Sage - Spectral Fists / Consecutive Punches and ability modifiers

[Lunar Umbra]

There are some interesting interactions with Sage for MainWeapon/PrimaryAbility and how the +/- Traits work. This is a theory I tried out for a scenario of selecting only Spectral Fists as the single ability and building from it with the Mark of Knowledge. The first ability upgrade is Consecutive Punches to observe these interactions.

The Sage does NOT attack (auto or manual) even though the Primary ability is the main weapon and affected by % "Main Weapon" modifiers. Something I noticed for "Spellcaster Gloves" the bonus damage stays at its max once it winds up and never resets; so its a permanent 66.6% bonus to Ability damage. Rings that modify main weapon damage type do NOT affect the primary ability for the Sage main weapon.

A side note it seems "Base" main weapon modifiers do not work, only the % types; like the Archer +0.15/s Base Attacks provided no change from my observation. The Archer multistrike modifier is fun, with nearly four right and four left punches flying out every second. Attack speed modifiers from traits Ethereal Shift A (Melee) and Ethereal Shift B (Magic) help get that result for Spectral Fists, another reasoning behind a single ability Sage play scenario.

Now as to the interaction with traits; the Proficient Stance "Concentration" line with the positive/negative bonus counter play. Once you have Consecutive Punches, observe the Primary ability it actually remains unaffected by the negative portion of those traits. Such as negative attack speed or negative multistrike do not decrease the modified value. Its most noticeable when doubling the first rank with a potion, that should result in two times -25% attack speed, but Spectral Fists remains unaffected.

Theoretically it then becomes possible to use the Concentration traits as your primary source of modifying the Spectral Fist damage and have no negative consequences. Then mix your favorite Main Weapon modifiers from different Marks for interesting play scenarios.

This a fairly brief observation. I am not sure if this is the expected functionality of Sage or if other Heroes using Mark of Knowledge would work in a similar manner.

[ZeppMan217]

Spellcaster Gloves has to be a bug or an oversight, mostly in regards to the fact that Sage can't actually disable his main ability.

[Kaivo]

Another thing to consider with Spectral Fists on Sage is that the Spectral Fist 'Adaption' traits still apply and add their percentage of main weapon stat bonuses on top of the ability already getting those bonuses thanks to Sage. IE by default as Sage you're getting 100% of main weapon stats applied - take one Adaption trait you are now getting a total 120% and so on.

Its a bit odd to keep track of, because those extra bonuses from main weapon stats thanks to Adaption will simply be listed as being from "Spectral Fist traits" on the tooltip. Adaption also did not appear to apply its additional percentage of 'base' main weapon bonuses like Quickdraw and Barrage IV, or at least I couldn't find anything in the tooltips about it - its possible it still did though. Didn't do the math to see.

[🌺💗Tazzamorous💗🌺]

Just want to clarify some things Lunar in case others think this information applies to all abilities.

Originally posted by Lunar Umbra:

Rings that modify main weapon damage type do NOT affect the primary ability for the Sage main weapon.

They do, you just have to re-equip them on entry to the map. However, they don't pass on effects to any summon abilities (e.g. Spectral Fists).

Originally posted by Lunar Umbra:

...it seems "Base" main weapon modifiers do not work

They do for most abilities, but Spectral Fists is an example where they don't.

[Lunar Umbra]

Originally posted by Tazzunda:

...
They do, you just have to re-equip them on entry to the map. However, they don't pass on effects to any summon abilities (e.g. Spectral Fists).

They do for most abilities, but Spectral Fists is an example where they don't.

Interesting, so certain modifiers don't affect the Summons. I did recently notice other abilities are affected by the negative modifiers of the traits. I will tinker to see if Spectral Fists is unique due to its Consecutive Punches upgrade unlocking attack speed / multistrike while remaining unaffected by the negative modifiers. Spirit Warrior would probably be the one to try out in that regard as a comparison.

Originally posted by Kaivo:

Another thing to consider with Spectral Fists on Sage is that the Spectral Fist 'Adaption' traits still apply and add their percentage of main weapon stat bonuses on top of the ability already getting those bonuses thanks to Sage. IE by default as Sage you're getting 100% of main weapon stats applied - take one Adaption trait you are now getting a total 120% and so on...

So, its potential that (x5) Adaption would result in 200% Main Weapon modifiers affecting Ability, essentially doubling the modifiers chosen. The Sage seems to have quite a variety of ways to figure out min/maxing modifier based play styles.