Steam for Linux

Steam for Linux

phschm 2012 年 11 月 22 日 下午 1:19
64bit nomultilib gentoo
The survey was seriously lacking in detail, I filled it as fairly as I could. It seems 64bits with multilib/wine support is being assumed, but what about nomultilib builds, that is, with IA32_EMULATION off when compiling the kernel? By the way, the point of an open system is to be able to customize everything, mine is very lean, how will dependencies be sorted and how self sufficient the games/programs will be (standalone?)?
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正在显示第 31 - 41 条,共 41 条留言
76561198076225808 2012 年 11 月 30 日 上午 3:27 
引用自 t.jp
The reason why people bring this up in the first place is, because you can have everything in 64-Bit if you want and I don't think that e.g GNU/nano or vim really need to be 64 Bit. Linux users are just not used to using multilib as Windows users are, because it wasn't needed until now.

That's not true is it? They haven't just changed ubuntu, fedora and debian to support 32 bit libraries :)
blackout24 2012 年 11 月 30 日 上午 5:00 
I have no clue what distros other than Arch do. I never needed any lib32s. In fact by default the multilib repo is deactivated in /etc/pacman.conf. If you want you can have a pure 64 bit system. The only 32 bit only programs I know are Skype ( Microsoft...) and Windows Programs through wine (Microsoft again). Since I don't need any of them it is the first time I need multilib to start a program. So it definately is not very common to not have both this is why threads like this pop up in the first place.
AlenL 2012 年 11 月 30 日 上午 8:53 
Can one of you 64-bit addicts please explain to us retrograded pragmatics how come the recommended version for Ubuntu desktop is still 32 bit? :P
ThOR27 2012 年 11 月 30 日 上午 9:07 
引用自 AlenL
Can one of you 64-bit addicts please explain to us retrograded pragmatics how come the recommended version for Ubuntu desktop is still 32 bit? :P

Damn I'm not a 64-bits addict but you already answer your own question: It's because they are retrograded pragmatics :P
76561198076225808 2012 年 11 月 30 日 上午 9:10 
引用自 t.jp
In fact by default the multilib repo is deactivated in /etc/pacman.conf.

Right, but you understand that activating it, (or it being deactivated), implies that it exists to be activated, and this predates Valve looking at linux by a long way.

These people didn't create multilib just in case Valve came along with Steam did they? Ergo, just because you didn't use it or know about it, it doesn't mean it didn't exist and / or wasn't used.

The only 32 bit only programs I know are Skype ( Microsoft...) and Windows Programs

Well, actually, pretty much every linux program you have installed has a 32 bit version doesn't it? :-) Things exist even though you don't have them :-) In this case, 32 bit linux software existed first.
最后由 axeolin 编辑于; 2012 年 11 月 30 日 上午 9:12
ThOR27 2012 年 11 月 30 日 上午 9:16 
Hey people is already pretty good to us that steam is on Linux, 64 bits can be added later. They don't have time to do everything at once. I prefer having a stable 32 bits steam with many 32bits games, than to have a unstable 64 bits steam with just a couple of 64 bits games.

So stop winning! Things will come, we just have 25 games today, some of them already have a 64 bits version on steam, as AlenL said, when time comes we will see more games running under 64 bits.
DaVince 2012 年 11 月 30 日 上午 9:22 
引用自 AlenL
Can one of you 64-bit addicts please explain to us retrograded pragmatics how come the recommended version for Ubuntu desktop is still 32 bit? :P
Probably to simplify things for new users, who won't have to mess with any multilib stuff. It's recommended from the "just works" perspective. I'm actually running a 32-bit version for exactly that reason, and noticing no difference in performance but an improvement in "getting this or that 32-bit program to work". Even though it really shouldn't be that way nowadays.
最后由 DaVince 编辑于; 2012 年 11 月 30 日 上午 9:22
blackout24 2012 年 11 月 30 日 上午 10:08 
I'd say one reason is using wine is easier for beginners on 32 bit, because they won't have to do "WINEARCH=win32 WINEPREFIX=~/.wine winecfg " to get a 32 Bit wine enviroment on their 64 Bit system which they need because all Windows programs and games they'll likely want to use on Linux are 32 bit only. Also 2 years ago the 64 Bit flashplugin wasn't that great and rather buggy (no wonder ... it's and Adobe product). This would have made a bad impression on people switching from Windows. Now it's still on their website because no one bothered to remove it and the wine thing still exists. Not saying that 32 Bit only steam is generally bad it is simply not common to support only one architecture on linux. This is simply a fact. If steam would also ship a 64 bit version at least I could watch the game trailers, because it won't recognize my 64 bit flashplugin with the 32 bit version. ;-)
phschm 2012 年 12 月 6 日 下午 6:47 
Should have mentioned this earlier, but those wanting more details can get an idea from the "MIPS N32 ABI Handbook", easy to find. It is a similar case from the MIPS world back in the nineties, if I am not mistaken.
AlenL 2012 年 12 月 7 日 上午 1:53 
I think pages should be taken from the Windows book here. Win64 transition is almost totally transparent to the users. After initial driver problems in WinXP 64 were fixed, (and if we forget the Vista disaster, but that's for different reasons), most Win7 installs are x64 and no one even knows. As it is on Linux a lot of software is broken just because someone thought that installing multilib is "bloat".

That's (a) hypocrisy because those same systems have myriads of (potentially useful, but largely unneeded) cruft like "cal", "csslint", "calibrate_ppa" (yes, I just typed "c" and tab and picked 3, you can find tons if you want) installed by default and (b) totally unjustified because 64bit systems are not going to be installed on older hardware so it is reasonable to expect that there will be enough disk space for this. It would be easier to have those <1% users who really need the extra space taken my multilib uninstall it, than have most of 99% jump through hoops to fix weird issues with 32bit apps.

I hope that this total lack of pragmatism will get fixed in the Linux mentality ASAP, or games and other commercial software will not happen. Then we can all go back to Windows8. May God help us all.
phschm 2012 年 12 月 7 日 下午 2:37 
What? You mean using normal x86 on a x86_64 linux environment with multilib has any issues? That was never the point. Maybe using win32 applications over wine at a native x86_64 system yes, even on native plain x86 systems for that matter, notably if they require some windows atrocity like .net, but wine is another issue altogether.

引用自 AlenL
have myriads of (potentially useful, but largely unneeded) cruft like "cal", "csslint", "calibrate_ppa" (yes, I just typed "c" and tab and picked 3, you can find tons if you want) installed by default

If you mean ready at "work out of the box" like distros, or livecds, by default then yes, of course. If you mean at all that is gnu linux, not by far. And careful with those "rare", they dont have to be used directly.

引用自 AlenL
totally unjustified because 64bit systems are not going to be installed on older hardware

If you mean older as in not supporting x86_64 then yes. But then newer games will not run as well. Adobe flash for instance requires SSE2 for some time already (since april at least for sure). Otherwise, linux is a perfectly viable way to put new life on older systems, specially low profile distros or spins, and, except for Ubuntu and Puppy, their preferred version is x86_64. Which is actually a way to better utilize their resources (in doubt look at my previous posts, specially the handbook, and online benchmarks), exception for total memory usage (and some cases like where on die cache is the bottleneck or heavy pointer usage scenarios), where nomultilib would help (not for the exceptions, but x32 would).

Actually, linux can work all over spark, power, arm, ia64, alpha, mips, etc with open source programs being ported all over the place very fast. A look at the top500 lists would show how diverse our options should be were it a free market (free as in market economy). Binding everyting to one architecture is orrendously anti innovative (users have trouble moving forward as their old investiments would not work or do so poorly and chip designers can't stray or legacy applications would run poorly if at all) and counter productive (analogy: philips can be unscrewed with a slotted one, but it is not ideal). That is however, another topic.
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发帖日期: 2012 年 11 月 22 日 下午 1:19
回复数: 41