In regards to the Combine

[Marcus Astronomius]

SPOILERS CONTAINED WITHIN

...

For a multidimensional empire that has the technology and equipment it has, I found that after replaying Half-Life 2 since 2004 in full that they are relatively understaffed and weak against the Resistance. The 7 hour war depicts a swift and brutal defeat of earth's forces.

While many reasons can attribute to the defeat of earth's military forces, the fact the Combine couldn't stop the resistance which is underequipped and not nearly as powerful as a combined army really downplays the significance of Combine prowess.

Now I understand the need for plot armor, essentially compromising certain forces to allow the character and story to progress in the intended direction, but perhaps this is a great opportunity for some undiscussed things to be covered.

[Marcus Astronomius]

It does seem strange that would be the case, considering what the Combine is after is a high priority thing, at least what we are made aware of.

[Kolibria]

Marcus Aurelius a écrit :

It does seem strange that would be the case, considering what the Combine is after is a high priority thing, at least what we are made aware of.

Not really. They have everything they need. The force on earth is just a garrison force, with low priority in the Universal Union Books.

[Marcus Astronomius]

AFAIK, Combine have been looking for technology that allows greater mobility within dimensions. They are able to travel to multiple dimensions but have no means of transporting rapidly across space in any of them. Hence, they took a deep interest in Earth due to the anomalies that occured in Black Mesa and *maybe* Aperture science.

[Ghidrah1]

Nothing to do with weakest forces, it's known as an “Occupation Force”, in the case of the combine they conscript humanity, promise an easier life to the P.O.S. that became civil protection, brainwash and augment Overwatch and elites, mutate undesirables into stalkers and create synths. There’s no need to maintain a full military body on a physically, morally, psychologically defeated planet when they can create replacements to order

If Earth had the means to mass produce HEV suits the combine would have suffered defeat shortly after the combine’s major forces left planet.

[spade]

Ghidrah1 a écrit :

Nothing to do with weakest forces, it's known as an “Occupation Force”, in the case of the combine they conscript humanity, promise an easier life to the P.O.S. that became civil protection, brainwash and augment Overwatch and elites, mutate undesirables into stalkers and create synths. There’s no need to maintain a full military body on a physically, morally, psychologically defeated planet when they can create replacements to order

If Earth had the means to mass produce HEV suits the combine would have suffered defeat shortly after the combine’s major forces left planet.

the hev suits are powerful but not that powerful, the main reason gordon survives is hev suit + high intelligence + chance + occasional g-man intervention, not just the hev suit

[coolman552]

Halagini a écrit :

Ghidrah1 a écrit :

Nothing to do with weakest forces, it's known as an “Occupation Force”, in the case of the combine they conscript humanity, promise an easier life to the P.O.S. that became civil protection, brainwash and augment Overwatch and elites, mutate undesirables into stalkers and create synths. There’s no need to maintain a full military body on a physically, morally, psychologically defeated planet when they can create replacements to order

If Earth had the means to mass produce HEV suits the combine would have suffered defeat shortly after the combine’s major forces left planet.

the hev suits are powerful but not that powerful, the main reason gordon survives is hev suit + high intelligence + chance + occasional g-man intervention, not just the hev suit

>high intelligence
yeah i mean pulling the trigger,throwing solid things and also throwing some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ antlion mumbo jumbo controller at the enemy needs very high intelligence

[spade]

Биг ниггер a écrit :

Halagini a écrit :

the hev suits are powerful but not that powerful, the main reason gordon survives is hev suit + high intelligence + chance + occasional g-man intervention, not just the hev suit

>high intelligence
yeah i mean pulling the trigger,throwing solid things and also throwing some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ antlion mumbo jumbo controller at the enemy needs very high intelligence

playing half-life 2 does not require intelligence, as a matter of fact it almost requires you to have a double digit iq

surviving an alien threat and squads of soldiers requires adapting to the situation

intelligence > chance > hev suit > high testosterone

[Marcus Astronomius]

His high intelligence is why he got into MIT and then was later accepted into Black Mesa, granting him the privilege of using the HEV suit... His intelligence is necessary.

If we are going to argue that mass producing HEV suits would make a difference, then we could argue that HECU marines should be able to cause havoc against the Combine.. Since the Combat Armor on the HECU is similar to the HEV in protection.

Obviously the game wasn't made to be played by post graduates.

In spite of being an occupation force however, I still think the Combine were not throwing out their forces in full strength. That is probably the plot armor. Gordon and the resistance could be wiped by the Combine if they pushed all their Striders and gunships out into the City simultaneously.

The lore just sets the Combine up to be remarkably powerful and well trained, well equipped. So even if it is an occupation force, I would expect the Combine would ensure it is the correct size garrison in order to contain the population and retrieve the research. I guess it just boils down to plot armor.

Though discovering a way to make it plausible would be cool.

[Matt]

Marcus Aurelius a écrit :

SPOILERS CONTAINED WITHIN

Boi, the game was released over a decade ago.

[Sovereign]

As was already stated the Combine forces seen in game are merely a lightly equipped garrison left behind to maintain order on an already conquered world and are nowhere near as powerful as the full invasion force used in the 7H War. Even then I think you underestimate them. The resistance are not actually that effective against the Combine without Gordon, by the end of Ep2 they’ve driven the humans into the countryside and are hunting them down, have killed their leader and stolen his knowledge, are still in complete control of Earth and are closing in on the borealis device. Gordon is only human threat to their dominion on Earth.

[Marcus Astronomius]

Sovereign a écrit :

The resistance are not actually that effective against the Combine without Gordon, by the end of Ep2 they’ve driven the humans into the countryside and are hunting them down

The resistance was already in the forest as that missile base was established beforehand. Also, the Combine left city 17 because of the citadel's destruction and thus their forces had to flee from the city alongside the human resistance. In short, they were both driven to the countryside.

Now for the Borealis, that is going to be a close call between the two factions. I think by the point of Episode 2, the Combine's power has waned to a level more comparable to the Resistance, since it lost the Citadel and no longer has a central base of operations and supply chain.

It is true that Gordon performed invaluable tasks for the cause of the resistance, but their numbers seem to be significant enough to cause widespread disruption amongst the cities, even without APC's, Striders, Air Support and an Artificial Intelligence directing their teams..

[coolman552]

Sovereign a écrit :

As was already stated the Combine forces seen in game are merely a lightly equipped garrison left behind to maintain order on an already conquered world and are nowhere near as powerful as the full invasion force used in the 7H War. Even then I think you underestimate them. The resistance are not actually that effective against the Combine without Gordon, by the end of Ep2 they’ve driven the humans into the countryside and are hunting them down, have killed their leader and stolen his knowledge, are still in complete control of Earth and are closing in on the borealis device. Gordon is only human threat to their dominion on Earth.

LOL OFC BECAUSE YOU KNOW DESTROYING YOUR ENTIRE ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MEGA CONSTRUCTION IS THE BEST WAY TO DRIVE OUT REBELS INTO THE COUNTRYSIDE WHICH IS THE LAST RESORT

[Sovereign]

Marcus Aurelius a écrit :

Sovereign a écrit :

The resistance are not actually that effective against the Combine without Gordon, by the end of Ep2 they’ve driven the humans into the countryside and are hunting them down

The resistance was already in the forest as that missile base was established beforehand. Also, the Combine left city 17 because of the citadel's destruction and thus their forces had to flee from the city alongside the human resistance. In short, they were both driven to the countryside.

Now for the Borealis, that is going to be a close call between the two factions. I think by the point of Episode 2, the Combine's power has waned to a level more comparable to the Resistance, since it lost the Citadel and no longer has a central base of operations and supply chain.

It is true that Gordon performed invaluable tasks for the cause of the resistance, but their numbers seem to be significant enough to cause widespread disruption amongst the cities, even without APC's, Striders, Air Support and an Artificial Intelligence directing their teams..

The Combine were already in the process of leveling C17 before the Citadel was damaged (by Gordon, not the rebels) and it was the Combine that ultimately detonated the Citadel core. To the Combine the Citadel was expendable, to the humans all the lives that were lost were not. Obviously both factions had to evacuate the City but the difference is that the humans desperately fled the city while under Combine fire, while the Combine marched out with the intent to exterminate, this is blatantly shown.

No, the Combine still have humanity hopelessly outmanned and outgunned with dozens if not hundreds more armies and Citadels at their disposal, not to mention the local advisors are now fully online. Both the Borealis and Mossman are either captured or about to be captured by the Combine and with that technology they can reopen their link to the larger forces once more. Only Gordon can stop them.

I won't pretend that the other resistence members are useless but they have little to no hope of matching the Combine long term without Gordon and his supernatural backing. This is shown many times throughout the game, the rebels are regularly dipicted as being ineffective against the Combine. They're outnumbered and are shown having a lot of difficulty with any of the larger Combine forces, rely heavily on Gordon almost all the time and are blatantly shown getting slaughtered in several instances. Their use of guerrilla tactics gives them an edge to an extent but they have no real endgame without Gordon, they couldn't even penetrate a Citadel, let alone destroy one.

[Marcus Astronomius]

Sovereign a écrit :

The Combine were already in the process of leveling C17 before the Citadel was damaged (by Gordon, not the rebels) and it was the Combine that ultimately detonated the Citadel core. To the Combine the Citadel was expendable, to the humans all the lives that were lost were not. Obviously both factions had to evacuate the City but the difference is that the humans desperately fled the city while under Combine fire, while the Combine marched out with the intent to exterminate, this is blatantly shown.

No, the Combine still have humanity hopelessly outmanned and outgunned with dozens if not hundreds more armies and Citadels at their disposal, not to mention the local advisors are now fully online.

I am pretty sure while the Combine were not as quick to leave the City due to more control over logistics, they also wanted to try and contain any resistance spillover from the fate of the city and also try and stop Gordon from leaving, which would make their objectives much more complicated if he succeeded.

The Combine were definitely destroying some of City 17, possibly to create a no man's land between the citadel and the rest of the city. The destruction of the citadel was in response to Gordon's infiltration into the Citadel and the portal being destroyed that Breen was going to use. If this didn't happen, then the Combine would probably have attempted to preserve the Citadel.

I think the Combine are definitely in a compromised state on earth, and the Citadel's sacrifice was to get that portal open in desperation to call in reinforcements (it was going to blow up anyways because of Gordon's work). If Earth was occupied enough by the Combine, I am sure they would have called in extra help from other city garrisons for Anticitizen One.

The Citadel can be seen clearly serving as a major base of operations, a manufacturing facility and much more. It is important enough the Combine cleared the inner part of the city with those giant walls to give it some clearance and serve as a protective barrier with a "sterilized" interior real estate for Combine structural expansion or defense.

Also, don't forget that in spite of Gordon's capabilites, he did rely on the Black Mesa team to progress in some areas and even the Rebels.

[Sovereign]

Marcus Aurelius a écrit :

Sovereign a écrit :

The Combine were already in the process of leveling C17 before the Citadel was damaged (by Gordon, not the rebels) and it was the Combine that ultimately detonated the Citadel core. To the Combine the Citadel was expendable, to the humans all the lives that were lost were not. Obviously both factions had to evacuate the City but the difference is that the humans desperately fled the city while under Combine fire, while the Combine marched out with the intent to exterminate, this is blatantly shown.

No, the Combine still have humanity hopelessly outmanned and outgunned with dozens if not hundreds more armies and Citadels at their disposal, not to mention the local advisors are now fully online.

I am pretty sure while the Combine were not as quick to leave the City due to more control over logistics, they also wanted to try and contain any resistance spillover from the fate of the city and also try and stop Gordon from leaving, which would make their objectives much more complicated.

The Combine were definitely destroying some of City 17, possibly to create a no man's land between the citadel and the rest of the city. The destruction of the citadel was in response to Gordon's infiltration into the Citadel and the portal being destroyed that Breen was going to use. If this didn't happen, then the Combine would probably have attempted to preserve the Citadel.

If the Combine had more citadels and more forces, why did they not respond during the insurrection in City 17? Gordon Freedom is a primary threat or target to the Combine on earth, they wouldn't just give him a sideways stare and dispatch some units here and there, especially if the situation got out of hand.

I think the Combine are definitely in a compromised state on earth, and the Citadel's sacrifice was to get that portal open in desperation to call in reinforcements. If Earth was occupied enough by the Combine, I am sure they would have called in extra help from other city garrisons for Anticitizen One.

The Citadel can be seen clearly serving as a major base of operations, a manufacturing facility and much more. It is important enough the Combine cleared the inner part of the city with those giant walls to give it some clearance and serve as a protective barrier with a "sterilized" interior real estate for Combine structural expansion or defense.

I was refering to the state that both factions left the city in, not how long it took. That being said the Combine could leave far quicker then the rebels as they had ships and other transport. The Combine we're speeding up the Core's detonation so clearly time wasn't a concern for them.

Yes obviouly they wouldn't have destroyed the Citadel if Gordon hadn't damaged it. My point was that they did, not why they did.

The Combine do have other Citadels on Earth, that is simply canonical fact. While they recognise Gordon as a potential threat that doesn't mean they are going to mobilise the whole planet against him at first and by the time the Citadel was destroyed it was already too late. HL2 is still a videogame and game still needs to be balanced and beatable, yes realistically the Combine could have sent a dozen gunships to kill Freeman rather then just one or two at a time but then the game wouldn't be playable. Valve themselves have said that sometimes story consistency has to be sacrificed for the sake of the gameplay. A good example of this would be the White Forest battle, originally there was supposed to be soldiers and gunships in that battle attacking with the striders and hunters all simultaneously, but they found it made the fight too confusing and obnoxious to play as well as being too technically demanding on the engine so they were cut.

Gordon has damaged them yes but apart from the global teleportation grid being temporarily knocked out there is no evidence to suggest that the Combine are "in a compromised state" across the entire planet. The Combine aren't calling for reinforcements out of desperation but rather for extermination. They have run out of patience for humanity and are simply going to wipe them out, this is stated by both Breen and Eli. The Combine forces on Earth are just a small garrison and aren't effectively equipped for such an action so they are bringing in a larger fleet to sterilize the planet.

Assuming they didn't actually bring forces from other sectors (which we have no evidence of one way or the other), they probably didn't need to. A single Citadel has enough forces to quell the local rebels, they hand't even deployed the C17 Citadel's full compliment before Gordon entered. It's after the Citadel was damaged that things started to fall apart. The Combine we fight in game are all from Sector 17 Overwatch and there are at least 27 Overwatch sectors on Earth.

The area around the Citadel was cleared by the tower's teleportation event, the walls were installed after though yes they are slowly consuming the city. Yes the Citadels are important hubs for the Combine forces and the C17's citadel was central command but there are dozens of other citadels on earth, the advisors stationed there all survived and at the end of the day they are still just mass produced and expendable military assets that the Combine can simply build more of. The actual problem was the teleportation grid going down, not the tower being destroyed.