OK Trying again - Nvidia NVHDA and Ubuntu Intentional Obsolescence - Positive Spin

[ack0329]

OK Trying yet again!
2 1/2 years later and MANY new Nvidia Drivers fail at loading or even finding/acknowledging the NVHDA (Nvidia High Def'n Audio Controller - HDMI for short)

It HAS to be INTENTIONAL - PERIOD! ... 3 years of post with known manual workarounds NOT being addressed, or implemented in the newer kernels)

So Why then ... and this is NOT conspiracy Theory!
I just gave up today after needing to re-install Nvidia's "Proprietary-TESTED!!" Ubuntu Driver.

It would not allow me too!

The good news ... and an answer to WHY?
The promise of a GREAT replacement to the ageing Xorg (X-Server - 15++ years old) is .... as many people know

Wayland - Which has never and still to the best of my knowledge ODDLY play well, OR AT ALL, with Nvidia's Drivers.

So there is clearly a little WAR going on iwth Ubuntu and Proprietary Drivers! (Nvidia)

Fine - 3 years trying out Wayland and NOT working well with many things (Nvidia first and foremost!)

but at least Trying to be forced by Ubuntu into existence - For the RIGHT reasons!
Not like Windows Forcing Vista into your PC 15 years ago - at a COST of trying to get an additional $1,200 from every PC owner in the WORLD!
and Do the Math as I digress
7 Billion People on the earth, and MS (Microsoft) is worth $500 Billion! and just by forcing Windows into an unnatural - Monopolistic Exhistence

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I digress



The simple CONCLUSION
I just let Ubuntu restart with
Nouveau, and
Wayland

and frankly it is smoother, and better in UHDef (4 K)

no Stuttering / Screen Tearing / or Lags all known for 10 years with Linux and Nvidia

so here it is

Wayland and Nouveau with NO COST to you seem to be working

AWESOMELY

[Marlock]

it's been true for a while already that noveau is better for legacy nvidia gpus

its real problem (as phoronix notes on all articles pertaining noveau updates) is that it can't reclock newer gpus from boot clocks without a signed firmware that nvidia just wont give them a copy of the keys, ever...

so for older hardware or for light usage it's better than nvidia proprietary drivers indeed


about Wayland:

you can't blame canonical on it alone (or even much at all) since it is being developed by RedHat...

Canonical used to develop Mir as a competing display driver, but gave up on it and instead Mir now only does complementary tasks and uses wayland...

and afaik even then Ubuntu doesn't use Mir, just offers wayland as alternative (currently default?) user session along with x.org... I believe Mir only ever really got used on the Ubuntu Phone and such, then got repurposed for IoT or something.

Most issues with wayland seem to be related to X-Wayland still being crappy but being extremely necessary, to run software that needs x.org over wayland instead (but i'm not an expert in the details)

Give it one more decade or so and it should be fulky mature... until then starting a user session with x.org might work around some issues.


On Nvidia vs Wayland... nobody can convince Nvidia to do anything differently, so either suck it up and use x.org with it until the end of times or until wayland devs give up and do thibgs wrong to please nvidia users... or get an AMD card next time (their drivers are getting so much better now on linux that the move might be worth it dependung on your usage)

[Marlock]

I do remember something about using parts of noveau to redirect data from nvidia closed source drivers to a more sane and linux-standard display buffer handler (noveau's) being pitched as a way to make their stubborn driver work with wayland...
(or something like that, if anyone remembers more about this I'm interested)

True, Canonical's NIH posture wasted everyone's time (and nearly broke them too, I'm glad its tuned down a lot now) but Mir wasn't a total waste, IIRC some ideas from it got incorporated in Wayland eventually

having alternative approaches being developed in parallel isn't necessarily a waste, but they definitely could have been more colaborative with the other alternative instead of treating them as competition (as I recall they sometimes did, though not being part of it can get us users into the wrong impression about how teams talk to each other or don't)

[Aoi Blue]

Messaggio originale di Marlock:

it's been true for a while already that noveau is better for legacy nvidia gpus

its real problem (as phoronix notes on all articles pertaining noveau updates) is that it can't reclock newer gpus from boot clocks without a signed firmware that nvidia just wont give them a copy of the keys, ever...

They won't even sign the Mesa firmware for Mesa, or give them a signed tarball.

[ack0329]

Just FYI
Optimism quickly Destroyed,

tried the "Pause" expecting it to work better then ever (troublesome with Nvidia)
and rebooting/Waking_up WILL NOT work

ok back to "Open Source" Nvidia as choosing the 430 proprietary-Tested comes up with an unmet dependency/broken packages
rubbish as I purged nvidia

Oh well good news is that the "Open Source Nvidia 415

DID INSTALL

and to my surprise

First time in 1 year with this machine ... the NVHDA works!

YEPPER

FINALLY

works without needing to manually install the NVHDA Module

FINALLY

FINALLY

WooHOO

Ackster Over and Our

[ack0329]

But sadly it is still

JITTERY - but just a tad - LIVEABLE

but It now offers me 3890 4K at 60hz and Slightly Jittery with Nvidia's Driver!
but with Nouveau at 4096 9:5 iand ONLY allowing 30HZ - ... 1/2 the hz - and SMOOTHER

but for the heck I just chose 4096 4K and it now also gives 59 Hz Option and I chose it and to my surprise it works!

I guess I am happy again!

[Marlock]

Nvidia gaming on Linux: brings you exclusive strong emotions

[Aoi Blue]

You want Open Source Mesa drivers. Version 19+

[ack0329]

Just for the heck of it ...

I have been using the "Open Source" Driver Nvidia-415 with minimal problems,

but I DO FEEL there is a little more "STUTTERING" with this open source driver,

so

having said that, I thought - ONE more crack at installing the "Proprietary Nvidia-430 ... TESTED" ...
that "Developer can't improve or change.

So I really wanted to stay with the Open Source 415, to kinda piss off Nvidia

but the "Proprietary" Driver just installed and
....
FRANKLY
...
It SEEMS better w.r.t. "Stuttering" and "Screen Tearing"

[ack0329]

and just an Update,

There have been years (5-7) where Nvidia has Screen Tearing Issues with MOST ALL Linux Desktop or Notebook Drivers. But NOT with any proprietary Linux related Products:
ex) android phones, many new Tablets (especially Samsung), Chromebooks etc etc
and NONE of these have ANY screen tearing issues AT ALL! (Nvidia with Linux Kernel proprietary products)

Just FYI

but I simply want to correct my "Complaint" about screen tearing as there has been minimal to NO "Screen Tearing" in the past 1 - 1 1/2 years in any Nvidia Drivers for Linux Notebook or PC's

so my present suggestion is simply for better Stuttering Issues ...
and having said that

this "Proprietary Nvidia-430

SEEMS best in that regard

and I really kinda wish the "Open Source" driver was better, but I don't believe it is yet!

So Proprietary it is for the time being

and it does seem rock solid

[Marlock]

isn't the nvidia opensource driver called noveau? and isn't it part of Mesa?

I'm a bit confused by you refering to "Opensource Nvidia 415" driver given that 415 is the numbering used by Nvidia on their closed source driver and AFAIK mesa and noveau not using the same numbering range...

Or is there a new opensource nvidia driver in town that I never heard of?!

[Marlock]

Also the drivers stack on android is totally different from linux and is arguably a clusterf+ck... you get great results with the version of android they were made for, but they never really see serious updates and don't usually work on later versions of the OS.

This in turn kills the devices very early in what otherwise could be their service life, because the device is stuck with the old insecure version of the OS and not even custom roms can salvage them for very long with shims and reverse engineering... perks of a closed source driver over proprietary hardware shrouded in a wall of Non-Disclosure Agreements.

If you ever get curious as to how bad this is, read a few of the first monthly posts from LineageOS (or from CyanogenMod before that).

So PROS and CONS, and IMHO the CONS (loosing the device before it actually breaks) are bad for my taste... which is why I'm really happy already about the new linux smartphones being developed (Librem 5 from Purism and PinePhone from Pine64)... they can't come soon enough (Librem 5 could be cheaper though... ouch!)

A similar issue could happen with proprietary drivers for nvidia gpus on linux PCs but you never really see it because nvidia is at least willing to maintain updated drivers for a while longer for older gpu models, but it is their choice and nobody will be able to rise to the challenge/pickup their slack if they suddenly change their minds...
... well, as I understand it (not much I confess) sometimes you do see it one aspect of that, when nvidia drivers don't work on a version of the linux kernel because it is "too new" for the closed source driver they distribute.

[Marlock]

So all this time he was probably comparing closed source nvidia driver 415 from a PPA to closed source nvidia 430 from ?wherever? (maybe even the same PPA?) and jumping from one to the other a couple times must have fixed whatever was wrong with dependancies and the original install attempt, right?

[ack0329]

Ubuntu has 4 kinds of "Nvidia" Drivers available:
Nvidia Proprietary 430 as of today (Where No One can Alter or modify it! - but Ubuntu MAY just "Test It" and label it as Tested - but again NOT modified by or for Ubuntu
and 390 "Not Tested"

Now - the confusing one indeed - Nvidia - YES Nvidia ...
Nvidia - Open Source - 396/ 410 /415 Where Ubuntu and others PROUDLY can modify it to work with Ubuntu

and of course Nouveau which is NOT an Nvidia Driver per say but will work ALWAYS with the downside of ...
much worse 3-D rendering (as of this day, anyway)

[Marlock]

cool! totally wrong info passed by the driver manager, but cool!

[ack0329]

I totally agree with the Exception that ....
Ubuntu clearly SAYS
that the Nvidia 306/ 410 / 415/ are Open Source ... in the sense that they CAN manipulate them

At Least that is what Software Updater says ...
But in REALITY I would be very surprised that Ubuntu with its' "Hate-On" for Nvidia actually has spent much if any time manipulating these Drivers

Who Knows for sure