Why are the ragdoll physics in the older versions of HL2 so different?

[Hossenfeffer]

Hi.
Is there any reason as to why ragdoll physics were more "expressive" and intense in the older versions of HL2? In the current versions, the ragdolls appear to simply flop to the floor, assuming they haven't eaten an SMG grenade or have been blasted by a shotgun. However, in the older versions, the ragdolls get slightly launched in a seemingly random direction, even when killed by the pistol. Does anyone know why this is?

[Ghidrah1]

You consider the older physics superior to the current?

[spade]

updates to the source engine screwed with the ragdoll physics thus they're absolutely horrendous now

Originally posted by Ghidrah1:

You consider the older physics superior to the current?

objectively yes, you've clearly never played the original build if you disagree. ragdolls simply fall limp when they die which looks like trash.

[Sovereign]

I've played the game since launch and the ragdolls haven't changed much. Are you sure you weren't playing with a mod? I've seen mods that can do this.

[Sikobae]

I remember a similar comparison being made for CS Source a while ago. Yup. Probably the update. 357 should still launch bodies though.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Sikobae:

I remember a similar comparison being made for CS Source a while ago. Yup. Probably the update. 357 should still launch bodies though.

As will the shotgun, crossbow, grav gun and any explosive.

[spade]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

I've played the game since launch and the ragdolls haven't changed much. Are you sure you weren't playing with a mod? I've seen mods that can do this.

get the retail build, shoot a soldier in the chest with the smg, then do the same in the current build

or i'll do it for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPMb11Lj0vU&feature=youtu.be

[Ghidrah1]

No, I never played the original 1998 pc version of HL; I played the HL game offered by steam in 2016. I didn’t play HL2 until 06-07 on the Xbox and was under whelmed with it, not because of the game but because of the Xbox controller; all console controllers are too sloppy. FPSs should only be played on a desktop with a mouse for the sake of precision.

My point is whatever the age or number of updates HL had or didn’t have up to 2016, the version of it I played provided no discernable improvements in the physics over HL2 or its update, nothing that made me come close to thinking wow what the hell happened to HL2, HL1 is definitely superior to mediocre “IT”.

P.S. And after watching the minvid I still don't see you point, you're really stretching it.

[CoreRelief]

Ragdolls seem fine to me.

They tend to fling about most of the time, sometimes even landing in some pretty damn funny positions.

[spade]

Originally posted by Ghidrah1:

No, I never played the original 1998 pc version of HL; I played the HL game offered by steam in 2016. I didn’t play HL2 until 06-07 on the Xbox and was under whelmed with it, not because of the game but because of the Xbox controller; all console controllers are too sloppy. FPSs should only be played on a desktop with a mouse for the sake of precision.

My point is whatever the age or number of updates HL had or didn’t have up to 2016, the version of it I played provided no discernable improvements in the physics over HL2 or its update, nothing that made me come close to thinking wow what the hell happened to HL2, HL1 is definitely superior to mediocre “IT”.

P.S. And after watching the minvid I still don't see you point, you're really stretching it.

i'm not stretching anything, updates to the source engine designed to supplement csgo/tf2 have screwed with hl2 in a number of ways, the effects on ragdolls are clearly unintentional as the limbs look retarded and unrealistic, and there are no death sequences where they fly back when gunned down by the smg/non-heavy guns or have the part shot react heavily unlike the original build

from 0:54 onward you can see how awkward the limbs look on the ragdolls on every death except second to last, both how they fall and how they lie, they are not as intended and look quite bad once you start to notice them

Originally posted by Mariotom555:

Ragdolls seem fine to me.

They tend to fling about most of the time, sometimes even landing in some pretty damn funny positions.

that's not how they were intended to work, they were originally quite realistic as opposed to acting like they have unrealistic limb spasms after getting shot down, though they of course still went flying with explosions/shotgun/magnum as they do now but they had non-broken effects for regular guns that made it feel more like you were shooting them as opposed to giving them a heart attack

Originally posted by DevinCyanide:

Originally posted by Halagini:

get the retail build, shoot a soldier in the chest with the smg, then do the same in the current build

or i'll do it for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPMb11Lj0vU&feature=youtu.be

wow what the hell happened

right

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Halagini:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

I've played the game since launch and the ragdolls haven't changed much. Are you sure you weren't playing with a mod? I've seen mods that can do this.

get the retail build, shoot a soldier in the chest with the smg, then do the same in the current build

or i'll do it for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPMb11Lj0vU&feature=youtu.be

Yeah I know what it looks like, I Just don't see much of a difference, especially when the enemy is moving or hit with anything stronger then the SMG or pistol. I thought the OP was talking about something significant.

If you want I could ask the Update dev if he could somehow "fix" this in the next version of Update for you.

P.S: What was that weird power tool sound drowning out your video?

[Ghidrah1]

Your “rag doll” blow back reaction is a Hollywood affectation not reality based. A 30-06 boat tail (drag cutting aid) and velocity, (2500 + fps) over its weight, (180gr) provides an impact event of 2500 + ft lbs with an impact footprint of at most 3/32” at 100 yds. Unarmored, it exits nearly unchanged and the subject drops like a sack of potatoes. Soft armor, might tilt subject back like falling tree mid torso, hard armor to mid torso likely push subject back off feet due to projectile deformation spreading the impact load over a wider area.

[picklas]

I just happen to notice that this conversation is about how funny dead bodies are when you kill them.

[spade]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Originally posted by Halagini:

get the retail build, shoot a soldier in the chest with the smg, then do the same in the current build

or i'll do it for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPMb11Lj0vU&feature=youtu.be

Yeah I know what it looks like, I Just don't see much of a difference, especially when the enemy is moving or hit with anything stronger then the SMG or pistol. I thought the OP was talking about something significant.

If you want I could ask the Update dev if he could somehow "fix" this in the next version of Update for you.

P.S: What was that weird power tool sound drowning out your video?

yes but the point is that it is noticeable and present when using one of the non-♥♥♥♥ weapons (half-life 2 has very poor weapon balance, not even compared to hl1 but nearly any fps released before 2006)

also the music is sargeist - a spell to awaken the temple

Originally posted by Ghidrah1:

Your “rag doll” blow back reaction is a Hollywood affectation not reality based. A 30-06 boat tail (drag cutting aid) and velocity, (2500 + fps) over its weight, (180gr) provides an impact event of 2500 + ft lbs with an impact footprint of at most 3/32” at 100 yds. Unarmored, it exits nearly unchanged and the subject drops like a sack of potatoes. Soft armor, might tilt subject back like falling tree mid torso, hard armor to mid torso likely push subject back off feet due to projectile deformation spreading the impact load over a wider area.

okay but disregarding this the point is that updates to the engine ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with the physics and the target actually reacting to getting shot is objectively superior to limply falling and wildly flailing limbs with legs almost always ending backwards for some reason, thus trying to argue the current effect is better makes little sense because it's unintentional assuming you are attempting to argue this

Originally posted by DevinCyanide:

you can just recompile the model with slightly decreased mass and use the .phy from that. not hard

i tried importing the .phy file from the 2004 build and it had no effect, sad. however it does prove that these changes are due to unintended engine updates, as they have not touched the .phy file since 2004

[spade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb_7qwd0jmM

in-depth comparison

[Saul Goodman]

The old ragdolls probably didn't move as natural as a human would back then, which could give more expression. I think hl2 beta ragdolls had this issue, also with limbs going inside the torso.
Or this might be bad asset ports to Gmod.

playermodels for example Chell from portal, the limbs move in unnatural ways as a ragdoll Probably because the model was never meant to ragdoll in the first place, and only be the player model.