aiming with iron sights: blurry target, clear sights

[L'aventure c'est l'aventure]

Hello,

How about, when aiming with iron sights get what you are supposed to with a real weapon, that is blurry view of the target (and anything long distance) and clear view of the sights, because that what you are focusing on?

[♥ Romantique Tp]

You don't focus on the sights while aiming. That's stupid. Ever heard of ghost rings ?

[L'aventure c'est l'aventure]

Ahum, I'd like input only from people that actually ever fired a gun. Without getting into details about every different kind of scope, let's just focus for instance on the simple sidearm with open sight.
You would definitely not focus on the target while shooting but definitely the front sight. That's lesson 101.

Example http://blog.davingranroth.com/2009/10/how-to-aim-with-iron-sights/

[L'aventure c'est l'aventure]

Even more descriptive, for the curious, http://www.brianzins.com/2010/03/16/sight-alignment-or-better-yet-lets-call-it-aiming-with-iron-sights/

[Leo3ABP]

IRL it is quite the opposite to what OP says. When u focus on target, u have both target and upper part of open sight almost equally focused (almost, coz when u start aiming u have more focus on your sight, but in later stage of aiming, when u alighned your gun, your focus switches more to target), the rest becomes what u call "blurred".

[L'aventure c'est l'aventure]

Ok, actually this post was addressed to the developers (hence: ideas, issue, feedback)

I already provided two links describing in length what I'm talking about and asked specifically that people that never fired a gun refrain from commenting about what they think it could be *IRL*.
I thought I was talking about something unchallenged, I missed out the possibility of comments from people completely clueless about firearm ("upper part" of sights? what's the lower part?) or even basic notion of focus (hint: "equally focused" is a funny notion, and if you dont understand why, that's probably part of the problem). Fact is I'm not really up to debate this here with comments not even providing a single reference to support their claims.

So I dont think there is much point for me to collect more links describing what I'm talking about so far.

I only suggest that the devs take the question into consideration and ask around - making such an immersive game, I'm sure they have informed contact that can provide them the necessary details and decide whether is pertinent to implement this.

[Atlas]

I'll quote one of your articles for you.

Remember this is for Bulls-eye shooters. Action shooters, you can look at whatever you want depending on the distance.

[L'aventure c'est l'aventure]

Rastion,

Please copy the full paragraph from the sentence you quoted and tell exactly to which part of the paragraph it refers to exactly. Do you seriously think the guy that wrote "Before I get ahead of myself, IRON SIGHTS and only iron sights. Our focus needs to be on the FRONT SIGHT. At all times with iron sights you need to maintain focus on the front sight.", ". I have not met this guy but every clinic Andy Moody and I conduct we hear about this guy in the club. No one has ever given him a name, or pointed at him like they seeing a Bigfoot but, we are starting to think it’s the same guy and he travels from club to club giving bad advice. Advice like look back and forth front sight to target to make sure you are aligned to the center of the target.", etc. Do you really think the guy would contradict himself blattantly or maybe considered that he just mentionned that "At no time should your focus come off the front sight [...]I know when the gun goes bang and goes into recoil it is hard to follow the front sight" is not applicable to action shooting, because you have other concern between shots (and that here, is really saying that even between shots you shoot not loose your focus)?

Am I to understand that: you are not an Insurgency developper and that you are not familiar with fire weapons? So... ? Hum... ?

Ok, for fun, one more link http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread497622/pg1 "Proper Sight picture is the part where people get in trouble... it's natural to want to look at the target but that is a huge mistake... one it distracts so you lose proper Alignment... the only place your eyes should on is that front sight! let everything else blur out "

[Meidomancer]

it's easy to stare cross-eyed at the frontsight when you're sitting at a table plinking bright white steelplates, but in the real world being able to see what's going on is usually more important than sub-centimetre shot groupings.

[TARS]

The idea was right but what it should be in...

aiming with iron sights: blurry EDGES, clear sights.

It should be like this http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/Forums/M1A-Socom-039.jpg

as you can see the front post (center of focus) is clear, and the back post and weapon are blurred.

[L'aventure c'est l'aventure]

futacake: sure, in a firefight, you'll often loose the focus on your front sight because you definitely need a global view of the events, you cannot just behave like you are in the stand with no danger around.
Still, when you do fire, you want to hit your target. You want to be sure to do it. I dont want to quote so many military guides now (but the marksman m1 guide given during WWII could be an example - "there is not shooting that is about right", first page) but, really, when you are firing a weapon, it is to eliminate the hostile and not take down any friendly/passive. There is no room for about right, it has to be.
So whether you need to check the whole environment regularly, when you fire with iron sight, you want to be focused only on your iron sight, nothing else. And we're not talking subcentimeters. With a sidearm, already at 25 meters you dont hit your target without proper aiming.

[TangoVulture]

First a qualifier, this is from my own experience, not books, not games...


The distance between front and rear iron sights is very different between not only side arms but rifles and carbines. The vast majority of Ak style weapons have a much shorter distance between sights than does the Garand or Mini-14 or M16.

When acquiring the correct sight picture your eyes are constantly changing focus between the target, the front sight and the rear sight. The more mature your eyes get the slower eyes are able to change focus from all three points and keeping a point down range as focused as the iron sights is problematic.

If your target has your primary focus all you need to do with the front and rear sights on a weapon is to keep the front post centered in the rear notch and keep the top of the post even with the top of the rear sight. With ghost sights the brain does a fine job keeping the front post centered in the ring but I can say from experience that the rear "peep" will seldom be clear. It doesn't need to be. Your brain will center the front sight for you.

Following a moving target and trying to focus on an absolutely clear front or rear sight will slow down your ability to focus on what you're trying to hit. I think anyone that's shot at "moving" targets with any amount of success will seldom report seeing both front and rear sights clearly since they're concentrating on the target. If you've shot at many "moving" targets and did spend the time trying to get that picture perfect clear sight picture, those "moving" targets weren't shooting back and that explains why you're still around to post ;)

[|RD| Reaper]

I have probably fired more rounds in my life than most soldiers. The fact that you have made a big deal about "I'd like input only from people that actually ever fired a gun" kinda leads one to think you have never fired one. Personally, I keep both eyes open, and focus on the target. With a handgun, it is more in your hold than anything. You should be able to point a handgun at a target and not have to even look at the sights to correct. Getting a correct sight picture is something that should be 100% natural. If you can't do that, you need more practice. So sights should be slight "blurry" and target clear. Although slightly opaque sights would be a more "realistic" presentation.

I have a B-34 target right next to me, shot at 50yds, with 15 holes all connected, in the head. For those that don't know about targets, it is a reduced B-27 (which is a 50yd target) to be shot on 25yd ranges. It simulates firing at 50yds on smaller ranges. I shoot these at 50yds with a handgun, so it is effectively shooting at 100yd targets. I have no doubt that I can shoot a handgun more accurately than most rifle shooters, and I'm even better with a rifle.

http://i.imgur.com/rXQQBFa.jpg

These were after firing 250rds as fast as I could load mags, so gun was hot and accuracy was not.

[TangoVulture]

If those rounds shown on the link were fired at 250 yards unsupported with a handgun you should be very proud. That's still good shooting even for a rifle with iron sights. At that range the front post covers most, if not all, of the target with a rifle.

[|RD| Reaper]

That was after firing 250 rounds in roughly an hour. At 50yds the target looks like it is 100yds away. Anyone who shoots knows that as guns heat up the accuracy drops.

[TangoVulture]

Cold bore shot almost never hits the same point of aim as a barrel that's warmed up. Metal + Increased heat = movement of that metal. Some new cryogenicaly treated barrels with melonite bore coatings still warp a tiny bit. Out to 250 yards I feel it's mostly the fact that you need support.

Actualy, 250 yard shots like those with a handgun are downright miraculous.
I can hold my own out to 50 yards with a well set up Sig, but 250 yards is hard to believe.