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Tartışma Kuralları ve Yönergeleri
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LT DANGLE BERRIES, "You should be able to point a handgun at a target and not have to even look at the sights to correct. Getting a correct sight picture is something that should be 100% natural. If you can't do that, you need more practice. So sights should be slight "blurry" and target clear. [...] I have a B-34 target right next to me, shot at 50yds,"
Between 5 to 12,5, sure, you can only designate your target with the guy as if you were pointing your finger at it, and provided your weapon is parallel to the ground, it should hit the target. In this kind, you are not focusing on your sights. But this is not even called aiming with the sight - so we're kind of off topic here, unless you are telling you are firing at 50 meters with a handgun without aiming. And then i'd say I'm quite puzzled. Is that so?
TangoVulture, "When acquiring the correct sight picture your eyes are constantly changing focus between the target". What do you say to the guys I linked that says that you cannot reliably go back and forth to focus your sights and the target and expect to hit if the shot goes when your focus is on the target and not the sight?
"Following a moving target and trying to focus on an absolutely clear front or rear sight will slow down your ability to focus on what you're trying to hit". But the point is that you actually should not focus on you what you are trying to hit. You should see your target, not focus on it (hence the title: blurry target).
Do I want my targets to get blurry when I aim down sights? No.
If you post in a public forum you have to deal with other's responses. If you can't then don't post ^^
To satisfy your need for "reference":
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?336674-Game-Design-108-Realism-vs-Fun
You can find the same POV in basically every decent book on game design.
Do I want my targets to get blurry when I aim down sights? No."
Ok. But do I want my targets to get blurry when I aim down the sights. Yes.
So other players may say they'd like to fly, because there is a line between realism and game design, after all.
So what do we do now? Well, we let the developers decide whether they want to change the gameplay to be more realistic or else.
Developers from COD (or was it MOH? I forgot) said they tested realistics features on players and decided to go for unrealistic because many of their players based where not that much into realism that could not be so fun. I think Insurgency is free to take another approach.
"To satisfy your need for "reference":
Actually, I was talking only about firearms here. I dont think there's much need to discuss about whether Insurgency should be realistic or not. That's entirely up to the developers. I think they already take a lot of steps in that direction, I'm suggesting a way to continue in this fashion.
In that case, they'll probably should have their sights blurry (as the human cannot focus on both) and that would imply a serious miss factor on mid-range/long-range.
As I also stated, if the shots had been at 250 yards with iron sights, the front post would have covered the entire target so would have been very, very good shooting if it had been at 250 yards.
The bottom line for Gewehrztraminer 1664. Can your eyes physicaly focus on a spot only a couple inches in front of them? Can your eyes focus on a spot 16 inches from them? Can your eyes focus on a spot 100 yards in front of them? All at the same time? No, of course not. Your brain is sending instructions to your eyes many times a second and your eyes, to the best of their ability, are constantly attempting to focus various objects from 2 inches to 3600 inches away in order to keep the sight picture as "useable" as possible.
Since it's highly unlikely a human being would have had a 1x1000 power macro/telephoto lens inplanted where the eyes go, the rear sight is always going to be blurry to the human eye with the front sight being clearer assuming normal human vision. Remember that the rear sight in a large majority of non-AK design weapons is only approximately 2 inches away from your eye. It will be blurry unless you have some superhuman qualities. Try focusing through or at something that close with only a pinhole (relatively speaking) to see through...
I know what I focus on when I'm shooting, if Gewehrztraminer 1664 want's to keep the sights in focus and the target out of focus he may hit things downrange but those things may be bushes, fencposts, boulders or non-combatants. My eyes simply aren't plucked out of an eagle or hawk to give me that acuity at that range so I need to concentrate on the target and make it the "focus" of my attention while focusing as well as my mere human eyes can on keeping a correct (even though blurry) sight picture.
Exactly.
Let me ask you this Gewehrztraminer1964: If your target is blurry and out of focus, how would you have any idea what is BEHIND your target?
TangoVulture, the issue at stake is not between front and rear sight, I say for short sights clear and target blurry. Now, if you want, we can be precise as front sight clear, rear sight less clear and target blurry. Right, but it's more about the sights by comparison to the target that I'm talking about.
LT DANGLE BERRIES! "BEHIND" the target?
I see the target, then I take the iron sights to aim this target, I focus on my front sight while I'm starting handle the trigger. The target gets blurry because there is no way my eye can be focused on both the target and the sights. Hopefully I reach a satisfying aim with my sights correctly aligned with the target that is now a blurry shape and the shot is fired and hit the target.
I absolutely do not understand how you can be sure to hit a target with a clear view on your front sight. What's this, you think you'll be still properly aligned after you spent time to focus on your target, or you do have a technique to properly align sights without looking at them? How does it work? Obviously the game align properly the sights whenever you aim, as if you were a perfect shot, but in reality you do have to see your sights are some point, it's not just the middle of the screen.
With a real gun, the target might appear more blurry when focusing on that sight, but the problem is, the game doesn't know immediately what your objective is when you go to ADS mode. You need to focus on the target to acquire it before you can focus on the sights to perfect the shot. I can think of way too many scenarios where this would cause unrealistic problems.
For example, let's say you expect the enemy to come through a certain doorway in the distance, but he's not there yet. You point your sights there so you can hit the enemy as soon as they appear, but if the game blurs the screen behind your sight post, you might not spot them when they show up. Realistically you would focus your eyes on the suspected target area until they arrive there, and THEN you would focus on the front sight.
In another example, you go to ADS simply to be ready for incoming fire and scan for targets over a wide area. If the game blurs everything behind the front sight, now you can't distinguish distant enemies from the rocks and trees that surround them.
And then there's the simple fact that specific "both eyes open" shooting techniques exist for CQB, as well as sights and optics designs for shooting both eyes open and focusing on the target.
By opting out of the depth of field effect, you allow players to use ADS mode for the multiple purposes it needs to fill. Players need to be able to change their focus on the fly, and unless you add a button to toggle their avatar's depth of field like a camera (which is needlessly awkward), adding a blur behind the front site disables people from choosing where to focus on their own, with their naked eyes.
Would the ability to fly with a jetpack make the game less annoying to you, maybe, no? Would that make the game more realistic or not, would that make the game more immersive or not is what I'm interested in.
That's a good point. Still, if we admit that you cannot properly aim without focusing on front sight, there's something to think about. At the time of CS 1.3, the notion of aiming down the sight would have came as an inadmissible extra nuisance. Still, it was added.
"nd then there's the simple fact that specific "both eyes open" shooting techniques exist for CQB, as well as sights and optics designs for shooting both eyes open and focusing on the target."
But we are no longer talking about iron sight then, no? I think that's kind of the point. Right now, in most games, having holographic sight or iron sight is a matter of cosmetics. That's definitely not how it is in reality.
" adding a blur behind the front site disables people from choosing where to focus on their own, with their naked eyes"
As said, that's a good point. Nonetheless, firing with an handgun at 50 meters without taking care of the sight is normally bound to fail.
I noticed you can already stop your breathing when you aim. Isn't that exactly supposed to increase aim?
First, in game, the iron sights, holographic sights and telescopic sights all make the sight picture appear to the player on the same focal plane.
Second, in real life, iron sights don't make the sight picture appear on the same focal plane. There are three seperate focal poinst that appear as we sight down range through the iron sights. They are rear sight, front sight and target. Since the rear sight is too close too focus on clearly unless we have a macro lens implant in our sighting eye, we have a choice of focusing on the front sight or the target. If the shooter is busy getting that picture perfect clear image of the front sight the target will go blurry. That's not what you want. You want the target to appear as sharp and focused as is possible.
Third, in game, for the developers to come as close as possible to the way iron sights work in real life, they need to use some artistic license and make the sights appear slightly out of focus (blurry). With front slightly blurry and rear sights even more blurry and the target the object of focus, the appearance (in game) needs to allow for the fact that (in real life) the shooter sights through (not at) the sights and sights at the target.
Now a question for Gewehrztraminer 1664. How many weapons have you fired, and at only paper? A bench rest shooter uses slightly different techniques than some one engaged in combat. Shooting off the bench assume the paper isn't shooting back and there's time to get everything including the breathing, grip, cheekweld and sight picture as close to ideal as possible. CQC and sniping are different enough for the techniques to be different. But the eyes and brain work exactly the same. As does the sight picture.