I don’t get the big deal with the PSN requirement.

[✪ 9 Gun Compartments]

I understand that it is frustrating to be locked out of legends because PSN is not available to your region but I imagine most of the people playing will be sticking to single player. I also see a lot of people concerned about the security which I agree is terrible but at the same time you could create a burner account for only the multiplayer. Well either away i am quite excited for the game to come out and I do hope that they remove the restriction eventually.

[Hanzo]

Originally posted by M.Spengler:

Some of you seem to be confused.

Ghost of Tsushima is a pure singleplayer game. After it´s sucess a singleplayer DLC was released and sold : Ikki island.

Then much larer after this a coop addon was released.
Owners of Ghost of Tsushima got and still get it for free.
If you don´t already own(ed) Ghost of Tsushima and want only play Legends, you could buy Legends as Standalone coop game for 19,99€.

The Director´s cut edition combined the singleplayer basegame with the singleplayer DLC and the free seperate coop addon. The PC port of this Edition is what we get.
A mandatory login is only needed to play the seperate coop game but optional for the overlay and the singleplayer game. We are speaking about two different games. One is singleplayer and the other is a free coop game.

It's Director's cut. So you, me or other people could decide what part of the game worth for them. Directors Cut includes all content including Iki and Legends. I don't care if it free or not because even free content creates additional value for customer and as I've mentioned above Legends bring more value to me.
Yes, Legends were free if you own GoT iirc. For Sony it made sense. Because Legends require ps+ and it have a price, which goes to sony pockets. So it isn't "completely" free.

[M.Spengler]

Originally posted by Hanzo:

Originally posted by M.Spengler:

Some of you seem to be confused.

Ghost of Tsushima is a pure singleplayer game. After it´s sucess a singleplayer DLC was released and sold : Ikki island.

Then much larer after this a coop addon was released.
Owners of Ghost of Tsushima got and still get it for free.
If you don´t already own(ed) Ghost of Tsushima and want only play Legends, you could buy Legends as Standalone coop game for 19,99€.

The Director´s cut edition combined the singleplayer basegame with the singleplayer DLC and the free seperate coop addon. The PC port of this Edition is what we get.
A mandatory login is only needed to play the seperate coop game but optional for the overlay and the singleplayer game. We are speaking about two different games. One is singleplayer and the other is a free coop game.

It's Director's cut. So you, me or other people could decide what part of the game worth for them. Directors Cut includes all content including Iki and Legends. I don't care if it free or not because even free content creates additional value for customer and as I've mentioned above Legends bring more value to me.
Yes, Legends were free if you own GoT iirc. For Sony it made sense. Because Legends require ps+ and it have a price, which goes to sony pockets. So it isn't "completely" free.

Ok less content and text this time :
You get Ghost of Tsushima + DLC - That´s what you pay for. They charge you for this and only this. As a cookie they gave the free coop addon with it.

If you choose for yourself to throw 60 bucks at them only to play the free part of this game, i wonder but it is your choice. The requirements for Legends are written on the storepage and you can choose to comply or to not comply.
All complainig people are trying to enforce a way they want it to be. It is what is is.

CPU too weak ? - Can´t play
GPU too weak ? - Can´t play
OS unsupported ? - Can´t play
PSN unavailable or unwanted ? - Can´t play

Can´t play = accept it and move on. Buy another game for your pleasure.

Sony can react in two ways :
(1) They modify the network to peer2peer or another connected server infrastructure
(2) They remove the game from unsupported coutries if this solution is cheaper then (1)

[shakeyourbunny]

Originally posted by M.Spengler:

All complainig people are trying to enforce a way they want it to be. It is what is is.

Rather blackmail with unsavory tactics or try doing the spoiled brat thing in hope if they cry loud enough, they get their wishes delivered on a silver platter for free.

I'm really tempted to discuss one of the things you listed here in more detail, but I don't want to be the ignition or the leverage point for these people here running around like headless, ignorant chicken.

[M.Spengler]

Originally posted by shakeyourbunny:

Originally posted by M.Spengler:

All complainig people are trying to enforce a way they want it to be. It is what is is.

Rather blackmail with unsavory tactics or try doing the spoiled brat thing in hope if they cry loud enough, they get their wishes delivered on a silver platter for free.

I'm really tempted to discuss one of the things you listed here in more detail, but I don't want to be the ignition or the leverage point for these people here running around like headless, ignorant chicken.

I guess Sony will remove the game in unsupported countries. They don´t offer their service in these countries because Sony decided their economy as not worth it.
If the enforced adaption can´t be done cheap they will just pull the plug in these stores.

[Hanzo]

Originally posted by M.Spengler:

Ok less content and text this time :
You get Ghost of Tsushima + DLC - That´s what you pay for. They charge you for this and only this. As a cookie they gave the free coop addon with it.

And if I like cookies?
https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP9000-PPSA02225_00-GHOSTDIRECTORPS5

Ghost of Tsushima DIRECTOR’S CUT
PS4

Ghost of Tsushima DIRECTOR’S CUT
Iki Island expansion
Legends online co-op mode
Digital mini art book
Director’s commentary
One Technique Point
Charm of Hachiman’s Favor
Hero of Tsushima Skin Set

It's shown on ps store page. As I said it's not a "free" cookie. You could considered as a "game-service" to increase number of people who will buy ps subscription. It's a part of ship, doesn't matter how much it costs. As you said above Legends worth $19.99 (could see them on the same page) if bought separately. So it's not "free"

Originally posted by M.Spengler:

If you choose for yourself to throw 60 bucks at them only to play the free part of this game, i wonder but it is your choice. The requirements for Legends are written on the storepage and you can choose to comply or to not comply.

Once again. It brings value doesn't matter if it's free or not. And it's not free. It's part of value of Director's cut.

Originally posted by M.Spengler:

CPU too weak ? - Can´t play
GPU too weak ? - Can´t play
OS unsupported ? - Can´t play
PSN unavailable or unwanted ? - Can´t play

Can´t play = accept it and move on. Buy another game for your pleasure.

Sony can react in two ways :
(1) They modify the network to peer2peer or another connected server infrastructure
(2) They remove the game from unsupported coutries if this solution is cheaper then (1)

As the end-game user I'm interested that the game has as many players as possible. Why? Because more player base means more mods, more people who play online, more people to talk with, more people to share emotions.
If you imply "just don't play" you decrease game value and potential for yourself and people who will buy it.
sony could've done it much better
No psn link: singleplayer + legends (Steam users only)
psn link: singleplayer + legends (Steam + PS users)
In this case we could see all praising sony:
1. People who happy that game came to Steam
2. People who happy that there is crossplay even with linking
3. People who happy because of overlay
There would be little complaining and no current ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[shakeyourbunny]

I didn't mean that exactly, conducting business is always aiming for making at the end of the day a financial gain. That is the bottom line for every business and how they achieve that is within the legal national and international framework.

I deleted the whole paragraph, because this would be torn and picked apart by armchair lawyers and people who like to twist everything long enough until it fits their purposes.

[M.Spengler]

Hanzo :

Legends is free - They charge you for the standard edition and the ikki island.
If you already own Got you can download Legends free of charge.

All these are just put together in the director´s cut.

[M.Spengler]

We don´t know how deep the netcode is implemented to PSN. If it is too much time or work to switch to another network infrastructure like p2p or steam as example, then Sony will think of pulling the plug in unsupported countries because it is cheaper.

[shakeyourbunny]

Originally posted by Hanzo:

sony could've done it much better
No psn link: singleplayer + legends (Steam users only)
psn link: singleplayer + legends (Steam + PS users)
In this case we could see all praising sony:
1. People who happy that game came to Steam
2. People who happy that there is crossplay even with linking
3. People who happy because of overlay

I agree that they could have done better, but their main reason is that they want a pie of the PC gaming market and they observed that it is more profitable and easier to tap into Steam. So they don't have to provide infrastructure for the services Valve offers, but they also want to grow their own network in a meaningful way and have the final say regarding online gaming. There are also other advantages (not only financial) doing in this fashion.

There are not the only publisher which do that like this, like Microsoft or Epic. If I want to badmouth the latter ones, I could say that they are the most insidious of the bunch, because EOS (I know Epic Onlines Launcher is a different thing, but a client to EOS) burrows not only itself into Steam games, but also with their cross-play implementation, they try to catch as many players on Nintendo Network, Playstation Network and Microsoft XBox into their services. Other publishers also do that, like Paradox or Capcom, but only with their own games.

I'd wish Sony would offer that you would like, but the cold business reality is account numbers for a given service is a thing and Sony would take gladly all Steam users into its PSN fold with automatic passwordless synchronization, but Valve would never agree to such a deal (and all these PC players I think would commit burning down of Valve if that would happen).

Originally posted by Hanzo:

There would be little complaining and no current ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

As already said, from a business perspective that does not make any sense and the possibility of having a second coming of that desaster is low. For Ghost of Tsushima and the other PC ports, Sony did its homework properly, unlike that other game where its developer will face retribution from Sony.

[shakeyourbunny]

Originally posted by shakeyourbunny:

As already said, from a business perspective that does not make any sense and the possibility of having a second coming of that desaster is low. For Ghost of Tsushima and the other PC ports, Sony did its homework properly, unlike that other game where its developer will face retribution from Sony.

Some addendum:
main culprit was Arrowhead itself, where its CEO decided to make it optional, shortly after it started with mandatory PSN link.

the other thing is, that Sony itself botched that on their own pages, so they had to give in.

With Ghost of Tsushima, this scenario is not even likely as:
- the game itself is primarily a single-player game (PSN not required unless you want the trophies and use the overlay)
- it is already on store pages and now also other media (news outlets, etc) clear communicated that if you want to play the DLC Legends mode with buddies, you have to login into PSN
- steam achievements are still given in parallel to PSN trophies (if desired)

[Hanzo]

Originally posted by M.Spengler:

Hanzo :

Legends is free - They charge you for the standard edition and the ikki island.
If you already own Got you can download Legends free of charge.

All these are just put together in the director´s cut.

Once again. I don't care if it's free or not. It part of the pack so it brings value

Originally posted by M.Spengler:

We don´t know how deep the netcode is implemented to PSN. If it is too much time or work to switch to another network infrastructure like p2p or steam as example, then Sony will think of pulling the plug in unsupported countries because it is cheaper.

It could be. I'm not sure how did they implemented Returnal (even if devs were different). But they could've used the same approach and adding just another layer for psn link.

[SG-17]

Helldivers 1 was PlayStations first ever Steam release, so the sequel was likely always intended for PC release and had integration into Steam's online features done long before Sony ever decided to bring PSN to PC. GoT was developed as a PlayStation exclusive, and ported as part of Sony's push to establish its ecosystem on PC. It's quite likely it doesn't have a similar Steam integration ready to go, and relies fully on PSN for user identification, friends lists, etc. Making PSN optional would then mean delaying the launch and reworking and testing these features, not to mention committing to doing this extra work for all future titles.

So if you want Sony First Party games on PC, beyond just Sony Published stuff like HD2, you are going to have to deal with PSN. Its kinda ridiculous that you don't.

[Hanzo]

Originally posted by shakeyourbunny:

I agree that they could have done better, but their main reason is that they want a pie of the PC gaming market and they observed that it is more profitable and easier to tap into Steam. So they don't have to provide infrastructure for the services Valve offers, but they also want to grow their own network in a meaningful way and have the final say regarding online gaming. There are also other advantages (not only financial) doing in this fashion.

There are not the only publisher which do that like this, like Microsoft or Epic. If I want to badmouth the latter ones, I could say that they are the most insidious of the bunch, because EOS (I know Epic Onlines Launcher is a different thing, but a client to EOS) burrows not only itself into Steam games, but also with their cross-play implementation, they try to catch as many players on Nintendo Network, Playstation Network and Microsoft XBox into their services. Other publishers also do that, like Paradox or Capcom, but only with their own games.

I'd wish Sony would offer that you would like, but the cold business reality is account numbers for a given service is a thing and Sony would take gladly all Steam users into its PSN fold with automatic passwordless synchronization, but Valve would never agree to such a deal (and all these PC players I think would commit burning down of Valve if that would happen).

Epic is in the totally different level. I think there've been rumors that epic launcher mines your Steam data. I don't use epic even if I'm interested in few exclusives from ps, like Kingdom Hearts.
Your idea is pretty valid, though sony's green knows no bounds. It's a business as you say, but as a customer I don't like this and would try to push it back as lot of others pushed back for closing PS3/Vita store. So if you allow sony to do what it wants just with perks for their pockets disregarding consumers they will make players suffer even more.

[Lake333GLD]

Originally posted by M.Spengler:

Originally posted by Hanzo:

It's Director's cut. So you, me or other people could decide what part of the game worth for them. Directors Cut includes all content including Iki and Legends. I don't care if it free or not because even free content creates additional value for customer and as I've mentioned above Legends bring more value to me.
Yes, Legends were free if you own GoT iirc. For Sony it made sense. Because Legends require ps+ and it have a price, which goes to sony pockets. So it isn't "completely" free.

Ok less content and text this time :
You get Ghost of Tsushima + DLC - That´s what you pay for. They charge you for this and only this. As a cookie they gave the free coop addon with it.

If you choose for yourself to throw 60 bucks at them only to play the free part of this game, i wonder but it is your choice. The requirements for Legends are written on the storepage and you can choose to comply or to not comply.
All complainig people are trying to enforce a way they want it to be. It is what is is.

CPU too weak ? - Can´t play
GPU too weak ? - Can´t play
OS unsupported ? - Can´t play
PSN unavailable or unwanted ? - Can´t play

Can´t play = accept it and move on. Buy another game for your pleasure.

Sony can react in two ways :
(1) They modify the network to peer2peer or another connected server infrastructure
(2) They remove the game from unsupported coutries if this solution is cheaper then (1)

When I read this post, I see only one way: Change a planet of living.^_^. Tatooine is what the doctor recommend, LOL.

[M.Spengler]

Originally posted by Lake333GLD:

Originally posted by M.Spengler:

Ok less content and text this time :
You get Ghost of Tsushima + DLC - That´s what you pay for. They charge you for this and only this. As a cookie they gave the free coop addon with it.

If you choose for yourself to throw 60 bucks at them only to play the free part of this game, i wonder but it is your choice. The requirements for Legends are written on the storepage and you can choose to comply or to not comply.
All complainig people are trying to enforce a way they want it to be. It is what is is.

CPU too weak ? - Can´t play
GPU too weak ? - Can´t play
OS unsupported ? - Can´t play
PSN unavailable or unwanted ? - Can´t play

Can´t play = accept it and move on. Buy another game for your pleasure.

Sony can react in two ways :
(1) They modify the network to peer2peer or another connected server infrastructure
(2) They remove the game from unsupported coutries if this solution is cheaper then (1)

When I read this post, I see only one way: Change a planet of living.^_^. Tatooine is what the doctor recommend, LOL.

I see two ways - Buy if you meet the requirements of a game or don´t if you don´t meet the requirements of a game.

We are talking about a consumer product here not famine or war.