Pitch mod, why re-tune to e flat?

[Sofa King Awesome]

I was playing with the tone designer and noticed there is a pitch shifter that lets me sound like I detuned my guitar to e flat even though I'm in e standard. Why can't I have the option of using that to play songs rather than having to tune every time I switch key? I know it won't work for drop d or open g, but it would make playing a more enjoyable experience. I wouldn't have to switch to a different guitar because my favorite guitar has it's action set perfect for e, passable for drop d, but is too low for e flat and d standard.

I should mention that I do this with a physical pedal, and it works as expected. Still, the software is capable of doing this but doesn't give me the option.

[Paladin]

I am going to guess that the RS License has a requirment to reproduce the song in the key it was written in. I also know there is enough problems with computers/power/configuration etc... that adding more features will more than likely cause more problems than not. For example since RS 2014 came out I still can use my mac wireless mouse with the game. It points but it doesn't click.

[Sofa King Awesome]

Modding the pitch of my guitar wouldn't change the pitch of the song, and Rocksmith already allows me to pitch shift and play bass songs with a regular guitar. It seems like an overlooked option, especially for anyone with a double-locking tremolo.

[Preacher403]

Probably because if you were to use that option, you usually can still hear your guitar in the original tuning acoustically and it sounds HORRIBLE.

I've got a Line 6 Variax where I can have the guitar do the tuning changes in the output, but I can't block out enough acoustic sound at normal volumes to avoid the nastiness. So, unfortunately, I don't use the Variax for Rocksmith much.

[Paladin]

Preacher, I was wondering how a variax would work with RS. I have a helix and PC+ that I use for quite a bit of work. They have integrated the Variax to work well with this environment. The newest release of the Helix software will allow individual level control of the variax and the variax to direclty control snap-shots on the Helix. It's all pretty awesome. I just am not sold on the variax for alternate tuning for gigging.

What's you thoughts on gig worthy and build quality of the variax

[Sofa King Awesome]

If anyone is interested, I use a relatively cheap Behringer pitch shifter with headphones for Rocksmith. As Preacher said, it sounds weird if you don't have isolating headphones, but it makes it so much easier to go through songs with different tunings. More playing, less fuss. Plus my strings don't flop around when I go to play CCR.

[Preacher403]

Originally posted by Paladin:

Preacher, I was wondering how a variax would work with RS. I have a helix and PC+ that I use for quite a bit of work. They have integrated the Variax to work well with this environment. The newest release of the Helix software will allow individual level control of the variax and the variax to direclty control snap-shots on the Helix. It's all pretty awesome. I just am not sold on the variax for alternate tuning for gigging.

What's you thoughts on gig worthy and build quality of the variax

Well, I haven't had any issues with mine (Variax Standard), using it with an HD500X pedal or just by itself. I've used the alternate tuning feature at a local jam night, works great for that, can do a "capo 2 dreadnought acoustic" model followed by a "drop D Les Paul" with just a knob twist or two. Can also be good for songs where you switch between acoustic and electric parts in the middle.

It's just not so good at low volume situations like RS with alternate tunings.

[grimlog]

I'm pretty sure this is because of the signal flow in the SW. Guitar -> Note-Detection -> Effects/Modeling -> Output. The Note-Detection gets the unprocessed signal, before Pitch-Shift and other effects are applied.

[Preacher403]

Originally posted by grimlog:

I'm pretty sure this is because of the signal flow in the SW. Guitar -> Note-Detection -> Effects/Modeling -> Output. The Note-Detection gets the unprocessed signal, before Pitch-Shift and other effects are applied.

As Sofa King pointed out, they do "detune" the guitar signal for playing bass with a guitar, so there's no technical reason they couldn't do what the OP suggested, unless it degrades note detection too much.

[grimlog]

Originally posted by Preacher403:

Originally posted by grimlog:

I'm pretty sure this is because of the signal flow in the SW. Guitar -> Note-Detection -> Effects/Modeling -> Output. The Note-Detection gets the unprocessed signal, before Pitch-Shift and other effects are applied.

As Sofa King pointed out, they do "detune" the guitar signal for playing bass with a guitar, so there's no technical reason they couldn't do what the OP suggested, unless it degrades note detection too much.

They detune it to *sound* like a bass. Note detection still detects the note with the unprocessed signal. Of course it would be possible to implement a pitch-shift at the beginning of the signal-chain. But the would increase latency before note-detection happens. Something one wants to avoid at all costs.

[Preacher403]

Originally posted by grimlog:

Originally posted by Preacher403:

As Sofa King pointed out, they do "detune" the guitar signal for playing bass with a guitar, so there's no technical reason they couldn't do what the OP suggested, unless it degrades note detection too much.

They detune it to *sound* like a bass. Note detection still detects the note with the unprocessed signal. Of course it would be possible to implement a pitch-shift at the beginning of the signal-chain. But the would increase latency before note-detection happens. Something one wants to avoid at all costs.

Good point. Though that just means they could do the same thing with the alternate tunings, just not a full octave multiplier. But whatever, it's not like it's going to happen anyhow.

[Dark Nemesis V2]

It doesn't seem too hard, really, to "pitch-shift" the note detection, per se. In other words, if the game is asking for a G note in a D standard track, but you keep your in E standard, the game could shift the note detection algorithm upwards, i.e., look for an A note from the unprocessed signal.

Compare this to what was suggested earlier, where the game would pitch shift the signal before detecting notes from it.

Ultimately, though, the game is meant to teach players fundamentals of the guitar. It would be a nice convenience to add a built-in "retuner" or "autotuner" so that we could keep our guitars in one tuning, and I would be for it (I don't want to try and tune my guitar to the high tuning for the one Kinks song on there), but, somehow I don't think it fits the spirit of the game.

Also, a "retuner"/"autotuner"/"detuner" or whatever has its share of audio problems and solutions (like the strings making their own clashing sound with the modulated output, but inaudible with good headphones).

+1 for the suggestion though, and I'd love to see it included.

[grimlog]

Originally posted by Dark Nemesis V2:

It doesn't seem too hard, really, to "pitch-shift" the note detection, per se. In other words, if the game is asking for a G note in a D standard track, but you keep your in E standard, the game could shift the note detection algorithm upwards, i.e., look for an A note from the unprocessed signal.

Agreed. This would be a way to do it for practically free. Still needs to be implemented by someone though ;)