Ubuntu and its darn ZFS

[JanarLS]

On Ubuntu 20 LTS, at some point in time my brother has managed to turn on such thingy as ZFS and zSys.

ZFS did already prove its usefulness, as he messed up with the graphics-card driver upgrade. Very easy rollback.

But now he can not install things like 100gb+ GTA5 due to "insufficient disk space"

I know there are zfs contributors in here. Please do take into consideration, what's expressed in here, even if it sounds saltier than average.

In reality, there is room. I assume that free room could be increased by deleting older "snapshots" -- something yet to familiarise myself

I read that "zsys on ubuntu for the masses" is meant to be unnoticeable. I think it should have exceptions for cases like Steam and its humongous game libraries - at least in terms of masses.

FAQ for this seems reasonable as well - I see a lot of people all over the web, troubled by the same thing, I have not seen a fix (easy enough)

Any ideas for some kind of quick-fix. The guy does not know any English, and I can't help him in person, as we live in different countries currently.

I did set up the system as a single disk environment, for the ease of management -- in mine opinion zfs currently makes everything more complicated than using multiple physical drives. ZFS does the exact opposite, for what was desired from the system. I'm really irritated by that, there now is some random thing, which commanders and fiddles around my system a lot.

Reinstalling the whole thing without zfs seems easy-fix, as in a brute solution. But considering all the mess and works over a year isn't exactly appealing either: the PC is used as an office device, there's a server set up on there - it just doubles as a gaming console duo.

It does not settle me either, that the web is full-on recommendations for people to just turn zfs on - without explaining the downsides. This was the case with my brother. Of course, he wanted a more reliable and secure system. Neither he nor I have desired more and random complications in our lives.

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As really not interested in the micromanagement of the zfs, its partitions (fractured disk), and quotas -- a system that is supposed to be unnoticeable to the end-user. I rather rely on old-school backups and full system reinstalls. at least my disk isn't commandeered in an unpleasant manner by some soft I haven't asked for.

1: Is there a way to purge the zfs and its snapshots entirely -- somehow revert back to a single partition/quota system without a full-on reinstall of the entire system.

2: To blacklist the zfs to be denied to be installed on the system by accident, in case if a full reinstall is the only solution to get rid of it.

3: An oneliner, which makes mine steam to work again, as it did over a year, prior to the introduction of the current frustrating situation. I do not need "time machine for data" beyond last week, as otherwise the system runs just fine as it is. I'm not interested to memorise the whole manual about the zfs and its amazing features.

[Marlock]

i can imagine teething pains on Ubuntu's ZFS integration, but it's worth pointing out that Steam is known to not play 100% nice with other filesystems beyond ext4 (not even talking about NTFS, exFAT and other non-linux partitions)...

IIRC that includes but isn't limited to ZFS, for quite a while, and one of the classic issues is exactly what you mentioned

it's worth noting that common software shouldn't use low-level methods to handle storage, instead they should just trust the OS... and this issue is probably symptomatic of Steam using lower-level stuff than they probably should, thus either missing or reimplementing higher-level stuff in their own software

[JanarLS]

To be honest, I do not remember the disk format, it was my brother who installed it initially: I'd assume it to be the default, which it then should be ext4 (I remember the times when ext4 was new and problematic at times)
I guess, out of haste, I mixed up ZFS and zsys (there is such command in the terminal like `zfs`)

Anyhow, the point being, the symptom has appeared over half a year after system install, it gets a year in January. Everything worked fine so far. What I understand is that issue is then:
1. zsys instead of the steam
2. the way zsys handles quotas and backups:
* why do snapshot 100Gb game,
* why just ~160Gb for a whole home drive out of 1TB
- no wonder steam complains about lack of space: download+install+.....

One thinks that has deleted the game and gained some space: but in reality, it is still present in snapshots ← unwanted in the first place...
and quotas all messed up
`$ mount` gives an enormous list of [enter proper name] (mount points? I have a single disk system - or so I thought), throw into delisting each and every snap-app and their dependencies as well

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From a simple gamer perspective, without having delved into the matter at all:
separate drive or proper partition dedicated for steam upon installing the system in the first place?

https://didrocks.fr/2020/05/26/zfs-focus-on-ubuntu-20.04-lts-zsys-general-presentation/

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Anyhow, https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/using-zfs-snapshots-clones#2-using-snapshots seems to be, what I really needed (for the moment). I Deal with it when getting the chance...

As of now, I half-sleep already
Thanks for the reaction

[KrazyOne]

Part of the reason I prefer Debian as a base than Ubuntu. Question the logic on Canonical part rushing things along as if they are ARCH.

[JanarLS]

I loved Debian -- just realized that I haven't used one for about half a decade by now.
Heck was that one stable if properly configured.

Why Ubuntu (notice also, that LTS instead of most current one)
* it has much better support for my language than Debian has.
* much easier availability of drivers and apps (which are more current) -- from official repositories. 3rd party soft from source was way more prone to conflicts with one another.
* it is much easier to use for noobs and most regular desktop users, who manly want from it just browsing, office and entertainment media (music, videos, and games)
* Ubuntus restraining default GUI (gnome), so irritating for more advanced users, is highly useful in my case with the users I support -- much fewer chances to mess things up by them
* those users do have some specific requirements, which are way-way more demanding on Debian in so many various levels.

Why I myself use it:
* Just to be more aware of it.
* I usually have to support them blindly in the middle of the street over the phone. Using it provides me with visual memory for starters. A lot more gets memorized and knowledge remains in sync with what they see on their screens and how things behave. We all use the same versions.
* Most of the users, I support are either monolingual native language speakers, or we do not know the common foreign language: eg: Russian vs English
* Ubuntu simply provides a common base for us all much more easily.
* Correct if I'm wrong, but Debian itself is never designed for average home users. Ubuntu has.
* ....

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To be fair: Zsys and steam both do work, my experience with both is actually good.
The issue is rather specific, and I see it being introduced by zsys.

Thinking for "simple users", who have installed soft via the default settings, as well as a philosophy of simplicity (including maintainability): this kind of situation should be solved for noobs by devs, rather then by noobs, who quite probably are incapable of even figuring out the source of the cause. Particularly about half a year after the enablement of zsys being introduced into enpicklement. Those noobs, unable to find help, go for an OS hop (instead of a distro) with bad memories from experience. Ubuntu-desktop and Steam both target precisely those very same noobs as an audience.

[KrazyOne]

There is Linux Mint version of Debian Desktop. They been working on it for years now, soon to be 5th edition since bullseye Debian 11 has went live. You get more repository support out of the box with LMDE unlike Debian Stable.

Wasn't a knock on Ubuntu as much as it was knock on their developers pushing things out before they are ready. There are many reason for Ubuntu to drop Gnome, but finances are likely reason they haven't.

Yes in the past Debian wasn't new user friendly, but latest introduction has made installation and setup easier with a GUI. Now if they made website easier to find the Non Free ISO for Nvidia users to find, would make it more accessible, but web layout is bit hit and miss atm.

[Marlock]

LMDE is not recommended as a daily driver, it exists as an extensive proof-of-concept to ensure Linux Mint won't die off if something happpens with Ubuntu

Linux Mint Cinnamon, Mate and XFCE are all Ubuntu derivates, and I love them for noobs, but given OPs explanation points about why Ubuntu above I would not say it fits the rationale as a suitable substitute (unless his clients also jump to Mint)

[JanarLS]

Ok, you actually managed to inject curiosity into me...

LMDE: I remember giving it a spin when it started to give releases on Debian

I think mine last Debian was Debian 9 - shortly after it had become stable. Debian is from where I learned to love Linux, mine first was Lenny (testing) - which should say a lot. Possibly I still have the CD-s stored somewhere - a full set of among the latest stable Lenny release. It is another matter, should those still be in a working condition. Do I feel old now?

Kinda miss the KDE as well - certain apps rather than DE itself

Still: I also have to consider people I support and their needs, eg:

• availability of native language
  
• business degree requirements
  
• specific software - some of them unique within the country and sensible solely for the citizens. Those aren't available for all systems, quite many are closed source as well.
  
• something, like i3, while I may find enjoyment -- for them: forget that challenge. The more "kioskly" the DE is, the better: for them and for me in terms of robustness and maintainability and my nerves ;-)
  
  Anyhow, VM just finished the install...

[Enigmatic]

use XFS maybe
LMDE made me vomit. It stopped me from ever using Mint.

[KrazyOne]

LMDE 4 is fine, LMDE 5 will be better. Mint will be breaking away from Ubuntu if they keep pushing the snapd project. Inevitable outcome there.

Personal choices are that personal choices. I dislike Gnome as a Desktop Environment.

I understand that familiarity and helping others is part of your daily workflow. Cant do much about that if your clients are using Gnome as a main source of a DE.