Trouble installing Pop OS on laptop

[Ad Hominem]

Trying to install Pop OS on my ASUS FX505DY laptop. I created a USB boot drive with Rufus, and am able to boot into Pop OS where the installer comes up. I am able to select my language but when I select my keyboard layout (English > Default) it just freezes and completely stops moving. The rest of the demo mode is responsive and can open other programs within the USB boot, but the installer just stops.

Looking around, it seems like the next dialogue is supposed to be selecting a hard drive to install on, which is where it locks up. My only guess is that Pop OS is having trouble mounting (?) the NVMe hard drive to begin installing. The laptop came with Windows 10 and I used that to install chipset and other drivers as well as download and update to the latest BIOS.

I'm kinda at a loss. Anyone have any ideas?

[Marlock]

ASUS kind of f...d you on this one... they chose NVMe, usb3 controller, wifi and ethernet components with poor linux support.

To be precise, they just don't consider linux support when picking parts, and this time the russian roulette was cruel.

As time goes by the situation may improve (at least support for the NVMe drive).

Sources
https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/b39orv/ryzen_3550h_asus_tuf_gaming_fx505dy_do_i_need_to/
and
https://forum.artixlinux.org/index.php/topic,951.0.html

If you roll down the threads, you'll notice each person had a different issue and different solutions, but here is what you should definitely try (if not enough to fix it for you, look up for more on the threads, consider Pop OS an Ubuntu derivate):

- use this kernel boot parameter:

nvme_core.default_ps_max_latency_us=5500

obs: if you need help with that, ask again here, but in short you should press "e" when the stick's boot menu appears (to edit the boot entry temporarily) and add the code at the end (right before the ending quotation mark, using a space character to separate it from previous parameter)
AND/OR
- use a liveboot with linux kernel 5.0.4 or newer... Ubuntu 19.04 comes with it by default, not sure if current Pop OS already have it... the installed OS should have it too

- run the liveboot stick from an usb2 port (if available) instead of from usb3...

- have bios updated to version 306 or newer

- have an ethernet cable to your router on the ready, because the wifi chip ASUS chose needs proprietary firmware to work (some distros may bundle it by default, some don't bundle any closed source blob at all)... installing the 8821ce driver packages will fix it

- have patience with the ethernet... same reason as the wifi, but the kernel at least can use it with poor performance until you get the r8168 driver packages installed

[Zyro]

I would try another (modern) distribution, maybe Ubuntu 19.04.

[Ad Hominem]

Originally posted by Marlock:

ASUS kind of f...d you on this one... they chose NVMe, usb3 controller, wifi and ethernet components with poor linux support.

To be precise, they just don't consider linux support when picking parts, and this time the russian roulette was cruel.

As time goes by the situation may improve (at least support for the NVMe drive).

Sources
https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/b39orv/ryzen_3550h_asus_tuf_gaming_fx505dy_do_i_need_to/
and
https://forum.artixlinux.org/index.php/topic,951.0.html

If you roll down the threads, you'll notice each person had a different issue and different solutions, but here is what you should definitely try (if not enough to fix it for you, look up for more on the threads, consider Pop OS an Ubuntu derivate):

- use this kernel boot parameter:

nvme_core.default_ps_max_latency_us=5500

obs: if you need help with that, ask again here, but in short you should press "e" when the stick's boot menu appears (to edit the boot entry temporarily) and add the code at the end (right before the ending quotation mark, using a space character to separate it from previous parameter)
AND/OR
- use a liveboot with linux kernel 5.0.4 or newer... Ubuntu 19.04 comes with it by default, not sure if current Pop OS already have it... the installed OS should have it too

- run the liveboot stick from an usb2 port (if available) instead of from usb3...

- have bios updated to version 306 or newer

- have an ethernet cable to your router on the ready, because the wifi chip ASUS chose needs proprietary firmware to work (some distros may bundle it by default, some don't bundle any closed source blob at all)... installing the 8821ce driver packages will fix it

- have patience with the ethernet... same reason as the wifi, but the kernel at least can use it with poor performance until you get the r8168 driver packages installed

I really appreciate the in-depth reply. I didn't realize how borked the hardware was for linux, guess I should have done more research before hand. I just got excited when I saw an all AMD build for a good price.

I have tried Pop OS, Ubuntu and Manjaro so far to various degrees of failure. Pop OS was the one I got the farthest with actually booting into a desktop enviornment.

In the Pop OS loader I didn't see a grub menu with the option to press 'e' like in ubuntu but sure enough it brought up that parameter screen. Wasn't sure where to put the command but I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day because it seems to have done the trick. The installer moved past the spot I was stuck on, and is installing now. I forgot to move the USB to a 2.0 slot but it seems to have not mattered because the install finished and restarted into the OS.

I'm sure I'll have many more issues though, those posts do not give me high hopes for this endeavor.

Edit: Now I seem to be stuck on the "welcome" screen. I seem to recall reading I would need to enter that command every time or set up a script to do it automatically? Problem now is that I don't see any boot menu, it just boots right into Pop and the 'activities' thing in the top left isn't available. Try to ctrl alt T to open a terminal but it closes immediately. The system locks up after a minute in the desktop with that welcome screen. I wonder if I would have any luck if I put a different SATA SSD in to install it on.

[x_wing]

If it's only the DE that freezes, you can try using a virtual terminal (ctrl+alt+f1-f7) and setup on grub the kernel params that Marlock mentioned (this will make permanet the kernel args so you don't have to type them on each boot).

If you can't access any vt, then your only option will be to set the grub params of your installation with the live usb you already have.

[Marlock]

the boot menu is usually hidden on newer distros, but for a couple seconds you can press a key to show it and then make the change in the boot parameter

changing it in grub by pressing "e" is temporary, so yes, you'll need to do it again to boot into the installed OS and then do some manual editing to make it permanent

to show the grub menu try this (works for ubuntu, should be the same for PopOS):
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/key-to-show-grub-menu-ubuntu

to make that parameter into a permanent change to grub entries (once tested) do this (should be the same on PopOS as is in Ubuntu:
1. edit the grub template file

sudo gedit /etc/default/grub

2. add the new boot parameter to the line that looks like GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="........"
(again at the end of the line inside the quotation and separated by a space char from other params)

3. re-generate the grub menu from the edited template so the change is applied

sudo update-grub

here is an old, old video that shows a similar process (for a different issue and a different parameter, on a much older and uglier linux distro), just in case you are unsure what is expected
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zmQep_ZMXz4

[Ad Hominem]

Originally posted by Marlock:

the boot menu is usually hidden on newer distros, but for a couple seconds you can press a key to show it and then make the change in the boot parameter

changing it in grub by pressing "e" is temporary, so yes, you'll need to do it again to boot into the installed OS and then do some manual editing to make it permanent

to show the grub menu try this (works for ubuntu, should be the same for PopOS):
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/key-to-show-grub-menu-ubuntu

to make that parameter into a permanent change to grub entries (once tested) do this (should be the same on PopOS as is in Ubuntu:
1. edit the grub template file

sudo gedit /etc/default/grub

2. add the new boot parameter to the line that looks like GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="........"
(again at the end of the line inside the quotation and separated by a space char from other params)

3. re-generate the grub menu from the edited template so the change is applied

sudo update-grub

here is an old, old video that shows a similar process (for a different issue and a different parameter, on a much older and uglier linux distro), just in case you are unsure what is expected
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zmQep_ZMXz4

With your previous help I was able to make the installer work, Got Pop OS completely installed last night, but after the install it had to reboot. And when it did, it lost that parameter that makes the NVMe work, so when it boots into the installed OS there is a welcome screen that I couldn't click through fast enough to do anything useful in the OS.

I didn't realize there was a way to get back to the boot parameters once it was installed because there is no splash screen or anything, even though fast boot is disabled it basically acts like fast boot, I guess because the SSD is so fast.

I ended up hanging my head in shame and reinstalling Windows last night, resigning to waiting for more support for my hardware. I do have an extra 120GB sata SSD laying around that I could put in this machine, but it would be kinda silly to not use the fastest SSD for the OS.

Tonight when my son goes to bed I will try again to install, which I should be able to get through, and then get to the boot parameters once the OS is installed by holding the right shift as laid out in the link you posted. If I can do that I should be able to get in the OS to make the change permanently.

Out of curiosity, what does that command actually do? Does it slow down the drive or something so the OS can handle it? Would I be just as well off using a SATA SSD?

[x_wing]

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive/NVMe#Samsung_drive_errors_on_Linux_4.10

[Ad Hominem]

Originally posted by Marlock:

the boot menu is usually hidden on newer distros, but for a couple seconds you can press a key to show it and then make the change in the boot parameter

changing it in grub by pressing "e" is temporary, so yes, you'll need to do it again to boot into the installed OS and then do some manual editing to make it permanent

to show the grub menu try this (works for ubuntu, should be the same for PopOS):
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/key-to-show-grub-menu-ubuntu

to make that parameter into a permanent change to grub entries (once tested) do this (should be the same on PopOS as is in Ubuntu:
1. edit the grub template file

sudo gedit /etc/default/grub

2. add the new boot parameter to the line that looks like GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="........"
(again at the end of the line inside the quotation and separated by a space char from other params)

3. re-generate the grub menu from the edited template so the change is applied

sudo update-grub

here is an old, old video that shows a similar process (for a different issue and a different parameter, on a much older and uglier linux distro), just in case you are unsure what is expected
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zmQep_ZMXz4

I actually just tried installing again, and after install I cant get the GRUB menu to show by holding shift like the link says to do. Just by chance I was trying different things and I was able to get to a kernel command line by button mashing 'e' during boot.

[Marlock]

Good news then! I hope the rest of the issues aren't too hard to overcome if they do manifest for you.


A comment about the state of support for laptop hardware on linux in general:

Laptops are harder to choose for Linux than desktop PCs mainly because they come with built-in components from many sources and you don't really get to pick which... at least not part-by-part as in a custom-built PC... depending on the laptop some components can be changed by a more compatible one later, but not always and not as easily as in a PC... other components are not in separate standardized modules so you're really stuck with them... either the manufacturer cares about choosing linux-supported components, or you might have stupid issues like yours.


for wifi chips, the proportion of supported chips is getting better, so the odds of getting one with poor/flaky/no kernel support are thankfully not that big now, but still is a headache when it happens

realtek notoriously never helps anyone get working opensource linux drivers, the chips that have it are mostly reverse engineered, exhibiting unreliable/sluggish performance, but in most cases some closed source driver can be installed later (like you have to do on windows for every chip if you install it from scratch)

other makers like broadcom and intel have more models with good support albeit not *all* models even on these brands will work out-of the-box without fiddling

eg: intel actively develops their own opensource driver for their wifi chips (at least some recent ones), but support still might come with a small delay after a new chip hits the market (sometimes from slow driver development and sometimes because distros usually have a delay ranging from a month to a couple years to adopting by default a linux kernel branch after it gains support)


NVMe is a relatively recent storage tech and again, on laptops, you are kind of stuck with the manufacturer's choices... most laptops should have standard format modules for storage so it is viable to trade them for a 100% supported one... even if not (eg: soldered memory chips exist, though gladly uncommon) that kind of issue should improve soon, once the most common quirks of varied NVMe models have been dealt with by linux kernel devs, but still we are on somewhat early days on that topic


keyboard layouts and exotic media/function keys might have issues working on linux due to frequent deviations from standards (either poor design, or infrequent/new ideas... this kind of issue gets permanently fixed on kernel updates after a couple years but until then there are also workarounds that users can apply, if they are lucky to find someone who fugures it out and posts online the recipe/files

touchpads are mostly all supported now, but every once in a while some manufacturer comes up with a quirky one (mostly finetuning some speed variable but very rarely not working at all)... same as keyboards, but besides kernel, sometimes libinput updates are enough


it's important to note that many models of a hardware component can use the same base chip so the support for new models is sometimes instantaneous, hence the situation is not as bad as it may look from what I wrote above...


anyway, buying hardware with the intention to have linux support from the start *does* help, as selecting brands and models with that in mind can avoid some headaches, but don't give up in the new toy you got!

You might have to learn a few tricks in the process of making it work, but it will probably be worth it ;)