the reason why Half Life 2: Beta storyline was probably better than the retail

[Singularity's Marauder]

And no, I don't want any arguments that say "it looked cooler, cause it was unfinished, and unfinished things always look more mysterious than the final product, cause the meaning isn't there yet". That's not true, na-ah. I disagree with that.
I think that the reason the final product looked worse than the original story-wise is cause Valve chickened out. They had a functional story that could work amazingly and probably be one of the most revolutionary things every writen for a game. That kind of thing could have a mega butterfly effect that would ring across all video games of modern age, causing us to live in an alternative dimnesion where video games would have actual intricate complicated stories rather than story beats that are meant to be kept in the background as gameplay is put at the forefront.

Valve asks people if they like their story and then adapts that. They make multiple tests to find out whether something is fun to play against, fun to explore, and then rewrite accordingly. They were willing to sterilize and main-stream their sequences in order to create the most perfect enjoyable marketable video game, where white dude in a goatee singlehandedly destroys a facist empire.
But they did have a different game in mind initially, that had a much more darker world, where success seemed to be temporary, and the feeling of adrenaline no less so pointless as the feeling of existence itself. But then they had like probably some guy who didn't know ♥♥♥♥ about art tell them that "hydra isn't fun, lol", and they removed the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ thing, cause companies don't feel like making art, they feel like making money.
And if one thing goes in their away and seems like something that could bring the destruction of the entire product, then they freaking... Rekindle everything bit by bit.

Yes, this is a deranged, psychotic rant, written by a Covid-era broken individual who is angry about the fact that he lives in the seemingly most annoying and depressing timeline, well... Excluding the nuclear war, third world war... And many things that could go horribly wrong.
And no, you do not have to agree with me.
This is my stupid opinion, and you should feel free to critcize or ignore it.

[calembredaine]

more like it looks cool because wow dark, wow so much stuff and wow so much potential. does not mean it would have worked nearly that well to someone who has been tinkering and conceiving it.

alternate realities are all nice and dandy but in the end they only exist in your head, and nothing says they would have been even close to the exact same in an actual reality.

the best favor you could do yourself imo -if and only if you deem that so-called art important, that is- would be develop game making competences, then join the existing myriad of existing beta recreations which strive to not fall into that damn war memorial the hl2 beta niche has been for decades. people wanting to do the allegedly right justice will have to do so by themselves in the end.
plus i say that because if you succeed, i might have to play another gud free beta mod

[Singularity's Marauder]

Originally posted by calembredaine:

more like it looks cool because wow dark, wow so much stuff and wow so much potential. does not mean it would have worked nearly that well to someone who has been tinkering and conceiving it.

alternate realities are all nice and dandy but in the end they only exist in your head, and nothing says they would have been even close to the exact same in an actual reality.

the best favor you could do yourself imo -if and only if you deem that so-called art important, that is- would be develop game making competences, then join the existing myriad of existing beta recreations which strive to not fall into that damn war memorial the hl2 beta niche has been for decades. people wanting to do the allegedly right justice will have to do so by themselves in the end.
plus i say that because if you succeed, i might have to play another gud free beta mod

my writing style of books is inspired partially by Half Life 2: Beta, unfortunately they are not in English, so l o l.
The thing about Half Life 2: Beta was that it was more natural, more thematically appriopriate. Nothing ever goes well in life, everything ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sucks. If there is a war, people go die in it, and then it ends, and the one's who are left alive are way too busy rebuilding what they had lost to even think about it.
Half Life 2 is a typical gaming... Well, more like modern media propaganda where killing is fun. In Beta killing was ominous, mysterious, evil... You didn't even know what you were killing. Combine was infinite, and sometimes they even just had old military of Earth be the very guys you had to kill.
And you walked around this desolate place that even if you took back, would never be habitable for hundreds of years to come, if ever.
And in Half Life 2... Yes, you have overexploitation, yes, you have prisons, but only one for some reason, you have the Citadel and the destroyed city. But then you somehow make things work?
How?
How's that possible?
How can so much evil be undone.
The answer, it can't.
Half Life 2: Beta universe was ♥♥♥♥♥♥.
The same way our universe is.
And that was so genius about it.

[smoking addiction]

because the beta wanted to be serious like the first game

[Snark]

The problem with focus groups is that the people you're asking for opinions will usually just suggest stuff that already exists and has been proven to work. Most people are incapable of visualizing new ideas.

There's also the fact that people enjoy mediocrity, they grow up with things that are too bland to be offensive and then get used to them and avoid new things because humans fear change, why bother with something you might not like when you can enjoy the mediocre crap you already know you love. You can see this when it comes to popular music, movies, tv shows, etc.

HL2 beta was simply too artsy for the average normie to enjoy, too gloomy, too weird, etc. Aside from what the public would think, I also feel like the ideas were too ambitious for the tech at the time, the toxic smog like air would have been hard to pull off in 2004, same for the big open wasteland environments.

[Singularity's Marauder]

Originally posted by Snark:

The problem with focus groups is that the people you're asking for opinions will usually just suggest stuff that already exists and has been proven to work. Most people are incapable of visualizing new ideas.

There's also the fact that people enjoy mediocrity, they grow up with things that are too bland to be offensive and then get used to them and avoid new things because humans fear change, why bother with something you might not like when you can enjoy the mediocre crap you already know you love. You can see this when it comes to popular music, movies, tv shows, etc.

HL2 beta was simply too artsy for the average normie to enjoy, too gloomy, too weird, etc. Aside from what the public would think, I also feel like the ideas were too ambitious for the tech at the time, the toxic smog like air would have been hard to pull off in 2004, same for the big open wasteland environments.

toxic air can be transparent, just like it mostly is in real life.
And yes, I absolutely agree with you. Focus groups can help decide whether a mediocre product is actually bad, but it's hard to really underline how good a thing can be, if it is too exotic to be understood in seconds after being played.
Dark Souls took many years before it properly sold with the public and then it initiated a whole trend of difficult, ominous ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ games that everyone in modern times... Well... At least a noticeable chunk of people loves.
Valve did make a new kind of game with Half Life 2. It wasn't wholy stupidly stream-lined. But the overall cheeriness of it, and the cheeky action sequences, and the fact that this city... This world which had suffered a complete existential meltdown is still somehow hanging about in positive attitudes is ridiculous to me.

[Sovereign]

If you read Raising the Bar they explain why most beta concepts were cut. Most of the time it either didn't work or didn't lead to interesting gameplay, as in it was boring. Some things that were cut but Valve still wanted to use were then later recycled into the Episodes, most notably the antlion hive and the Borealis.

Personally I've always scoffed at the idea people think that the game would have been better if it used more "beta" ideas. It just seems very arrogant for some internet randoms to think they know better then the actual creators, who made these ideas and worked with for years before needing to cut them, not an easy thing to do.

[Singularity's Marauder]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

If you read Raising the Bar they explain why most beta concepts were cut. Most of the time it either didn't work or didn't lead to interesting gameplay, as in it was boring. Some things that were cut but Valve still wanted to use were then later recycled into the Episodes, most notably the antlion hive and the Borealis.

Personally I've always scoffed at the idea people think that the game would have been better if it used more "beta" ideas. It just seems very arrogant for some internet randoms to think they know better then the actual creators, who made these ideas and worked with for years before needing to cut them, not an easy thing to do.

he was probably coping with the fact that his creative child was literally castrated to become more marketable and give more "good gameplay"

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Randomized Randomizer:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

If you read Raising the Bar they explain why most beta concepts were cut. Most of the time it either didn't work or didn't lead to interesting gameplay, as in it was boring. Some things that were cut but Valve still wanted to use were then later recycled into the Episodes, most notably the antlion hive and the Borealis.

Personally I've always scoffed at the idea people think that the game would have been better if it used more "beta" ideas. It just seems very arrogant for some internet randoms to think they know better then the actual creators, who made these ideas and worked with for years before needing to cut them, not an easy thing to do.

he was probably coping with the fact that his creative child was literally castrated to become more marketable and give more "good gameplay"

He? He who?

[Singularity's Marauder]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Originally posted by Randomized Randomizer:

he was probably coping with the fact that his creative child was literally castrated to become more marketable and give more "good gameplay"

He?

Marc Laidlaw

[smoking addiction]

Originally posted by Randomized Randomizer:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

If you read Raising the Bar they explain why most beta concepts were cut. Most of the time it either didn't work or didn't lead to interesting gameplay, as in it was boring. Some things that were cut but Valve still wanted to use were then later recycled into the Episodes, most notably the antlion hive and the Borealis.

Personally I've always scoffed at the idea people think that the game would have been better if it used more "beta" ideas. It just seems very arrogant for some internet randoms to think they know better then the actual creators, who made these ideas and worked with for years before needing to cut them, not an easy thing to do.

he was probably coping with the fact that his creative child was literally castrated to become more marketable and give more "good gameplay"

thats exactly what happened,hl2 was in a small dev hell

[smoking addiction]

Originally posted by smoking addiction:

Originally posted by Randomized Randomizer:

he was probably coping with the fact that his creative child was literally castrated to become more marketable and give more "good gameplay"

thats exactly what happened,hl2 was in a small dev hell

they wanted to turn the game into a tech demo more than a actually fun experience

[Singularity's Marauder]

Originally posted by smoking addiction:

Originally posted by smoking addiction:

thats exactly what happened,hl2 was in a small dev hell

they wanted to turn the game into a tech demo more than a actually fun experience

Well, maybe video games don't have to be fun. Maybe art is something more than just temporary pleasure for some Twitch streamer who can't stay focused for more than fifteen minutes, cause then he will look at chat and see a bunch of -1 and other forms of protesting.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Randomized Randomizer:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

He?

Marc Laidlaw

Half-Life wasn't "his", it was created by a team working in various smaller "cabal" units that worked on different parts and aspects of the game. For the record Laidlaw was one of the main proponents that story should serve gameplay, not the other way around. If an idea didn't lead to interesting gameplay, it was cut or reworked. It's not about marketing, it's about making the best game you can make.

P.S: you used "literally" when you meant "figuratively".

[Singularity's Marauder]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Originally posted by Randomized Randomizer:

Marc Laidlaw

Half-Life wasn't "his", it was created by a team working in various smaller "cabal" units that worked on different parts and aspects of the game. For the record Laidlaw was one of the main proponents that story should serve gameplay, not the other way around. If an idea didn't lead to interesting gameplay, it was cut or reworked. It's not about marketing, it's about making the best game you can make.

P.S: you used "literally" when you meant "figuratively".

hmmmmmmm
If you say so...
Very well.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Randomized Randomizer:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Half-Life wasn't "his", it was created by a team working in various smaller "cabal" units that worked on different parts and aspects of the game. For the record Laidlaw was one of the main proponents that story should serve gameplay, not the other way around. If an idea didn't lead to interesting gameplay, it was cut or reworked. It's not about marketing, it's about making the best game you can make.

P.S: you used "literally" when you meant "figuratively".

hmmmmmmm
If you say so...
Very well.

Have you actually read Raising the Bar? If not and you are still interested in this I recommend giving it a go. It goes in depth on the development of HL1 and 2 and why various things were changed or cut over time, coming straight from the devs themselves (including Laidlaw):

https://valvearchive.com/archive/Half-Life/Half-Life%202/Guides/Prima/Half-Life%202%20Raising%20The%20Bar/Half-Life%202%20-%20Raising%20the%20Bar.pdf

Listening to the dev commentary in Lost Coast, Ep1 and Ep2 is also worth doing.