, as an entire generations' first exposure to multiplayer shooters was the crap Halo 2 shotgun. Bungie actually used a donut-shaped spread pattern for that - wherein no pellets would hit within the "hole" of the donut. Thus, you were actually more likely to hit someone by aiming away from them, and centering the muzzle on them perfectly guaranteed the least possible amount of pellets would hit. Additionally, the pellets magically disappeared after 10 yds and caused no damage after that point.

Through all that garbage, games like Infiltration managed to maintain realistic shotgun spreads. So it's not true that "no game has every got it right", just very few games ever did. Plus, Doom and Quake were on the right track back in 1994/1996.

[@theweedfather]

T-Bone Biggins lähetti viestin:

No game has ever gotten shotguns right in the history of gaming to this date. Most people think the shot scatters all across your screen and there is a max range of 10 yards for the damn things. In reality the only shotgun I have seen that spreads shot out like that isn't a shotgun at all, it's the Taurus Judge in .410. That thing literally is like most games, past 7 yards you are going to miss a human torso with half the shot. But in reality most shotguns are good with shot much futher than that.

Battlefield 3 did, but too many noobs cried about being shot by a shotgun at medium ranges so they nerfed it to hell.
People just don't like dying to shotguns, and they cry really loudly about it.

[Kubusta]

+1, I agree that Shotguns need to be buffed a bit, cause you really dont know when you can secure sure kill or not

[UncleTimsTruck]

Spread seems fine to me

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=233233381

Pretty much the same spread my M590A1 SPX is going to have at that range with an open choke and 3 inch 00 buckshot.

[T-Bone Biggins]

Gnalvl lähetti viestin:

The exaggerated spread thing is true of a lot of games, but they didn't start out that way. Doom 1&2 and Quake 1&2 both had single barrel shotguns which were very accurate.

Doom and Quake did not do shotguns right, they had shot in pre-made patterns that were forced to fire at least some shot perfectly like a rifle straight to where you aimed. It's worse in the original GTA Vice City, where you literally had 3 pistol bullets you could watch fan out at 45-60 degrees to the sides and one go perfectly straight like a rifle.

[Enemy]

Slugs are pretty accurate, sorry :(

[Dr.Wholian?]

Ug. Jihad™ lähetti viestin:

Pretty much the same spread my M590A1 SPX is going to have at that range with an open choke and 3 inch 00 buckshot.

What I find in games is you really have to fire the whole mag at the same point to see what the consistent performance is actually like, because 1 shot might randomly be pretty tight, and the next might be terrible. Tell me what you think of this:

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b500/Gnalvl/ministry0017_zps893c04e7.jpg~original
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b500/Gnalvl/ministry0018_zps8a3e881d.jpg~original

(sorry for Photobucket, please keep clicking the zoom icon till you get the full res)

It's always a little shaky judging distances in games because FOV distorts things, but I wouldn't call that longer than 25 yards, and the spread seems to be at least 50" wide. Using the soldier as a reference, it's 2 shoulder widths wide and almost as tall as he is. Looks wide to me.

T-Bone Biggins lähetti viestin:

Doom and Quake did not do shotguns right, they had shot in pre-made patterns that were forced to fire at least some shot perfectly like a rifle straight to where you aimed.

That's simply not true at all. All of their shotguns are 100% random except for the CPMA competition mod which uses a predefined pattern that deliberately doesn't hit straight to where you aimed.

What is unusual in Doom is that there was no vertical spread, because there was no vertical aiming in the game (instead vertical was auto-aimed) so your pellets land in a horizontal line. But where they land within that line is totally random - though it looks less random than it actually is because there is no vertical deviation.

If you want to contest this, I can dig them up and post screens, or call in the lead developer on the Generations Arena mod, who dissected the source code of those games to reproduce each weapon in D1, D2, Q1, and Q2 exactly as it worked in the original game.

[jV]

WDFTHR lähetti viestin:

T-Bone Biggins lähetti viestin:

No game has ever gotten shotguns right in the history of gaming to this date. Most people think the shot scatters all across your screen and there is a max range of 10 yards for the damn things. In reality the only shotgun I have seen that spreads shot out like that isn't a shotgun at all, it's the Taurus Judge in .410. That thing literally is like most games, past 7 yards you are going to miss a human torso with half the shot. But in reality most shotguns are good with shot much futher than that.

Battlefield 3 did, but too many noobs cried about being shot by a shotgun at medium ranges so they nerfed it to hell.
People just don't like dying to shotguns, and they cry really loudly about it.

BF3 had mini-LAV cannons for shotguns at first. It was an absolute joke. Frag rounds could kill from across the map, had splash damage, and had insane suppression effects. People weren't crying about bucks or flechettes. You can still take people down in one hit with slugs from a decent range on that game too.