Tried to Like this Game

[Trashbag]

I've played a lot of Bullet Heaven games. I tried this one a few times. I like the enemy variety and how it's meaningful to the combat, and it did seem very difficult. Seems like there are some places where you just hit a wall until you get a few points into movespeed - maybe regen, since the game tends to kill you with a thousand cuts.

But I put in some time and upgrades to make it to the 30 minute mark, killed the Lich, and survived to the last second, only to encounter a final boss. His patterns were easy enough to dodge - except for one homing skull with a countdown, not sure what that was about - but I still had 300 health and all his other attacks were easy enough to dodge.

Then the countdown hit 0. Instant kill.

I made a lot of money that run, so I put some points into movespeed. Figured I could outrun it. I also got some more regen and played another 30 minutes, making it back to him with maxed health at 860.

You can't dodge the skull, as far as I can tell. Another instant kill at 860 health.

The final boss is a 40-second dps check. I had a good run with solid damage and I got him to half-health by the end of the countdown.

♥♥♥♥ this game. I quit.

[charliefigurefantasy]

They already changed this boss in the beta

Lord of Pain
Death timer has been removed.
The Lord of Pain will now get stronger over time.
Lord of Pain HP have been reduced a bit.
Adding a mechanic to ease the Lord of Pain fight.

[Pisaro]

Originally posted by Trashbag:

I've played a lot of Bullet Heaven games. I tried this one a few times. I like the enemy variety and how it's meaningful to the combat, and it did seem very difficult. Seems like there are some places where you just hit a wall until you get a few points into movespeed - maybe regen, since the game tends to kill you with a thousand cuts.

But I put in some time and upgrades to make it to the 30 minute mark, killed the Lich, and survived to the last second, only to encounter a final boss. His patterns were easy enough to dodge - except for one homing skull with a countdown, not sure what that was about - but I still had 300 health and all his other attacks were easy enough to dodge.

Then the countdown hit 0. Instant kill.

I made a lot of money that run, so I put some points into movespeed. Figured I could outrun it. I also got some more regen and played another 30 minutes, making it back to him with maxed health at 860.

You can't dodge the skull, as far as I can tell. Another instant kill at 860 health.

The final boss is a 40-second dps check. I had a good run with solid damage and I got him to half-health by the end of the countdown.

♥♥♥♥ this game. I quit.

Because youre dps is to low and you dying you quit the game? Man, wtf is wrong with "gamers" today.

[Trashbag]

Originally posted by Pisaro27:

Originally posted by Trashbag:

I've played a lot of Bullet Heaven games. I tried this one a few times. I like the enemy variety and how it's meaningful to the combat, and it did seem very difficult. Seems like there are some places where you just hit a wall until you get a few points into movespeed - maybe regen, since the game tends to kill you with a thousand cuts.

But I put in some time and upgrades to make it to the 30 minute mark, killed the Lich, and survived to the last second, only to encounter a final boss. His patterns were easy enough to dodge - except for one homing skull with a countdown, not sure what that was about - but I still had 300 health and all his other attacks were easy enough to dodge.

Then the countdown hit 0. Instant kill.

I made a lot of money that run, so I put some points into movespeed. Figured I could outrun it. I also got some more regen and played another 30 minutes, making it back to him with maxed health at 860.

You can't dodge the skull, as far as I can tell. Another instant kill at 860 health.

The final boss is a 40-second dps check. I had a good run with solid damage and I got him to half-health by the end of the countdown.

♥♥♥♥ this game. I quit.

Because youre dps is to low and you dying you quit the game? Man, wtf is wrong with "gamers" today.

Yes, if you don't enjoy a game you quit it. It's a very simple concept, actually.

[Pisaro]

Originally posted by Trashbag:

Originally posted by Pisaro27:

Because youre dps is to low and you dying you quit the game? Man, wtf is wrong with "gamers" today.

Yes, if you don't enjoy a game you quit it. It's a very simple concept, actually.

And thats what i mean: because youre to weak you quit the game. That is in fact casual...

[Lieutenant Dan]

So you got DPS checked by the last boss, failed to beat him in time, and decided to go again and build max health/regen.

smart

[Trashbag]

Originally posted by Pisaro27:

Originally posted by Trashbag:

Yes, if you don't enjoy a game you quit it. It's a very simple concept, actually.

And thats what i mean: because youre to weak you quit the game. That is in fact casual...

Yeah it takes real pro gamer skill to grind the game for hours and build damage at the shrine so you have access to enough damage to kill him in under 40 seconds. Real rival to Ultrakill here. With the skill expression.

The game WAS fun when the enemies and bosses challenged your positioning in interesting ways. The final boss even looked pretty fun too for the 40 seconds I got to fight him. But a raw DPS check - and one so high that you effectively need to build EXCLUSIVELY for damage - reduces all that positioning down to nothing since it doesn't matter how much health you manage to save for the final boss, as well as negating the value of any upgrades that aren't expressly damage related.

And apparently the dev agrees.

Originally posted by charliefigurefantasy:

They already changed this boss in the beta

Lord of Pain
Death timer has been removed.
The Lord of Pain will now get stronger over time.
Lord of Pain HP have been reduced a bit.
Adding a mechanic to ease the Lord of Pain fight.

[Trashbag]

Originally posted by Pickleman:

So you got DPS checked by the last boss, failed to beat him in time, and decided to go again and build max health/regen.

smart

You got me. It sure was silly of me to have breezed through the waves all the way up to the final boss, see myself only get him down to half health before dying to a delayed attack, and assume that the game might want me to do something other than reach borderline unattainable levels of dps within 40 seconds. What a fool I was!

[Trashbag]

Honestly I wouldn't even mind if every attack the boss threw at you instant-killed you after the 40 seconds.

It'd still be kinda bs because it still completely invalidates the defensive upgrades and the health you saved up to this point, but it at least lets you demonstrate that you understand the boss's patterns enough to survive.

I got goaded into playing more of the game, refunded all my stat points and put them all into damage, and then spent every upgrade for my next two attempts picking up EVERY POSSIBLE UPGRADE that improved my dps. Damage, attack speed, crit chance/damage. I prioritized crits since the damage bonus would be more normalized against a tanky boss and improve my dps significantly faster. I only ever took defensive upgrades when I was FORCED to. Made it to the final boss and optimized my damage as much as possible (always stayed within striking distance of needles, circled him counter-clockwise to maximize the # of hits I got with Astronomer Orbs). I got him to just under half-health.

But I also got rolls on equipment that didn't really improve my dps. Noob mistake - you're supposed to get good RNG, not bad!

So I went back, managed to pick up crit ring and necromancer hood. Repeated the optimization. 1/3 health.

So I guess next time when I'm aiming to win, my strategy will be to cross my fingers and pray that I also find the armor that raises your damage with missing health and maybe that will be enough to kill. I'm also missing the last upgrade tier in damage - rookie mistake, not having enough gold to afford maxed damage as early as humanly possible.

[flamedance58]

I think perhaps some don't realize you're not expected to complete an entire level very soon. I know there's ppl who have gotten perfect drops and rolls and such and done it for most ppl this game will take quite a few tries to get there. Much like Vampire Survivor the bosses can be very challenging and takes time to level up , figure out what works, and then slowly working up your gear towards the class you picked.

I agree the timer and the boss of that level is a bit BS but it is being adjusted.

If you still don't enjoy the game then I hope you find something you do.
Just remember that posting like you did will almost always be taken as someone throwing a tantrum and you'll get all the trolls and similar responses so just a note for the future.

[Trashbag]

Originally posted by flamedance58:

I think perhaps some don't realize you're not expected to complete an entire level very soon. I know there's ppl who have gotten perfect drops and rolls and such and done it for most ppl this game will take quite a few tries to get there. Much like Vampire Survivor the bosses can be very challenging and takes time to level up , figure out what works, and then slowly working up your gear towards the class you picked.

I agree the timer and the boss of that level is a bit BS but it is being adjusted.

If you still don't enjoy the game then I hope you find something you do.
Just remember that posting like you did will almost always be taken as someone throwing a tantrum and you'll get all the trolls and similar responses so just a note for the future.

I'm beginning to get the sense of that. And I was definitely mad at the time of posting. Like I said, I WANTED to like the game. The boss just felt like a slap in the face at the time, though.

I do think I like Vampire Survivors and its Red Death "boss." Until you get way deeper into the game, you aren't even sure that it CAN be killed. And when it does kill you, that counts as a win. Once you do know how to beat it, the method is kind of repetitive, but the first kill was immensely satisfying.

(Frankly, though, I prefer something more mechanically involved. Like what they got in Nordic Ashes or Holocure.)

Here, the game presents the final boss as very much killable, but stuffs you with that timer. It feels more like the game's saying "sorry, you shoulda built more damage. You don't get to win."

I do like that it's being adjusted, too. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind if the boss is a hard wall for beginners, but it would definitely need to be telegraphed better. I'll explore the game more and see if I can't rekindle what I have enjoyed about it in the meantime, maybe.

[flamedance58]

I mean the telegraphing is from being completely stomped into the ground by it or having your soul ripped after the time imo.

I feel this game is more akin to 20 Minutes Till Dawn. That game had less enemies but they were tougher and the bosses were significant and came at timers and were trickier.

[Trashbag]

Originally posted by flamedance58:

I mean the telegraphing is from being completely stomped into the ground by it or having your soul ripped after the time imo.

I feel this game is more akin to 20 Minutes Till Dawn. That game had less enemies but they were tougher and the bosses were significant and came at timers and were trickier.

The fact the game still gives you 40 seconds instead of killing you outright is what makes it seem like it's supposed to be doable in the first place tbh.

On top of that, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna body him with the Cleric tomorrow. He's like...custom-built for wrecking his ♥♥♥♥, it seems. I was using the Swordsman before this, because I wanted to do a complete run with each class, but now I just want the satisfaction after all this.

2000 gold.

[Twenty Two]

You can easily kill him in under 15 seconds with Modified Lightning Strike, attack speed, crit. chance and damage.

[B the Self]

the death mark could make sense on the second or third boss
but on this first one? giving the middle finger to the player? cmon..

glad its gonna change its a cheap way to just kill you , make the boss harder or have 3-4 revives or add extra boss middle of fight but that was not the way to do it

[Trashbag]

Originally posted by Twenty Two:

You can easily kill him in under 15 seconds with Modified Lightning Strike, attack speed, crit. chance and damage.

I've literally taken strike and maxed it almost every time I've gone in, I have no idea what you're talking about.

I did only take the modded one last run, but I saw similar results.

It was definitely a good pick, with its high damage and insane crit, along with not having to worry about positioning, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that it's the only thing you'd need to outdps Lord of Pain.