Insurgency

Insurgency

查看统计:
此主题已被锁定
Andy 2014 年 2 月 16 日 下午 7:44
Remove Aiming Dead Zone
This is meant to be a realistic/hardcore/competetive game. Aiming Dead Zone causes inconsistent mouse movement, like mouse acceloration, and any decent gamer would never use mouse acceloration.

"Firing from the hip" isnt like John Rambo and his m60 machine gun lol, its mounted on the soldiers shoulder, ready to fire accurately within a reasonably close distance.

Possibly give "firing from the hip" a less pin-point bullet trajectory, so the bullet spread has a bigger radius the faster the player is moving, which would make it pretty unaccurate at long range, making people aim down their sights, making it more realistic all around, close,mid and long range combat.

This game has the best weapon mechanics I have ever played, its just ruined by the dead zone. Hopfully youll remove it, but I cant see myself stacking up 100s of hours on this game with dead zone, no matter how good of a game it is. :(
最后由 Andy 编辑于; 2014 年 2 月 16 日 下午 7:48
< >
正在显示第 16 - 30 条,共 80 条留言
Dr.Wholian? 2014 年 2 月 18 日 下午 12:00 
Deadzones are on console analog joysticks, and it's an assigned amount of movement in the stick that the game just ignores as false data. This is done because analog sticks are already falling apart the day you buy them, and jiggle around on their own. If the deadzone is set to small for the wear condition of your stick, your character will start moving on their own.

Free-aim is best demonstrated in the game Infiltration here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHl2sPT2vyg#t=16

When you move the mouse, it moves the gun around without rotating the entire screen, until the gun reaches the edge of a limited radius - then the whole camera rotates. Because the gun moves a little bit on its own, it's not locked to the exact center of the screen, so without using the sights, you don't know EXACTLY where the shots will go. Even if you draw a dot with a dry erase marker, the gun will actually be pointing off center from it.

Outside of PC tactical shooters, the most mainstream games to use it are Wii shooters like Metroid Prime 3 - usually the wiimote moves your crosshair all over the screen until it gets near the very edge of the screen, then your whole camera rotates.

The aiming system in Timesplitters 1&2 on PS2/Xbox used free-aim as well.
Michal 2014 年 2 月 18 日 下午 12:42 
I remember there was hefty of freeaim in ARMA 2 and It was veeery annoying. Minimal amount can prevent reciticule hacking though. I don't see other point in freeaim.

引用自 Gnalvl
Deadzones are on console analog joysticks, and it's an assigned amount of movement in the stick that the game just ignores as false data. This is done because analog sticks are already falling apart the day you buy them, and jiggle around on their own. If the deadzone is set to small for the wear condition of your stick, your character will start moving on their own.

Free-aim is best demonstrated in the game Infiltration here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHl2sPT2vyg#t=16

When you move the mouse, it moves the gun around without rotating the entire screen, until the gun reaches the edge of a limited radius - then the whole camera rotates. Because the gun moves a little bit on its own, it's not locked to the exact center of the screen, so without using the sights, you don't know EXACTLY where the shots will go. Even if you draw a dot with a dry erase marker, the gun will actually be pointing off center from it.

Outside of PC tactical shooters, the most mainstream games to use it are Wii shooters like Metroid Prime 3 - usually the wiimote moves your crosshair all over the screen until it gets near the very edge of the screen, then your whole camera rotates.

The aiming system in Timesplitters 1&2 on PS2/Xbox used free-aim as well.
最后由 Michal 编辑于; 2014 年 2 月 18 日 下午 12:44
Andy 2014 年 2 月 18 日 下午 12:47 
What youve just said about free aim is exactly what deadzone is. Check insurgencies config.cfg, check rusts config, check arma 2 and 3s game options. Theyre all called dead zone. Stop acting like youre an expert.
Dr.Wholian? 2014 年 2 月 18 日 下午 1:22 
No, a deadzone disregards all input within the defined range. In free-aim, the input is not disregarded, but simply transferred to weapon rotation rather than camera rotation. These terms date back to 1999, long before Arma, Insurgency, and Rust. This is not expert knowledge, this is basic ♥♥♥♥ to anyone who hasn't had their head stuck up Valve and Infinity Ward's asses for the last 15 years.
Agiel 2014 年 2 月 18 日 下午 2:52 
I feel like people are talking past each other slightly. Here are some definitions I would use in the context of this thread:

Dead zone = An area of the screen where the player can move the gun around and mouse input doesn't affect the direction the player is looking.

Free aim = The gun isn't tied to the center of the screen. This is a more genral term than dead zone since there are many different implementations of free aim and not all of them include a dead zone.

Insurgency seems to be using a sort of hybrid system where the screen doesn't move while the gun is pointing towards a very small area in the center of the screen, but starts moving as you aim further to the sides. This is my main contention as it makes looking around feel very jerky. A full on dead zone that cover the entirety of the "free aim" area (like in Infiltration or ArmA) would be much better as it would be more consistent.

Even better still though would be free aim with no dead zone at all. You retain full control of the direction you're looking at all times with no annoying mouse acceleration effects. The gun and the direction you're aiming just moves slightly faster. This is exactly how it works in Red Orchestra and it's by far the best implementation I've seen in any game.
Snuffeldjuret 2014 年 2 月 19 日 上午 6:59 
Don't think that you move the screen when you move your mouse. Instead think about how you move your weapon when you move your mouse. That will make it feel way, way more comfortable. Not 100% sure if the weapon movement is consistently proportional to the mouse movement, but I would not be surprised if it was!
Agiel 2014 年 2 月 19 日 上午 7:57 
I'm pretty sure it is, and I agree it's probably possible to get used to it. The problem I have is that the dead zone is so small that it doesn't serve any real purpose other than annoy people (like me), and as such it might as well be removed in favour of an implementation more like (again) Red Orchestra.

To be clear, I'm not aguing against the idea of a free aim at all. I know a lot of people like it (although dslyecxi turned around a while back and laid out some good arguments against it[dslyecxi.com]). What I'm saying is that the implementation in Insurgency is flawed with the dead zone being as tiny as it is.
Snuffeldjuret 2014 年 2 月 19 日 上午 8:52 
I think it is a bit hyperbolic to say that it serves no purpose other than to annoy you and your kind. The purpose is to reduce the chance in the game, without encouraging people to give themselves unfair advantages.

I have yet to encounter a "free-aim" master that shows that the system is flawed. To me it seems to do exactly what it is supposed to do.

I prefer the insurgency system over the RO2 one.
Agiel 2014 年 2 月 19 日 上午 9:05 
I suppose I could've worded that better. If the dead zone were larger it would serve a purpose, right now it doesn't really. If I'm missing someting here, please inform me. The purpose you say it has is just as well filled by a system like Red Orchestra's with no dead zone, which I would argue is a lot less annoying because screen movement remains mapped 1:1 to mouse movement.
Dr.Wholian? 2014 年 2 月 19 日 上午 9:11 
I hate RO2's free-aim system, the gun swivels around too much, resulting in a limp-wristed feeling. It is an ok representation of shooting from the hip per WWII-era marching fire doctrine, but not a very good representation of shooting from the high ready position per modern point-shooting doctrine.

Of all the games to feature free-aimed point shooting, I think Insurgency strikes the best balance of large vs small free-aim area. Pointshooting in Infiltration and RO feels too inaccurate, while point-shooting in Takedown is too accurate - allowing you to snipe from 100-300 meters by drawing a dot on the screen.

In my day, between tormenting my childhood friends with super soakers, playing lasertag, paintball, and solving rodent infestations with airsoft guns, I have done a lot of point-shooting, and to me, Insurgency's point-shooting feels the most analogous to real life.

I have never tried pointshooting at the range with real firearms, but I think the above experiences should suffice, considering most point shooting training in the law enforcement and military field was done with BB guns for most of the 20th century. The biggest difference from real firearms is recoil, and we already know that Insurgency takes recoil into account.

If anything, I think it'd be cool to have an option to toggle on free-aim for iron sighted shooting. Being able to pull the rifle out of the center of the screen to get an unobstructed view was really nice in Infiltration and enhanced the natural feeling of the game. We shouldn't HAVE to rely on the high ready position all the time to get decent visibility.
Agiel 2014 年 2 月 19 日 上午 9:21 
Let's not confuse Red Orchestra's free-aim "system" with it's wide free-aim "area" shall we. If you have any arguments against the actual free-aim system - i.e. mouse mapped 1:1 to screen movement, gun moves faster - I'd love to hear them ;)
♥ Romantique Tp 2014 年 2 月 19 日 下午 12:19 
引用自 nuh1
引用自 Gnalvl
I have hipshot people on the run IRL with pump-action paintball guns, and it didn't feel anything like a CS:GO conefire dice roll.
CS 1.6 > CS:GO

At this point I don't even consider CS:GO a part of the series gameplay mechanics wise. In 1.6 the "spray" was very tight and controllable with practice. In GO, the patterns are so floaty and random compared to 1.6.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Stop judging the game based on assumptions you made when you played it over a year ago.

For starters, random spread is in EVERY CS GAME, it doesn't matter if you're standing still or crouching, it's always there, and the overall spread is actually much smaller in CSGO[imgur.com] except while you're running or jumping.

Second, every gun in CSGO has a single unique spray pattern, the only random factor is a small amount of spread that's only there to prevent spraying from being effective at long range and to reduce the likehood of you getting a random headshot. The recoil in 1.6 was random[i.imgur.com] as hell[/quote].[i.imgur.com]
最后由 ♥ Romantique Tp 编辑于; 2014 年 2 月 19 日 下午 12:40
♥ Romantique Tp 2014 年 2 月 19 日 下午 12:43 
引用自 Captain Jesus!
Also, yo, don't bag on Counter-Strike.

He's one of those grumpy old guys who believes any games that don't help feed their military fantasies is garbage, and are upset that CS is much more popular than their "hardcore" realistic shooters. Don't mind his opinions on games too much.
Dr.Wholian? 2014 年 2 月 19 日 下午 2:10 
引用自 ♥ Bigode
He's one of those grumpy old guys who believes any games that don't help feed their military fantasies is garbage, and are upset that CS is much more popular than their "hardcore" realistic shooters. Don't mind his opinions on games too much.
On the contrary, I enjoy a lot of games which are complete fantasy, even those as extreme as Q3 or Unreal Tournament. CS's primary problem is, even when you ignore the fact that it presents itself as a realism shooter when it's not - the gameplay is just bad.

By the standards of fantasy shooters, hitscan guns are the most simplistic and least skill-based weapons in a game. This is why classic shooters focused on projectiles like rockets, grenades, nails, and plasma bolts - they involve leading, prediction and mind games rather than just point-and-click reaction shooting. CS dumps all that, putting the entire focus on simplistic, point-and-click hitscan guns.

Of course, the logical counter-measure in a situation like that would be to compensate by increasing the depth of hitscan shooting. Instead, CS just adds wider spreads and a greater luck-based elements, making things even worse.

Even by the standards of reticle bloom-based shooting, CS's recoil system is just bad and so many others achieve a more natural and more skill-based bloom systems - Day of Defeat, FEAR, and HL2 are a few examples.

FFS, you could get a better spread system out of Halo 1 if you took 2 seconds to mod it:

http://youtu.be/mi4QFesMahE

CS is popular because it was the first of its kind. In the tactical shooter genre, it was trumped by Operation Flashpoint, Infiltration, and Ravenshield very quickly. In the competitive genre, it was always trumped by Quake and UT. And now in the casual genre, it's been trumped by COD and BF.

Age-wise, I could still see how bad CS was when I was 14, and I won't be 30 for another few months.

引用自 Agiel
Let's not confuse Red Orchestra's free-aim "system" with it's wide free-aim "area" shall we. If you have any arguments against the actual free-aim system - i.e. mouse mapped 1:1 to screen movement, gun moves faster - I'd love to hear them ;)
That's the thing - I'm not sure that RO2's free-aim area is much different in sheer size than Infiltration or Insurgency. It's more like the slightest movements within RO2's same free-aim area cause rotation of the weapon that is too extreme.

In INS and INF, even when the weapon is moving all around the free-aim area, it still feels like the avatar is firmly pointing the gun forward, toward what he's looking at. In RO2 it feels like the gun is flopping around sloppily - it feels like you're looking one way and shooting in the other, like a basketball fakeout.
最后由 Dr.Wholian? 编辑于; 2014 年 2 月 19 日 下午 2:13
Andy 2014 年 2 月 19 日 下午 2:23 
^This guy and his long posts, wowwwwwww!!! tltr...
< >
正在显示第 16 - 30 条,共 80 条留言
每页显示数: 1530 50

发帖日期: 2014 年 2 月 16 日 下午 7:44
回复数: 80