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討論區規矩與守則
檢舉此篇文章
https://youtu.be/Qd1wxsAh5n8?t=171
Insurgency M4 Recoil
https://youtu.be/paomKcTREoA?t=135
Escape From Tarkov M4 Recoil
https://youtu.be/XuTb19aR7ys?t=1869
I would have featured ARMA 3, but they don't actually feature the M4A1 in the vanilla game from what I could find.
Now EFT is typically regarded as the most realistic out of the three I listed, but it's also worth noting that the recoil system there automatically compensates for automatic fire while Suad and INS do not. Additionally, EFT allows for passive skill leveling that offers bonuses to recoil control and weapon mastey. It also has a modding system that allows someone to significantly drop their recoil already
Squad's recoil is actually a little less than Insurgency's from what I could observe...but due to the nature of how Squad plays, it doesn't need to be absurdly high. Most engagements take place anywhere from 80-200 meters, and even the slightest drift off target can result in a pretty far miss.
INS on the other hand has some pretty high recoil that requires a decent amount of mouse dragging to remain accurate when fully auto. Additionally hipfiring tends to throw your gun all over the place, and correcting it can lead to more error thanks to the free-aim system.
Now after playing INS Sandstorm Beta 1, I agree that recoil can be VERY forgiving when using a vertical grip / compensator combo. Weapons like the L85, AK-74, M16A2, and M16A4 were really easy to control and be accurate with with those attachments. Heavier weapons like the FAL, MK14, PKM, and M249 were more challenging and required more bursting.
Woah damn. Nice reply. Real stuff. I made this thread a LONG time ago tho LMAO
I have same 'asspain' in Battlefield 1, where long shooting is impossible- ridiculously easy to do.
Hits the shoulder in this game on Source are only lethal with HP rounds, but otherwise I'm pretty sure it's 2-3 shots. The damage model they use is mostly accurate but as with most games, it's impossible to entirely emulate what it would be like to be shot in how it might affect someone, and imo would hinder the gameplay.
It isn't meant to be some super realistic FPS, if anything it's just gritty and hardcore. You die after very few shots, but that does not mean they are attempting to compete with Arma, Squad/Project Reality, Verdun, Post Scriptum or anything else with a focus on realism. They've carved out a little niche of their own in hardcore, frantic paced FPS where you can be absolutely wrecked by a better player based on better aim, awareness and map knowledge.
The realism in the handling is also inspired by the frustration of every modern shooter game having negligible sway so that people can move and shoot nearly as accurately as if prone, and that recoil control-ability results in wildly unrealistic groupings.
The problem is, so many people try it and leave without adapting. I think the reason studios use the unrealistic handling mechanics is because players have a hard time adapting to it... I've even had veterans with plenty real life shooting experience jump in and complain that the sway is too high and unrealistic (if anything it's lower and I hope to bump it if players will allow)... why? Because even those vets are used to modern "tactical" shooters. Hell even few experienced shooters I collaborate with didn't really process it at first... To convince them, I had to get them to go out, buy a cheap laser sight, attach it to their fire arm, then try different positions and movements and record the laser movement on a target to watch back... suddenly it's "oh wow".
So why do even some realism fans reject it? It's a a combination of certain aspects of human perception, pared with the way sights mechanics are handled in games, as well as an immediate natural acceptance our body's natural instability vs a simulated instability in a game. I understand the instinct to reject it, but the only alternative is a cone of fire (ala counterstrike) and CSGO et all actually do that well and could be said to have much better tactical realism in this way (let me be clear, only in a very narrow aspect of this specific mechanic, so if you boiled down tactical realism into 100 features, CSGO would have this 1/100 thing right above most all others). Personally I don't like cones of fire, not for the randomness, but for the lack of feedback, that vicerally visual awareness of the instability. IRL even with high sway you can see the sway, and you can wait for a moment that feels right to pull the trigger... thus you increase your chances of making the shot. Feeling the right moment to pull the trigger is a big part of accurate shooting IRL.
RS2 and RO2 are better than most at this but not great (giving the appearance of significant movement sway for example, but it's more of an illusion AFAICT). Sandstorm and INS are pretty bad. Last I played Squad I was impressed with the sway over INS, but still saw much lacking. ARMA does an excellent job at this in most cases from my limited experience.
Recoil is a whole other matter, even many experienced shooters don't realize it's not hard to get an m4 to have downward recoil simply by changing how you shoulder it. And if you get it just right, there is VERY little visible recoil (vector delta / aim kick distance, analyzing using a laser and high frame rate video), but it depends on so much. I wish there was a game that modeled all the nuances of real life recoil and sighting (front post focus anyone?), but I'll take tactical realism in lieu of that (specifically, that if I empty a mag into a paper target in game, I should get a realistic spread as a result, and if I shoot in semi auto at different intervals (1 sec/shot, 5 sec/shot, etc), I should have respectively similar spreads as IRL (precision and accuracy)).
Operator goes about this by comparing in game shot distribution vs IRL distribution. IT's a holistic approach that is much more successful at nearing real tactical realism than just looking at gun specs and massaging data. I see a difference between real data based recoil (eg: take free recoil values or round kinetic energy and that is your recoil value scaled), and data informed design that is tested based on it's accuracy (have a realistic goal, and use data to inform a holistic approach to solving how to best model that and other goals in a consistent and accurate way). And when I say holistic, I mean not just consider the weapons stats like free recoil on wikipedia for deriving recoil values, or a postmortem tissue analysis of wound cavities for specific cartridges to determine a damage value. I mean for damage the need to consider the chance of maiming if a bone is shattered, the chance of critical organs being wounded and the effect. I mean for recoil the need to consider the kinesiology related to a body absorbing recoil, about the increase in stability and impulse if rone and the inverse effects standing. What's more about getting enough experiential knowledge from shooters who really know each weapon, combat medics who can attest the the immediate effect of gunshot wounds in the field. About vets who can attest the the effect of stress of your stability while being shot at, etc.
For me, the critical aspects of tactical realism is effective accuracy (sway & recoil), realistic incapacitation and injury (damage model), environment (barrier penetration, armor), and movement.
Operator works at the damage and armor by completely reworking the hitboxes and damage model to support a hugely more robust level of realism. Sadly injury (eg: critical leg shot prevents sprinting) is not possible without sourcemod and Operator has thus far managed to avoid sourcemod to maximize compatibility and longevity of the mod (as well as simplicity of setting up your own Operator server). The sway and recoil have been painstakingly been scrutinized and gone through over 20 very different paradigms, and 300 paradigm modifications and combinations for weapon classes from more than 5 years of effort to reach it's current level of tactical realism in sway and recoil. No paradigm is perfect, not least because there are major limitation in the INS recoil and sway systems, as well as simple bugs that complicate certain paradigms altogether. Movement in Operator has also been scrutinized for realistic speeds and their effect of sway (for example crouch movement (duck walking) has much more sway than standing movement, and you are really unstable right out of a sprint). A massive amount of detail and consideration. And improvement is still always sought after.
So if tactical realism really is your thing, try Operator total conversion mod:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1565227866
* Disclaimer: I work on Operator