Not sure why people are bashing on the swordman

[Teleadan]

I'm pretty ♥♥♥♥ at the game and don't have everything unlocked, but the swordsman has most consistently been the most busted of all the characters. I saw someone mention that the cleric is just a better swordsman, but that's just not true.

Stacking Critical Hit chance and damage easily had me hitting for crits over 1k most of the time. Range and cone meant I was wiping out a quarter of the screen, whichever direction I face.

Then paired with the flamethrower upgrade and the light aura as my only two abilities, it felt so broken. Needs the attack speed crown to really make the best out of it.

The swordsman doesn't split its damage when it targets lots of enemies like the cleric does. His survivability is also insane, with the 0.2 health regen and strong health upgrades (70).

Swordsman is the only character I've managed to get past 30 mins on any map. I've done it on all 3 maps with swordsman. I've also beaten one of the past 30 minute bosses using him.

Without more achievements, I can't see any other class coming close to this one, at least for me.

[Ulyaoth]

He is a jack of all trades, but a good one.
I still play him often and make stupid things with him, since the last update with potions, you can make him a brutal killing machine without any abilitys.

Compared to other chars, he might fall off, but he is not bad for the first char to get the hang of the game, nor is he terrible in endgame.

[RedRune]

Originally posted by Teleadan:

I saw someone mention that the cleric is just a better swordsman, but that's just not true.

On first glance, he is outperformed by the cleric, especially at low levels. The cleric starts with more damage (666, i believe?), has strong defense and very good hp regeneration traits. That's stuff that's usually reserved for melee classes.

However, the cleric's a slow hitter, has less hp, let's not talk about crit chance and crit damage and - as far as i remember - has a magic main attack.
That's where the swordsman is overall better.

I like both classes, but if i had to choose a favorite ... swordsman by a tiny margin. Although Mr. 666-cleric has a nice design (which i love, but his attack sound annoys me)!

[(ง ͡ʘ ͜ʖ ͡ʘ)งBonesMcSpook]

Its because people dont understand different methods of scaling.
They play swordsman first before obtaining more power and forever think the swordsman is inferior.

[Halfshell]

Ranger pops off early and stays relevant. I think Cleric is a weaker Swordsman tho.

[Teleadan]

Originally posted by Feuertatze:

Originally posted by Teleadan:

I saw someone mention that the cleric is just a better swordsman, but that's just not true.

On first glance, he is outperformed by the cleric, especially at low levels. The cleric starts with more damage (666, i believe?), has strong defense and very good hp regeneration traits. That's stuff that's usually reserved for melee classes.

However, the cleric's a slow hitter, has less hp, let's not talk about crit chance and crit damage and - as far as i remember - has a magic main attack.
That's where the swordsman is overall better.

I like both classes, but if i had to choose a favorite ... swordsman by a tiny margin. Although Mr. 666-cleric has a nice design (which i love, but his attack sound annoys me)!

---
Yeah the worst thing about the cleric upgrades is he becomes worse with range, whereas the swordsman becomes better with range. Cleric also can't crit, so you're reliant on the damage mods to show up, and hope they aren't tied to range. 20% damage 50% range is awful because when you start to get surrounded, it nukes your damage.

[Teleadan]

Originally posted by (ง ͡ʘ ͜ʖ ͡ʘ)งBonesMcSpook:

Its because people dont understand different methods of scaling.
They play swordsman first before obtaining more power and forever think the swordsman is inferior.

Now that I'm thinking about it, how does cleric scale? The crit on warrior scales them up a fair deal, but what causes cleric to scale? Just damage? Perhaps I haven't unlocked the proper cleric scaling upgrades.

[Nyxtus]

Cleric seems horrible. Damage is distributed to every enemy hit so late game, with how many enemies there are/range upgrades you just tickle them.

Only just got shieldmaiden and have no idea what is going on. The rest are great.

[Halfshell]

When I played Cleric I took things like the fire ring and just used him to proc a bunch of DoTs and that status that makes them weak to DoTs. Seemed ok but not amazing or anything.

Originally posted by Nyxtus:

Only just got shieldmaiden and have no idea what is going on. The rest are great.

Edit: Shieldmaiden has high crit damage should make her good with spellcasting gloves. Actually I'm not sure if thats just her mace or not hard to tell.

[Ulyaoth]

Every char has unique ways to make him busted, if you use the Memory/Double Potion.
Combined with the right abilitys you can make really stupid things.

I think it comes down to personal taste.
My all time favorite is the Warlock, followed by the Extermiantor.
But this is simply because I like the theme and style.

Still I would say every char has its place, strenght and weakness.

[Teleadan]

I searched for tier list just now and the thread that comes up from Mic01851165, both the OP and the replies rate cleric highly and swordsman as the worst or almost the worst.

Judging by how far I've gotten

S Tier: Swordsman
A Tier: Exterminator
B Tier: Archer
C Tier: Warlock, Cleric
Undecided due to low playtime: Shieldmaiden, Sorcerer

Warlock and cleric both require specific builds and upgrades to make good. I've had some broken runs compared with the other runs, but they are really determined by upgrades. All swordsman, exterminator and archer can do well without relying heavily on upgrades or items, even the base items do well for them.

[Ulyaoth]

Tier lists can be heavy missleading, if one gives to much about them.
Best way as always is to try it out and share experience with other people and theory craft fun stuff.

[Halfshell]

Originally posted by Teleadan:

Undecided due to low playtime: Shieldmaiden, Sorcerer

Sorc kinda feels like a worse Ranger so far I'm sure she needs something specific to be good.

Also whats with the class tier 4s that have 1 be something like "physical damage +30%" or "mainweapon damage +30%" isn't the sword attack physical or am I missing something?

[Teleadan]

Originally posted by Halfshell:

Originally posted by Teleadan:

Undecided due to low playtime: Shieldmaiden, Sorcerer

Sorc kinda feels like a worse Ranger so far I'm sure she needs something specific to be good.

Also whats with the class tier 4s that have 1 be something like "physical damage +30%" or "mainweapon damage +30%" isn't the sword attack physical or am I missing something?

I think the cleric counts as magic damage whereas the archer and swordman have physical attacks.

I played for 5 mins with the sorc but had to leave, but it felt like it could be better than ranger if the lightning forks? That would be a good upgrade, but I don't know if that's how the class works.

With the archer, I don't know if cone is a good upgrade. He fires 2 arrows to start, so does the cone just widen the spread or does it increase the hitbox of the spread. If it just widens the spread its bad, but if it widens the hitbox it would be great. That's the main issue with the archer, unless you've got the orbs or radiant aura, it struggles when it gets surrounded. 20+ minutes becomes really hard because of this.

[Ulyaoth]

Originally posted by Halfshell:

Also whats with the class tier 4s that have 1 be something like "physical damage +30%" or "mainweapon damage +30%" isn't the sword attack physical or am I missing something?

Since char sheets are buggy sometimes:
If you pick the +30% physical, some abilitys get a boost with the Tag Physical.
This applys to Ring Blades, Phantom Needles, Astronomer's Orbs and Clay Golem.
I think the main weapon get excluded, but dont know for sure.
It wouldnt make sense to choose between 30% dmg main weapon and 30% abilitys + main wepaon.
At the point where I pick one of those, I dont pay attention anymore to damage numbers.

[Teleadan]

Originally posted by Ulyaoth:

Originally posted by Halfshell:

Also whats with the class tier 4s that have 1 be something like "physical damage +30%" or "mainweapon damage +30%" isn't the sword attack physical or am I missing something?

Since char sheets are buggy sometimes:
If you pick the +30% physical, some abilitys get a boost with the Tag Physical.
This applys to Ring Blades, Phantom Needles, Astronomer's Orbs and Clay Golem.
I think the main weapon get excluded, but dont know for sure.
It wouldnt make sense to choose between 30% dmg main weapon and 30% abilitys + main wepaon.
At the point where I pick one of those, I dont pay attention anymore to damage numbers.

One of the really confusing upgrades on cleric usually happens when you get something like:

+166 base damage
+0.4 attack

I always pick the base damage as it means the cleric reduction in damage to lots of enemies minimises greatly, but I don't really understand what 0.4 attack does.