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it heavy depends on the Char and Build I plan to use.
Items that I use quite often in multiple Builds:
Mask of Madness - ~high Stat Boni over the Run Duration
Blood Catcher - great Healing Source + DMG Bonus
Blood-Soaked Shirt - DMG Bonus > Healing Effect
Pace Setter - +Attack Speed on Full HP
Hunting Gloves - +Multistrike
The Rings are varying the most:
Holy Relic - for the Powerup Drops on Full HP
--- unequipping and reequipping the MoM for 1 Second
Wooden Ring - Crit Heavy Builds
Iron Ring - slight Boost in Base DMG
Guiding Star - Movement/Attack Speed
Cheers!
Wind Crown (for Attack Speed builds) / Mask of Madness (for Multistrikes)
Blood Catcher
Blood Soaked Shirt (for damage+regen) / Defiant Plate (for survivability+regen) / Blazing Shell (for fire based builds)
Pace Setter
Quickhand Gloves (for Attack Speed builds) / Hunting Gloves (for Multistrike) / Longfinger Gloves (paired with Blazing Shell for fire based builds)
For the rings i mostly use 4:
Wooden Ring (for upping Crit Chance) / Copper Ring (getting juicy Crits) / Guiding Star (Attack Speed builds) / Ring of Fire (for, well, you guessed it, fire based builds)
u can build any character with the shield maiden's mark to be able to clear the screen with burn dmg and use no abilities or atks ; i would consider that pretty decent gear XD
but otherwise ya the meta is for the most part solved , the mask is arguably the best headgear by a large margin
imho we do have too many BiS items and there needs to be more variance and more valid strategies & use cases for the more niche gear , but that's a more complex discussion
Unquestionably. Only niche builds use other head pieces.
Mask of Madness will generate more attack speed % over the run than wind crown. Except that is will also give you multistrike and damage and it doesn't require you to kill things to get it. The only thing you sacrifice is the early game attack speed. Which, frankly, is no sacrifice at all.
You can also swap your MoM out towards the end of the run if you are lucky enough to get a headpiece from a chest. It applies the bonus to the player, so you can take it off without worry.
To respond to the OP....
Context: I am an ultra late game player. Every run I do has a dedicated build. I don't do casual runs. Please keep this in mind when reading my list.
It's ranked in order of how much i use them, not how strong they are.
* No contest. Nothing else compares.
Niche use items: Ruby Circlet (Burn Builds), Gorgon's Mask (Dedicated Item Build), Helmet/Hood (*some* Scars Builds), War Horns (Fragile Builds)
Actually useless: Wind Crown, Thunder Crown
* Easy healing and some +dmg. Fits into almost any build.
2. Shepard's Boon
* If you use this in combination with a MoM (Degeneration) and Astro Orbs, you can get insane stats. It isn't as much healing as the blood catcher but it still has a good amount of regen and it serves FAR more uses than the BC. The upgrades can give you more regen, or if you are on Sage, a MASSIVE +dmg bonus.
3. Scars of Toil
* This is incredibly powerful if you have access to +HP traits. The upgraded +HP version is an easy choice, but the true value is grabbing the -HP upgrade which is a MONSTER increase in DPS but only if you have enough +HP elsewhere to make it good.
4. Maiden's Tear
* If you are doing a force dependant build this is the only choice. Assuming you have good enough movement not to get hit.
Niche use items: Elemental Resonator (for funsies only. shepards boon/mom combo will generate more stacks than this), Gatherer's Charm/Warrior's Fervor (Movespeed Builds)
Actually useless: Collar of Confidence, Duellist's Spark, Jade Amulet
* The +HP from this, in combination with MoM (Conversion) is stronger than blood soaked
Blood soaked shirt for damage output. You have to be able to get the upgraded MoM within the first 2 champion drops though (I reset a lot to ensure this happens).
2. Defiant Plate
* The defense bonus and regen from being hit make this is a very solid choice for weak early builds. I often sacrifice everything in order to get the best late-game build, that means my early game is ROUGH, especially on Sage. So I wear this a lot to get through it. The force bonus is nice too. It gives the bonus def/regen on MoM (normal/conversion) ticks, so it's very easy to get value.
3. Blazing Shell
* This has massive early game damage output. I wear this when doing weak early game builds that I know I can bring online quickly. Unlike Defiant Plate, you ride a razor edge with it. Your end-game build must come online before you give up too much HP and die. (To get value out of this you need to get hit by an enemy to trigger the retaliation effect, the tick effect is too weak. If you wore it just for the tick effect some other piece would be better instead.)
4. Blood-soaked Shirt
* For everything else I use this. Easy healing, small bonus damage.
Niche use items: Broker's Cape (Effect Builds)
Actually useless: Hunter's Garb, Shadow Cloak
* If you want damage output, and you can get it from crits (you can always get damage output from crits), this is the only choice.
2. Guiding Star
* If I'm doing a build that needs +MS and I can get use out of +atk speed then I will take this. I don't use it as much now that Hailstorm got nerfed though.
3. Iron Ring + Holy Relic
* Weak early game builds, esp Sage, can do great things with this. Holy Relic for healing, and Iron Ring in combination with Phantom Needles (or some other fast-but-weak ability as secondary skill) is very strong. You only use this combo if the early game is especially rough and the gain from using #1 is minimal. Swap both out later if you can.
4. Demonic Band + Necromancer's Clutch
* Same reason to use this as #2, but I pick these if summons have more value or I need an even bigger dps output early.
Niche use items: Elemental Rings (for when you need to convert your main weapon's element), Pest Ring (Effect Builds).
Actually useless: Echoing Band, Seal of Rebirth
* No contest. You can heal on demand (or not) and you get bonus attack speed at max health.
2. though 7. Nothing... that's just how much of a gap there is between Pace Setter and every other choice.
8. Firewalker Boots
* If you have abilities that benefit from bonus movepseed (Hailstorm, Astro Orb, Summons) these are the only choice. Though with the introduction of Lands and their base movespeed traits, this isn't as good.
9. Berserker Boots
* If you plan on doing a build where you won't be max HP and attack speed is needed, these are the only choice. I hate them though. The fall-off after you stop moving is so fast. That req needs to be dropped entirely.
Niche use items: Plated Boots (Def/Block Builds), Runner Shoes, Elven Slippers*
Actually useless: Electrostatic Treads, Elven Slippers*, Bogged Boots, Spike Boots
*Has exactly two uses. A Shield Maiden, shield bash buff build (why are you doing this though?). You're going for a 0 dmg run (but movespeed often still better anyway).
* Multistrike is such a rare trait. Bringing it with you is almost always the right choice if your build has a use for it.
2. Invoker's Grasp
* If you use summons these are the only choice. Additionally, even if your build doesn't use summons (to generate end-game damage) using these in combination with MoM Degeneration + Shepard's Boon + Astro Orbs is still stronger than Quickhand/Hunting. Obviously, more criteria to make it work though.
3. Longfinger Gloves
* If you are using Blazing Shell to get a build going these are a strong choice. That's it. That's all they're good for. Yet they make #3 all-the-same because that's just how strong it is.
4. Sparking Tips
* If doing a burn build these are the only choice. (They have +50% burn chance. We don't care about the dmg-on-phys-hit)
Niche use items: Thornfists, Quickhand Gloves, Fencer Gauntlets*
Actually useless: Unholy Touch, Spellcaster Gloves, Fencer Gauntlets*
*Has exactly two uses. Same as Elven Slippers.
On the topic of Spellcaster Gloves. These are always bad. I know this contradicts commonly held thoughts in the community but...
If you have a build that benefits from attack speed, Quickhand is better.
If you have a build that benefits from multistrike, Hunting is better.
If you have summons (anywhere), Invoker's is better.
There literally isn't a single situation where Spellcaster Gloves are the best choice, yes, even on Sage.
well said , agreed
It lasts 15 seconds, so you have roughly a 50% buff, and if you can find the uncommon necklace, it becomes a 67% buff.
Isn't berserker boots better than pace setter? I can usually accumulate enough move speed that the buff becomes better than pace setter's 20%. I also pretty much never stand still anyway.
And I assume by your judgement that dmg up is useless compared to atk speed up, which is why you find spellcaster gloves useless on sage?
Lastly, would I assume correct that you would prioritize multistrike over atk speed?
It's a fine combo if you have a reason to need the healing. Otherwise it's very underwhelming. Blood Catcher to replace WF will net you the same bonus damage, and it will also heal you for way more than HR.
This means you are basically trading the entire ring slot for an average of +50% attack speed. This isn't a bad trade. I would totally consider doing this except for one thing:
Consistency....
(remember the context for my post, this is not applicable to the casual/normal player)
If a wave reaches the spawn cap then it stops spawning mobs for you to kill. Failing to force additional spawns during a run is a massive waste because you can never catch up. Once it fails to spawn something for you, that's it, -1 mob forever. This is because it always spawns at a set rate. You now simply have less to kill. This means that your absolute first priority is making sure this never happens (or happens as little as possible). So...
1. If you are getting solid clear speed (never hitting spawn cap) when the combo isn't active, then you don't need it in the first place and the bonus you get while active is pointless.
2. If you are only getting solid clear speed while it's active, then you've failed at your #1 priority and the combo is pointless.
Hopefully it's clear now that one of these scenarios must always be true. It doesn't matter which one, you should be able to find an overall improvement by swapping the items out for something that gives consistency.
Yes. They give more overall attack speed (usually). However, it's minimal at best and you don't actually get it until late in the run (Pace Setter gives you the bonus right from the start, so your starting power is much higher). So I prefer to take the free movespeed bonus early on and the healing on demand. For a few % attack speed, it's really nice to have them instead, esp the early movespeed.
Well, obviously not **useless** but, yes, close enough to it. Overall damage output can be roughly represented by DMG * ATK SPEED * MULTISTRIKE. We gotta do some maths to demonstrate a trend...
Let's take Sorceress (we all love this character right?): 100 dmg, 0.75/s atk speed, 5 multistrike. (we'll ignore chaining)
Let's take two examples...
1. You are starting with base shrine bonuses. (+35% dmg, +20% atk speed, +20% multistrike)
2. You are lv50 with basic bonuses and item bonuses (+50% dmg, +35% atk speed, +30% multistrike from basic) (+50% dmg - blood catcher, +25% dmg - shirt, let's be real it never maxes, +20% atk speed - pace setter)
No Gloves:
1. 100+35% * 0.75+20% * 5+20% = 135 * 0.9 * 6 = 729
2. 100+(35+50+50+25)% * 0.75+(20+35+20)% * 5+(20+30)% = 260 * 1.31 * 7.5 = 2,555
Spellcaster Gloves:
1. 100+(35+66)% * 0.75+20% * 5+20% = 201 * 0.9 * 6 = 1,085
2. 100+(160+66)% * 0.75+75% * 5+50% = 326 * 1.31 * 7.5 = 3,203
Quickhand Gloves:
1. 100+35% * 0.75+(20+30)% * 5+20% = 135 * 1.13 * 6 = 915
2. 100+160% * 0.75+(75+30)% * 5+50% = 260 * 1.54 * 7.5 = 3,003
Spellcaster Gloves are 16% >> 6% better than Quickhand from lv0 to lv50.
Hunting Gloves:
1. 100+35% * 0.75+20% * 5+(20+20)% = 135 * 0.9 * 7 = 851
2. 100+160% * 0.75+75% * 5+(50+20)% = 260 * 1.31 * 8.5 = 2,895
Spellcaster Gloves are 22% >> 9% better than Hunting from lv0 to lv50.
In the space of 50 levels the gap between Spellcaster and the other gloves closed significantly. We can see that Hunting gloves had the largest improvement, obviously. A few more levels and traits and they overtake Spellcaster.
It's a very simple example, but it tells us that the longer the run goes on the less and less valuable Spellcaster Gloves (+dmg%) are. Once you add in bonuses from abilities (which are mostly +dmg%) this difference just moves drastically in favour of the other gloves.
It isn't that Spellcaster Gloves are bad, it's just that for someone like me, who is playing for end game clear speed, they just aren't as good as the other two.
Obviously, it all depends on your build... I just haven't found one yet where the Spellcasters were better.
Errr. Yes, but depends what I'm playing. As a general rule... yeah it's better.
Honestly, so much depends on your build. I really don't feel like I'm doing this justice. There are exemptions and missing information in so much of what I've said, it's hard to feel like I've covered everything without writing a PhD thesis about it.
I'll also add that doing all this maths forced me to acknowledge that the difference (between the gloves) is a lot smaller than I thought it was.
I have a general concern about dps but not enough to reset-runs-until-I-get-the-right-uncommons about it.
Your posts are very informative and contradicts my preconceived notions about what's best for dps, without ever thinking about the numbers behind it.
Basically, what I'm saying is multistrike > atk spd > dmg up. It's general enough to apply to enough cases for casual trysofts like me. So this means I should reverb the 3 multistrike traits, right? /s
100% no. lol.
There will be **something** in your build way more valuable than this.
e.g. Think Cleric with Archer mark. Once you take the +0.15/s (x2) trait from Archer Weap Prof IV: It's going to instantly kill everything in range (assuming you continue to pickup normal damage bonuses ofc). So you would reverb Purification (As it happens you reverb this twice. @5 and @40) for the extra range (the extra area is nice, but not the reason you take the trait).
e.g. Think the same Cleric example. It won't kill everything instantly within range with only one +0.15/s trait. With two of them (+0.30/s) it will. You wouldn't know this immediately, but after playing with it a couple of times hopefully you would notice. So you would reverb the +0.15/s.
e.g. Let's say you have Astro Orbs, Meteor Strike and Flame Strike
This isn't a great example, because obviously you would find something MS related to reverb, but let's pretend it isn't as strong as it is.
Multistrike: Good for AO and great for MS, but does nothing to FS.
Damage: Fair-good for all of them.
Attack speed: Good on MS, kinda useless on FS, and literally useless on AO.
The bonus damage looks to be the best overall because it affects everything decently. However, factoring in range (MS will hit stuff first. AO second. FS last.) we can see that multistrike is actually going to give you the best results. This is because it is better for AO and MS which hit enemies sooner.
How much weighting do you apply to range? The ideal answer is **maths**. The generalised answer is: Just give **some** thought to how range impacts what each ability is contributing and go with whatever you come up with.
5a. Your reverbs can't be used linearly. You should have planned ahead. Or rather... your build would have been better off if you had planned ahead. (It's ok to just take whatever and have fun.)
e.g. Cleric example again (I'm quite proud of myself for finding an example that covers everything repeatedly)
* You only reverb Purification because you "already" reverb'd the +0.15/s trait. However, you had to plan ahead to know this was going to happen. If you waited to 40 to reverb +0.15/s and then follow these general steps then you would either have reverb'd something else already to "try and instantly kill everything within range". Or, you would now have reverbs sitting in your pocket that are kinda useless because you really want that +range, but it's gone. Only by thinking ahead can you reverb things in advance.
5b. Your build is sub optimal. Very sub optimal. If you are selecting a non-ability, non-main weapon trait to reverb then something has gone wrong (ok not all the time but as a general rule). Your abilities are probably competing against each other (imagine taking phantom needles and buffing it, only to then take meteor which out-ranges it) or they're competing with your main weapon etc. Go back to basics, your selections need work. (Your reverb choice doesn't matter if your general ability selection makes no sense)
Notes:
Notice how it's likely that you go from step 1 to 2 or 3 and hopefully back then back to 1. This is the healthy process to find the best traits to reverb because you are rechecking your steps. If you suddenly find that after returning to step 1 you select a different ability, then chances are you need to rework your ability selection (don't take competing traits) or you need to plan ahead as per 5a.
Don't take abilities that will, later, eclipse others - this happens often with Sage. I will routinely take a second ability right at the start, that deals 90% of my damage for sometimes half the run, but I invest nothing in it (e.g. if i take radiant aura i actually oblivion it twice so it disappears and stays at lv1 forever) because I know that the main ability I selected will be all my damage once it comes online - planning ahead.
Another small essay, mbmb. I don't know why but i feel compelled to try my best to give high quality information to people that actually want to learn. You are really refreshing from all the other people I see from blaming the character or devs for why they suck.
Often I would go into the wiki and look at the character/mark traits and circle which one I want to pick and which ones I want to memory and which ones I want to reverb. It works out well enough that I can do agony 5 on any map.
But lately I've been reverbing the eth shift traits for 200% atk spd. Butt I understand that you're saying this could be wasted dps as there's probably something better to pick based on spawn rate. Buttt honestly I just wanna play for fun, not necessarily squeezing out every drop of dps.
If anything, I wish the game would let you pause on the trait selection screen so that you know what your current stats are. This goes double if you have to decide on base vs bonus stat... with no numbers to go with. Or at least the game could tell you what the relative increase is. Example:
100 dmg + 100% bonus = 200 atk
A: +15 base = 115 dmg + 100% bonus = 230 atk
B: 20% bonus = 100 dmg + 120% bonus = 220 atk
The game could just say +15 base (+30 atk) or 20% bonus (+20 atk) in trait selection.
This is one thing that another game, Rogue Genesia, does very well.
Or hell just get rid of 'base' stat altogether.
This is a valid issue. There is no reason why we shouldn't be allowed to open the character screen and look at our stats, then return to the trait menu.
Come, set some high scores with us :P
https://steamcommunity.com/app/2218750/discussions/5/4036977429236245180/