So... who else was disappointed by Half-Life 2?

[Kristuhn]

Hi there!

I was recenety convinced to give the Half-Life series a try and wow, I'm glad I did.
The first game is filled with amazing storytelling techniques. The plot was seductive and had me addicted to unraveling little bits of the story the developers left behind like crumbs to follow to your grand ma-ma's house while throwing waves of action at you that didn't distract from the plot at all. I appriciated the subtle cues the developers used to amplify the suspense in a tense situation and recognized the ways they were trying to condition the player to react to certain stimuli as the game progressed. You better know I was nervous as all hell to approach even a puddle of water after meeting that... THING in the depths. I think the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ graphics in HL1 actually added to the suspense...especially when dealing with that murky water.
Best of all, I felt the action sequences in the first game supplemented the story perfectly. There was a good balance of plot to action, in my opinion. For example, I remember feeling betrayed when the military started attacking me and the group of scientists I ran into when I finally made my way to the surface from within Black Mesa. I ran up to them expecting to be saved and then ran away screaming (irl) because my HEROES WERE TRYING TO KILL ME. I enjoyed feeling confused while playing this game but being able to put together all of the pieces in one go, then experiencing the horrifying reality once I did.

In HL2, for example, I felt like I was thrown into a world and my one job was to RUN LIKE HELL away from everyone that was shooting. I didn't kow who the Combine were. It wasn't until after I completed the game and listened to analysis videos that I realized they were an alien race set on conquering worlds. I thought they were the same miliary force attacking me in the first game. From my experience playing HL2, I thought that in the time I was deactivated, the US military invaded Zen and appropriated their technology to integrated those advancements into the military's weapons and war vehicles. HL2's story felt like it was spread too thinly across the ginormous world, and because of that, it was difficult for me to put the plot together.
What I thought was a cool mechanic was the fact that Gordon can move after "dying", at least until the player presses a key on the keyboard. It implies that Gordon has inherited some supernatural ability to transcend death by keeping his experiences from a failed timeline and using his knowledge to complete his tasks until he is successful in whatever his mission is.

All in all, I think HL2's story felt empty because it seemed they focused more on optimizing the graphics and gameplay than fleshing out the plot. I mean, my game data says it all. I played HL1 almost twice as long as I played HL2. I didn't feel rushed through the story like I did with HL2. Thoughts?

[Sovereign]

No offense but it seems you may have simply failed to pay attention to the details. The HL games don't really do a lot of direct expostion. You need to pay attention to things like the environment and background dialogue to get the full picture of what's going on. HL1 does this as well but it's story is more simple and straight forward so it's a bit easier to grasp.

Also being thrown into a new world at the start without knowing what's going on is intentional, the game wants you to be as confused as Gordon realistically is so that you can piece things together as you go.

Not sure how you confused the Combine with the US marines though. XD

[Half life Expert]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

No offense but it seems you may have simply failed to pay attention to the details. The HL games don't really do a lot of direct expostion. You need to pay attention to things like the environment and background dialogue to get the full picture of what's going on. HL1 does this as well but it's story is more simple and straight forward so it's a bit easier to grasp.

Also being thrown into a new world at the start without knowing what's going on is intentional, the game wants you to be as confused as Gordon realistically is so that you can piece things together as you go.

Not sure how you confused the Combine with the US marines though. XD

Exactly, the whole point of the unique storytelling in the Half Life series is that it avoids overt exposition, rather blending much of the story into the world around you.

And yeah seriously I don't get how you could have thought the Combine were just some continuation of Earth governments, especially since the newspaper corkboard in Eli's lab makes it blatantly obvious that Earth was invaded by the Combine.

Unless, as Soverign suggests, you failed to actually look at the world around you in-game.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Half life Expert:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

No offense but it seems you may have simply failed to pay attention to the details. The HL games don't really do a lot of direct expostion. You need to pay attention to things like the environment and background dialogue to get the full picture of what's going on. HL1 does this as well but it's story is more simple and straight forward so it's a bit easier to grasp.

Also being thrown into a new world at the start without knowing what's going on is intentional, the game wants you to be as confused as Gordon realistically is so that you can piece things together as you go.

Not sure how you confused the Combine with the US marines though. XD

Exactly, the whole point of the unique storytelling in the Half Life series is that it avoids overt exposition, rather blending much of the story into the world around you.

And yeah seriously I don't get how you could have thought the Combine were just some continuation of Earth governments, especially since the newspaper corkboard in Eli's lab makes it blatantly obvious that Earth was invaded by the Combine.

Unless, as Soverign suggests, you failed to actually look at the world around you in-game.

Even if the OP missed the newspaper I still think the giant bloody wormhole to an alien dimension should have tipped them off. XD

[Half life Expert]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Originally posted by Half life Expert:

Exactly, the whole point of the unique storytelling in the Half Life series is that it avoids overt exposition, rather blending much of the story into the world around you.

And yeah seriously I don't get how you could have thought the Combine were just some continuation of Earth governments, especially since the newspaper corkboard in Eli's lab makes it blatantly obvious that Earth was invaded by the Combine.

Unless, as Soverign suggests, you failed to actually look at the world around you in-game.

Even if the OP missed the newspaper I still think the giant bloody wormhole to an alien dimension should have tipped them off. XD

That, along with the alien creatures that are clearly not just wildlife (Strider, Dropship, Gunship)

[Half life Expert]

Originally posted by Kristuhn:

Originally posted by Half life Expert:

Exactly, the whole point of the unique storytelling in the Half Life series is that it avoids overt exposition, rather blending much of the story into the world around you.

And yeah seriously I don't get how you could have thought the Combine were just some continuation of Earth governments, especially since the newspaper corkboard in Eli's lab makes it blatantly obvious that Earth was invaded by the Combine.

Unless, as Soverign suggests, you failed to actually look at the world around you in-game.

Sure, but did you miss when I said I felt like the action in the game pushed me to rush through the levels? I didn't have time to both fend off attacks from the Combine and listen to the faint dialogue in the background. The exposition was easy to miss in this game. The world was too large and it felt rushed.

Certainly some parts of HL2 are intense, but there are other parts that allow you to take your time, such as the Coast chapters, Ravenholm, and parts of Route Kanal and Water Hazard.

And most of the puzzles are built in there expressly for the reason of giving the player a break from constant combat.

And there is ZERO action or combat in Eli's Lab, you are even given a little time to explore the lab at your leasure, plenty of time to have seen that corkboard with newspaper clipings which should have explained to you that the Combine are not from Earth.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Kristuhn:

Originally posted by Half life Expert:

Exactly, the whole point of the unique storytelling in the Half Life series is that it avoids overt exposition, rather blending much of the story into the world around you.

And yeah seriously I don't get how you could have thought the Combine were just some continuation of Earth governments, especially since the newspaper corkboard in Eli's lab makes it blatantly obvious that Earth was invaded by the Combine.

Unless, as Soverign suggests, you failed to actually look at the world around you in-game.

Sure, but did you miss when I said I felt like the action in the game pushed me to rush through the levels? I didn't have time to both fend off attacks from the Combine and listen to the faint dialogue in the background. The exposition was easy to miss in this game. The world was too large and it felt rushed.

Most of the dialogue occurs when your out of combat and the almost never forces you to move through a level outside of the couple of brief chase bit's in the first two chapters.

There is almost no exposition in either HL1 or 2 and that's the point, you need to actually pay attention to know what's going on. It's a far more immersive way of storytelling then lot's of inorganic exposition.

Not sure what you mean about it being too large or rushed, It's a pretty linear game and was in development for around 6 years.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Kristuhn:

Originally posted by Half life Expert:

Certainly some parts of HL2 are intense, but there are other parts that allow you to take your time, such as the Coast chapters, Ravenholm, and parts of Route Kanal and Water Hazard.

And most of the puzzles are built in there expressly for the reason of giving the player a break from constant combat.

Of course, and during those puzzles, I was able to follow the story. But you cannot neglect that there are times where there are both dialogue spoken from a monitor and fights going on that distract the player from listening intently. Those distractions, sometimes during critical moments of exposition, may cause holes in one's understanding as they are flowing through events in real-time.

Could you give us examples of these "distracting" moments?

[Half life Expert]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Originally posted by Kristuhn:

Sure, but did you miss when I said I felt like the action in the game pushed me to rush through the levels? I didn't have time to both fend off attacks from the Combine and listen to the faint dialogue in the background. The exposition was easy to miss in this game. The world was too large and it felt rushed.

Most of the dialogue occurs when your out of combat and the almost never forces you to move through a level outside of the couple of brief chase bit's in the first two chapters.

There is almost no exposition in either HL1 or 2 and that's the point, you need to actually pay attention to know what's going on. It's a far more immersive way of storytelling then lot's of inorganic exposition.

Not sure what you mean about it being too large or rushed, It's pretty linear game and was in development for around 6 years.

There is exposition, but there isn't a ton of overt exposition, things such as cutscenes, narration etc.

Having No Exposition would mean the game telling you basically nothing at all, which of course HL absolutely does not do.


And yes, Half Life 2 did take about six years to make. In fact huge changes were made to it in the 1.5 years between it's unveiling and it's release. It went through a long and varied development cycle. The Raising the Bar book really shows all the different ideas and things that were considered and thrown out. They really put tons of effort into HL2, making it the exact opposite of a rushed game.

However, Xen in Half Life 1 was sort of rushed, that is certain.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Half life Expert:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Most of the dialogue occurs when your out of combat and the almost never forces you to move through a level outside of the couple of brief chase bit's in the first two chapters.

There is almost no exposition in either HL1 or 2 and that's the point, you need to actually pay attention to know what's going on. It's a far more immersive way of storytelling then lot's of inorganic exposition.

Not sure what you mean about it being too large or rushed, It's pretty linear game and was in development for around 6 years.

There is exposition, but there isn't a ton of overt exposition, things such as cutscenes, narration etc.

Having No Exposition would mean the game telling you basically nothing at all, which of course HL absolutely does not do.

Yeah your right, sorry, poor choice of words on my part. I meant direct exposition, as in actually stopping the game to explain the story directly to the main character, which only happens fairly rarely when compared to other story-driven games.

[Half life Expert]

Originally posted by Kristuhn:

Originally posted by Half life Expert:

There is exposition, but there isn't a ton of overt exposition, things such as cutscenes, narration etc.

Having No Exposition would mean the game telling you basically nothing at all, which of course HL absolutely does not do.

Exactly, what HL1 did in its sequence of events was tell a story. The events themselves told the story. In HL2, it felt like all you were doing was running in sewers and shooting down gunships. To me, running through HL2 felt like a labrat running through maze to touch a lever. Every level felt similar.

My apoligies, but I just do not understand how you could have come to that conclusion. There are significant portions that are just not like that. The best examples are the Coast chapters and Ravenholm.

What you describe can very much be attributed to the early chapters (Point Insertion, A Red Letter Day, Route Kanal, Water Hazard) but that is only the first 1/3 or so of the game.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Kristuhn:

Originally posted by Half life Expert:

There is exposition, but there isn't a ton of overt exposition, things such as cutscenes, narration etc.

Having No Exposition would mean the game telling you basically nothing at all, which of course HL absolutely does not do.

Exactly, what HL1 did in its sequence of events was tell a story. The events themselves told the story. In HL2, it felt like all you were doing was running in sewers and shooting down gunships. To me, running through HL2 felt like a labrat running through maze to touch a lever. Every level felt similar.

I'm sorry I don't really see where your coming from here, HL2 tells a story just as much as HL1, it's just a bit more complex on the surface.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Kristuhn:

Originally posted by Half life Expert:

My apoligies, but I just do not understand how you could have come to that conclusion. There are significant portions that are just not like that. The best examples are the Coast chapters and Ravenholm.

What you describe can very much be attributed to the early chapters (Point Insertion, A Red Letter Day, Route Kanal, Water Hazard) but that is only the first 1/3 or so of the game.

That's still a third of the game where I don't have a clear story. I agree with you with Ravenholm but I dont think areas like this one make up for potentially missing out on a critical line of dialogue because you found the monitor too late or the sound of gunfire drowns him out.
Ravenholm was one of my fav, though. I loved that area because of how focused the developers were on the little details that enhanced the suspense in a level. My favorite was when we were first introduced to the quick variant of zombie with a clunking sound then an attack.

What's more clear then "the world's being taken over by evil aliens and you must stop them"?

Everything you need to know is blatantly obvious or just told to the player, just like in HL1. Most of the finer details aren't even hard to find, I found most of them on my first plathrough and I was only 10 at the time.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Kristuhn:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

What's more clear then "the world's being taken over by evil aliens and you must stop them"?

Everything you need to know is blatantly obvious or just told to the player, just like in HL1. Most of the finer details aren't even hard to find, I found most of them on my first plathrough and I was only 10 at the time.

Sorry, I like a little more detail in my story than "OMG ALEINS! Point and shoot!". I'd like to know more about the consequences after Zen fell. What caused the Combine to attack us? If it was the nuke from the first game, i would have liked to have known that organically as I played instead of having to duck while key points of dialogue are spoken from a speaker across the courtyard. I would have liked more time exploring the world the Combine created due to the consequences surrounding Zen. HOW did this all happen? one moment its blck mesa, the next its an enslaved world thanks to the combine and we have to break everyone free because we are the Free Man.
The story was scarce and scattered. It failed in storytelling where HL1 did not. HL 1 told a very compelling story in one game. It didnt need additional episodes to give a new player a complete telling of its story. Half life one was better.

But HL1 does the same thing, it's "OMG ALEINS! Point and shoot!" on the surface but everything else, like why the aliens are attacking, why the military are shooting at you, who the Nihilanth is, what Black Mesa does, who the Black Ops are, what the Lambda complex does etc. are only hinted at or told through background dialogue or the environment, just like in HL2.

I'm sorry mate but if I could figure all this out as a dumb child then you should to. This is on you, not the game.

P.S. Oh and it's "Xen", not "Zen".

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Kristuhn:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

But HL1 does the same thing, it's "OMG ALEINS! Point and shoot!" on the surface but everything else, like why the aliens are attacking, why the military are shooting at you, who the Nihilanth is, what Black Mesa does, who the Black Ops are, what the Lambda complex does etc. are only hinted at or told through background dialogue or the environment, just like in HL2.

I'm sorry mate but if I could figure all this out as a dumb child then you should to. This is on you, not the game.

P.S. Oh and it's "Xen", not "Zen".

Sorry you were a dumb child, but I still think HL2 lacked in storytelling in ways that HL1 did not. I felt HL1 used the action to propel the storyline whereas in HL2 it became a distraction. IN HL2, They relied on key points of the plot being delivered via direct communication instead of allowing the player to put together the events of the story through the gameplay itself, like in HL1. The developers were too focused on making the water nicer and let the story fall flat. Sorry you're butthurt about this but the reality is, is that it was a let down compared to its predecessor.

Haha, whoops. I was remembering the name of the realm phonetically, you know, "spelled as it sounds". Also, goes to show how much of a fanboy you are.

Originally posted by Kristuhn:

Originally posted by Kristuhn:

Sorry you were a dumb child, but I still think HL2 lacked in storytelling in ways that HL1 did not. I felt HL1 used the action to propel the storyline whereas in HL2 it became a distraction. IN HL2, They relied on key points of the plot being delivered via direct communication instead of allowing the player to put together the events of the story through the gameplay itself, like in HL1. The developers were too focused on making the water nicer and let the story fall flat. Sorry you're butthurt about this but the reality is, is that it was a let down compared to its predecessor.

Haha, whoops. I was remembering the name of the realm phonetically, you know, "spelled as it sounds". Also, goes to show how much of a fanboy you are.

Actually now that I think about how the action was used in HL1, I see thatyour statement is flawed. HL1 exposes you to more and more of the creatures from Xen ;) the more you progress through mesa and to the surface. When you reach the surface, you realize everyone is trying to kill you and then you run away back into the complex. It's then you realize your best hope is at lambda complex so you bust it for that. When you do the thing at Lamdba, you suddenly thrust into Xen, if memory serves. At that point, its explore and survive time with a sprinkle of horror here and there. It's all so engaging. HL2 was not.

It seems this has turned from a good natured debate into you just going "NO, YOUR WRONG, I'M RIGHT!"

If you didn't want your opinion challenged then why did you post this and ask for our thoughts in the first place?

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Kristuhn:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

It seems this has turned from a good natured debate into you just going "NO, YOUR WRONG, I'M RIGHT!"

If you didn't want your opinion challenged then why did you post this and ask for our thoughts in the first place?

When you have nothing else to back up your claim, you try devalueing the other's? Your counterpoint was that "I missed the story". My point is, "no, this game just sucked at storytelling."
And, you're mistaken. I don't post on this to start arguements. I wanted to start a discussion about why Half-Life 2's story felt empty compared to Half-Life 1's. If you can't handle a discussion and a difference in opinion, then maybe that's something to look in to.

So basically you just wanted someone to blindly agree with you?

Anyway what else more do I need to back up my claim? I fully understood HL2’s story just fine without needing some kind of analysis video to explain it to me and in the last 14 years I’ve never met anyone who couldn’t say the same.

Seriously how can it be the games fault that you didn’t realize this:
https://pre00.deviantart.net/62f1/th/pre/i/2016/034/e/b/half_life_strider_by_plumporange-d9qccrr.jpg
was an alien rather then a member of the US marine corps?