Wayland!

[UraniumDeer]

I can't help it. I'm a great fan of the concept 'perfect frames'.

It'd make sense for Valve to wait until proprietary drivers has the necessary support, and until the major DE's has Wayland fully integrated, and maybe even until the Wayland/Mir battle has played out. That's probably the better side of a year (though we are seeing initial support from some DE's (KDE 4.11, RebeccaBlackOS, Arch, etc.), but Valve isn't the company to idly sit by. So though it's optimistic - I'm hopeful! :)
However I have to ask:
- Any announcements or rumors regarding support of a new display-server.
- Does anyone have an idea as to how hard/easy it is to make the compatibility-layer, used for porting Steam games, compatible with Wayland?

[matt]

AbartigerNorbert の投稿を引用：

Wayland has no competiton. What do you think Mir and Wayland are competing for?

Ofc MIR is competition, because it's a threat for nonbuntu distros when it comes to future market share (Ubuntu will only grow). Show me a nonbuntu preinstalled system which has more then maybe 5 units sold. When Ubuntu gets some more attention in the world thanks to Ubuntu Touch, other Linux system will still be at 1%, propably till end of time... unless they start taking Canonical aproach with very focused style (Unity), marketing (Ubuntu Brand) and (soon thanks to MIR) system core.

As a user I do not care how it will be, I just want stable, fast and good looking (pixel perfect design which in Linux world only Unity or heavly modded Gnome Shell on top of Ubuntu has - ubuntu font rendering is superior to any other Linux) system which works on machine I choose or build. More users Ubuntu has, more other distros are becoming second class citizens, that difference will only grow (which is sad).

[UnkendTech]

gutigen o) の投稿を引用：

AbartigerNorbert の投稿を引用：

Hehe, yeah like they'll ever get distro specific code upstreamed! :D

Tbh I don't care which graphics server my system is going to run, I just want everything to work like now (tho I expect performance boost from both MIR and Wayland vs Xorg). I keep switching every few months between Ubuntu Gnome and standard Ubuntu, so I just want my games to work flawlessly on one of those.

As a side note, it's great that Wayland has competition now, it will benefit both parties :)

Second side note, fragmentation of Linux may be it's strongest feature, since there can't be fast progress in monopoly (if there was like one distro etc).

Wayland has no competition there is no way Mir can even keep up to the standard development level of Wayland if any one use's Mir thats there lost (note all the Main Tool Kit's Support Wayland only)

[UnkendTech]

gutigen o) の投稿を引用：

AbartigerNorbert の投稿を引用：

Wayland has no competiton. What do you think Mir and Wayland are competing for?

Ofc MIR is competition, because it's a threat for nonbuntu distros when it comes to future market share (Ubuntu will only grow). Show me a nonbuntu preinstalled system which has more then maybe 5 units sold. When Ubuntu gets some more attention in the world thanks to Ubuntu Touch, other Linux system will still be at 1%, propably till end of time... unless they start taking Canonical aproach with very focused style (Unity), marketing (Ubuntu Brand) and (soon thanks to MIR) system core.

As a user I do not care how it will be, I just want stable, fast and good looking (pixel perfect design which in Linux world only Unity or heavly modded Gnome Shell on top of Ubuntu has - ubuntu font rendering is superior to any other Linux) system which works on machine I choose or build. More users Ubuntu has, more other distros are becoming second class citizens, that difference will only grow (which is sad).

do you even know what font's Ubuntu is using? and, Linux Mint, Debian, all other main Linux's are sold preinstalled on hardware, it's just Ubuntu try's really hard for PR Ubuntu is the Kardashians of the Linux World

ohh and btw Wayland is Shipping this year. Mir will not ship tell next year in Ubuntu 14.10 what you will see is Xmir and it's just Xwayland any ways no point in using it at all
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQxMDA

ohh wait Gnome has 65% of it's app's working on Wayland..
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQwOTI

Mir can't even get Mesa Support
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQwODU

supertuxkart was running on Xwayland what 2 years ago
http://www.chaosreigns.com/wayland/demos/2012-05-03-xwayland.html

and on top of all that XMir is slower then Xorg and will use more power then Xorg
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_xmir_benchmark&num=1

ohh and here is a really nice blog on Mir by a real Developer
http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/26254.html

and to top it off Xmir will not even run on AMD or Nvidia Drivers but Xwayland will nice copy paste job there

[matt]

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

do you even know what font's Ubuntu is using? and, Linux Mint, Debian, all other main Linux's are sold preinstalled on hardware, it's just Ubuntu try's really hard for PR Ubuntu is the Kardashians of the Linux World

Font style and font rendering are two different things, do you even know what I'm talking about? Setup same font in same DE on Ubuntu and on Arch or Fedora at same machine and tell me that there is no difference :)

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

ohh and btw Wayland is Shipping this year. Mir will not ship tell next year in Ubuntu 14.10 what you will see is Xmir and it's just Xwayland any ways no point in using it at all
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQxMDA

[/quote]

Like it matters that Mir shipps after Wayland.

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

ohh wait Gnome has 65% of it's app's working on Wayland..
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQwOTI

Ubuntu popularity will bring more devs working on it (especially when Ubuntu Touch gets some market share), just a matter of time when Ubuntu become a serious competition for Android and OSX.

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

Mir can't even get Mesa Support
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQwODU

Who cares about mesa again? This is gaming forum, you do not play games on mesa unless you are blind.

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

supertuxkart was running on Xwayland what 2 years ago
http://www.chaosreigns.com/wayland/demos/2012-05-03-xwayland.html

Lol.

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

and on top of all that XMir is slower then Xorg and will use more power then Xorg
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_xmir_benchmark&num=1

First, Mir is still young, second sooner or later all Ubuntu apps will be ported to Mir.

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

ohh and here is a really nice blog on Mir by a real Developer
http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/26254.html

Who cares what he thinks? Canonical is making their own graphics server cause they want to have full control over development of Ubuntu Touch, they will propably fork everything except kernel sooner or later. Is it good? Time will tell, so far they are doing good job with Ubuntu and stuff around it.

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

and to top it off Xmir will not even run on AMD or Nvidia Drivers but Xwayland will nice copy paste job there

Nvidia is working on unified egl driver. AMD doesn't care about Linux anyway, don't buy their products :)
[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

I was going to edit this, but it looks cool lol :D

[Bestia]

AbartigerNorbert の投稿を引用：

gutigen o) の投稿を引用：

MIR Kick's ass even the Xorg server is going to turn into XMIR down the road

:)

Hehe, yeah like they'll ever get distro specific code upstreamed! :D

There is already a port of SDL to wayland. It will hopefully get improved even more and upstreamed soon. Here is the open source version of Doom3 runnig with this toolkit.
http://static.hackmii.com/dhewg/dhewm3_wl.webm

That alone would pretty much make porting of games almost a non-issue I think. The creator of SDL (slouken) is currently working for Valve.

It will be great when we finally get rid of all the X11 problems. No more getting stuck in limbo, when a fullscreen app changes resolution and crashes to desktop. Much better support for multiple monitor desktops. Much improved input handeling etc.

There is also already a port of SDL to Mir and as far as I see it's at the same level of completion as Wayland port (maybe even closer).

SDL Mir support[bazaar.launchpad.net]

dhewm 3 SDL[github.com]

Benkamin Franzke SDL Wayland[cgit.freedesktop.org]

Toolkits support for Wayland[wayland.freedesktop.org]

[UnkendTech]

gutigen o) の投稿を引用：

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

do you even know what font's Ubuntu is using? and, Linux Mint, Debian, all other main Linux's are sold preinstalled on hardware, it's just Ubuntu try's really hard for PR Ubuntu is the Kardashians of the Linux World

Font style and font rendering are two different things, do you even know what I'm talking about? Setup same font in same DE on Ubuntu and on Arch or Fedora at same machine and tell me that there is no difference :)

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

ohh and btw Wayland is Shipping this year. Mir will not ship tell next year in Ubuntu 14.10 what you will see is Xmir and it's just Xwayland any ways no point in using it at all
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQxMDA

Like it matters that Mir shipps after Wayland.

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

ohh wait Gnome has 65% of it's app's working on Wayland..
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQwOTI

Ubuntu popularity will bring more devs working on it (especially when Ubuntu Touch gets some market share), just a matter of time when Ubuntu become a serious competition for Android and OSX.

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

Mir can't even get Mesa Support
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQwODU

Who cares about mesa again? This is gaming forum, you do not play games on mesa unless you are blind.

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

supertuxkart was running on Xwayland what 2 years ago
http://www.chaosreigns.com/wayland/demos/2012-05-03-xwayland.html

Lol.

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

and on top of all that XMir is slower then Xorg and will use more power then Xorg
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_xmir_benchmark&num=1

First, Mir is still young, second sooner or later all Ubuntu apps will be ported to Mir.

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

ohh and here is a really nice blog on Mir by a real Developer
http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/26254.html

Who cares what he thinks? Canonical is making their own graphics server cause they want to have full control over development of Ubuntu Touch, they will propably fork everything except kernel sooner or later. Is it good? Time will tell, so far they are doing good job with Ubuntu and stuff around it.

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

and to top it off Xmir will not even run on AMD or Nvidia Drivers but Xwayland will nice copy paste job there

Nvidia is working on unified egl driver. AMD doesn't care about Linux anyway, don't buy their products :)
[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

I was going to edit this, but it looks cool lol :D [/quote]

Nvidia said it was going to make a EGL Driver around 1 to 3 years ago at a xorg developer's conference and, also Canonical is doing a bad job with Ubuntu that's why Linux Mint and openSUSE have been getting so many user's. Canonical just needs to drop all of it's Kardashians BS (btw marks the mom), and roll a Wayland DS, the funny part is Xmir depend's on Mesa and, Wayland, Mir is going to end up so far out of tree it's not funny costing them million's of dollars is a big RED Flag BO$$

hmm whats do we have here from 2009
http://www.khronos.org/registry/egl/extensions/NV/EGL_NV_native_query.txt

[blackout24]

If you think Ubuntu Fonts are special. That only means you don't know about Infinality Patchest for Freetyp 2. http://www.infinality.net/blog/infinality-freetype-patches/

[Bestia]

AbartigerNorbert の投稿を引用：

If you think Ubuntu Fonts are special. That only means you don't know about Infinality Patchest for Freetyp 2. http://www.infinality.net/blog/infinality-freetype-patches/

Ubuntu fonts look good by default. While Infinality is a thing that user has to add by himself in the distro like Fedora and others. I don't even think those look as good as Ubuntu fonts.

[blackout24]

Bestia の投稿を引用：

AbartigerNorbert の投稿を引用：

If you think Ubuntu Fonts are special. That only means you don't know about Infinality Patchest for Freetyp 2. http://www.infinality.net/blog/infinality-freetype-patches/

Ubuntu fonts look good by default. While Infinality is a thing that user has to add by himself in the distro like Fedora and others. I don't even think those look as good as Ubuntu fonts.

Ubuntu Fonts are also simply patched Freetype packages. You could make a distro that ships with Infinality patched Freetype. Or you can install Ubuntu Freetype on other distros. https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/freetype2-ubuntu/

[matt]

AbartigerNorbert の投稿を引用：

Ubuntu Fonts are also simply patched Freetype packages. You could make a distro that ships with Infinality patched Freetype. Or you can install Ubuntu Freetype on other distros. https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/freetype2-ubuntu/

So what? Ubuntu with Unity and it's font rendering has pixel perfect design by default, just like Android or OSX. No other distro has that without heavy tweaking. That is fact.

[UnkendTech]

gutigen o) の投稿を引用：

AbartigerNorbert の投稿を引用：

Ubuntu Fonts are also simply patched Freetype packages. You could make a distro that ships with Infinality patched Freetype. Or you can install Ubuntu Freetype on other distros. https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/freetype2-ubuntu/

So what? Ubuntu with Unity and it's font rendering has pixel perfect design by default, just like Android or OSX. No other distro has that without heavy tweaking. That is fact.

ohh no Mark has gotten to him too there is Only Ubuntu Unity and Ubuntu Unity Only

[matt]

Doc Holliday の投稿を引用：

gutigen o) の投稿を引用：

So what? Ubuntu with Unity and it's font rendering has pixel perfect design by default, just like Android or OSX. No other distro has that without heavy tweaking. That is fact.

ohh no Mark has gotten to him too there is Only Ubuntu Unity and Ubuntu Unity Only

That's why I use Gnome shell (after heavy tweaking ofc... default is just meh... ugly and unusable) :P

[Dolus]

Two-on-your-face の投稿を引用：

Unity looks ass. sorry but its bad. the ubuntu colour scheme is also dated and not nice.

TBH KDE kicks it hard. Customisation is there and its fun and easy to theme and add new activities and widgets. It works too, if it ever bugs out it always recovers and its rare for this to happen unless your really playing around a lot with widgets.

I agree about Ubuntu and Unity, they REALLY need to move away form that orange/purple gradient crap (I am actually missing the brown at this point).

[UnkendTech]

did any one see this over at phoronix is this really Wayland?
also it say it's going to be 3 times faster then QT and use 30% less memory then QT

http://youtu.be/fnp7Sca-lmY

http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?82451-E18-Wayland&p=343915&posted=1#post343915

[blackout24]

Yes E18, Gnome 3.10, KDE 4.12 all will have native support for wayland and its applications, while legacy apps will work through XWayland.