Dogmatic = evil?

[SoundsOfNight]

I'm sure killing a lot of ppl!

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Yep. Every path in this game is a radicalized extreme of varying degrees of evil—as toted by GW themselves, the Imperium is a monstrous civilisation. Any one kidding themselves that they're playing a "good guy" has it all wrong. The Imperium itself is a satire.

The good guys are few and far between, Dogmatic is just another piece of meat for the grinder in that monstrous galaxy-spanning civilisation, Iconoclast is the idealist and pragmatist (where it's a gamble), and Heretic is self-explanatory.

The only "good guys" in 40k are very few and far in-between (Guilliman post-resurrection (openly hated the Ecclesiarchy but had to be talked out of it, Celestine being one of those who stopped him from starting a civil war), Starchild (the good half of the Emperor that has grown into its own being in the warp is benevolent and very much unlike the cruel counterpart stuck on the throne)).

Iconoclast is definitely NOT the pragmatic side of this, it's just naive.
1. Spare Chaos worshipers because they say they won't do Chaos anymore.
2. Spare xeno and let them co-exist and rule over the planet.
3. And the final gambit use a C'Tan god to protect his newfound empire, 100% completely obvious to what a a C'tan can do.

A Dogmatic character is actually more pragmatic since he doesn't take stupid chances and get brutal to make sure things are peaceful and in order.

I agree that Iconoclast is not pragmatic at all, Dogmatic is pragmatic.
Iconoclast options are more idealistic, than pragmatic, by a wide margin. The pragmatic answer is often the brutal and honest one, that brings pain to the few, for the benefit of the many.

[Narky]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Yep. Every path in this game is a radicalized extreme of varying degrees of evil—as toted by GW themselves, the Imperium is a monstrous civilisation. Any one kidding themselves that they're playing a "good guy" has it all wrong. The Imperium itself is a satire.

The good guys are few and far between, Dogmatic is just another piece of meat for the grinder in that monstrous galaxy-spanning civilisation, Iconoclast is the idealist and pragmatist (where it's a gamble), and Heretic is self-explanatory.

The only "good guys" in 40k are very few and far in-between (Guilliman post-resurrection (openly hated the Ecclesiarchy but had to be talked out of it, Celestine being one of those who stopped him from starting a civil war), Starchild (the good half of the Emperor that has grown into its own being in the warp is benevolent and very much unlike the cruel counterpart stuck on the throne)).

Iconoclast is definitely NOT the pragmatic side of this, it's just naive.
1. Spare Chaos worshipers because they say they won't do Chaos anymore.
2. Spare xeno and let them co-exist and rule over the planet.
3. And the final gambit use a C'Tan god to protect his newfound empire, 100% completely obvious to what a a C'tan can do.

A Dogmatic character is actually more pragmatic since he doesn't take stupid chances and get brutal to make sure things are peaceful and in order.

Well you've only done one playthrough and it was Dogmatic, so it shows. Most everyone barring Marazhai who you spare doesn't bite you in the ass enough to cause backfire.

The people on the ship you rescue in act 1?

They're not heretics - they were affected by witnessing the death of a planet via the Warp. They start committing suicide and you get the option to watch over them for their own safety.

If you really play a Dogmatic char, you basically shoot any one that breaks the Lex Imperialis or doesn't follow the faith.

The entire ship ends up adoring you for your choices—including a change of thematics for the ship's interior and lots of glittery decor dissimilar to Dogmatic which takes on a more gothic apparel.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Corridian:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

The Imperium are the good guys, and Mankind's only option.
Everything else is flowery nonsense, and the philosophical ramblings of maddened farseers.

Ridiculous comment lol

The Imperium makes Nazi Germany look good.
No way to sugar coat that.

No, it does not.

The Imperium are the good guys. They are the only thing keeping Mankind from going extinct, like the Eldar are.

[Narky]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Corridian:

Ridiculous comment lol

The Imperium makes Nazi Germany look good.
No way to sugar coat that.

No, it does not.

The Imperium are the good guys. They are the only thing keeping Mankind from going extinct, like the Eldar are.

GW's own words - they're not good guys. Found in my post on the first page—they even follow up with saying it's a monstrous, hateful civilization.

Enough said.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Originally posted by REhorror:

Iconoclast is definitely NOT the pragmatic side of this, it's just naive.
1. Spare Chaos worshipers because they say they won't do Chaos anymore.
2. Spare xeno and let them co-exist and rule over the planet.
3. And the final gambit use a C'Tan god to protect his newfound empire, 100% completely obvious to what a a C'tan can do.

A Dogmatic character is actually more pragmatic since he doesn't take stupid chances and get brutal to make sure things are peaceful and in order.

Well you've only done one playthrough and it was Dogmatic, so it shows. Most everyone barring Marazhai who you spare doesn't bite you in the ass enough to cause backfire.

The entire ship ends up adoring you for your choices—including a change of thematics for the ship's interior and lots of glittery decor dissimilar to Dogmatic which takes on a more gothic apparel.

So...I was pragmatic then?

Since I choose the hard choices but I get all the good endings to show for it.

And I honestly don't need an entire ship to adore me (that is cringe as heck), I just millions to chant my name as the Warden of the Expanse and Chaos vanquished in my run.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

No, it does not.

The Imperium are the good guys. They are the only thing keeping Mankind from going extinct, like the Eldar are.

GW's own words - they're not good guys.

Enough said.

I do not care, they are the good guys.
Authors do not get to decide the morality of their stories.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

No, it does not.

The Imperium are the good guys. They are the only thing keeping Mankind from going extinct, like the Eldar are.

GW's own words - they're not good guys.

Enough said.

Good thing we have something called Death of the Author to show for it, authors can be stupid too, see Alan Moore.

When we even have Orks siding with the Imperium, you know how good they actually are.

[Narky]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Well you've only done one playthrough and it was Dogmatic, so it shows. Most everyone barring Marazhai who you spare doesn't bite you in the ass enough to cause backfire.

The entire ship ends up adoring you for your choices—including a change of thematics for the ship's interior and lots of glittery decor dissimilar to Dogmatic which takes on a more gothic apparel.

So...I was pragmatic then?

Since I choose the hard choices but I get all the good endings to show for it.

And I honestly don't need an entire ship to adore me (that is cringe as heck), I just millions to chant my name as the Warden of the Expanse and Chaos vanquished in my run.

Meanwhile I went Iconoclast and got nothing but good endings. /shrug. Including the Vanquishing of a C'tan Shard and Chaos expelled from the realm with Necron Tech with Nomos (who has the POWER of a C'tan) that is quote unquote "your blood", and is loyal only to you.

You end up known to the survivors of Crudurach and Craftworld Alaitoc as one of the "good guys".

Iconoclast is a gamble which in this circumstance, played out to the RT's benefit.

[Corridian]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Corridian:

Ridiculous comment lol

The Imperium makes Nazi Germany look good.
No way to sugar coat that.

No, it does not.

The Imperium are the good guys. They are the only thing keeping Mankind from going extinct, like the Eldar are.

You're just clown farming now!!!
The Imperium is quite possibly the MOST evil government out in 40k ville
The Tau probably have a much more legit claim on moral high ground, but even that is debatable. At least they start with the desire to seek the Common Good.

[Narky]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Black Magic:

GW's own words - they're not good guys.

Enough said.

I do not care, they are the good guys.
Authors do not get to decide the morality of their stories.

Neither do fans. But the actual creators of 40k hold more water than you ever will. Shame.

Boohoo.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Originally posted by REhorror:

So...I was pragmatic then?

Since I choose the hard choices but I get all the good endings to show for it.

And I honestly don't need an entire ship to adore me (that is cringe as heck), I just millions to chant my name as the Warden of the Expanse and Chaos vanquished in my run.

Meanwhile I went Iconoclast and got nothing but good endings. /shrug. Including the Vanquishing of a C'tan Shard and Chaos expelled from the realm with Necron Tech with Nomos (who has the POWER of a C'tan) that is quote unquote "your blood", and is loyal only to you.

Iconoclast is a gamble which in this circumstance, played out to the RT's benefit.

Really now? If you go Iconoclast, you would spare Rykard Minoris, meaning you'd have a Daemon world in your end.

And a C'tan god would slowly corrupt your mind and sell you your flesh, as they did with the Necron.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Originally posted by Black Magic:

GW's own words - they're not good guys.

Enough said.

Good thing we have something called Death of the Author to show for it, authors can be stupid too, see Alan Moore.

When we even have Orks siding with the Imperium, you know how good they actually are.

Look, it is simple. Authors write the stories, but do not get to decide the impact of them, or how they will be percieved, specially from a moral point of view.

The Imperium allows Mankind to survive AND be the greater civilization on the galaxy. Without them, Humanity would go extinct, slowly but surely.
That makes them good guys in my book!

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Corridian:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

No, it does not.

The Imperium are the good guys. They are the only thing keeping Mankind from going extinct, like the Eldar are.

You're just clown farming now!!!
The Imperium is quite possibly the MOST evil government out in 40k ville
The Tau probably have a much more legit claim on moral high ground, but even that is debatable. At least they start with the desire to seek the Common Good.

Really now, Imperium more evil than Chaos or Dark Eldar?

The Tau can be arguably considered good, but they are so far away and are now mired in civil war, exactly the way Imperium had it.

[Narky]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by REhorror:

Good thing we have something called Death of the Author to show for it, authors can be stupid too, see Alan Moore.

When we even have Orks siding with the Imperium, you know how good they actually are.

Look, it is simple. Authors write the stories, but do not get to decide the impact of them, or how they will be percieved, specially from a moral point of view.

The Imperium allows Mankind to survive AND be the greater civilization on the galaxy. Without them, Humanity would go extinct, slowly but surely.
That makes them good guys in my book!

Orkz side wherever the best fighting is to be had, lol. They literally don't care. You can even hire Ork mercenaries.

Not a very good example.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by REhorror:

Good thing we have something called Death of the Author to show for it, authors can be stupid too, see Alan Moore.

When we even have Orks siding with the Imperium, you know how good they actually are.

Look, it is simple. Authors write the stories, but do not get to decide the impact of them, or how they will be percieved, specially from a moral point of view.

The Imperium allows Mankind to survive AND be the greater civilization on the galaxy. Without them, Humanity would go extinct, slowly but surely.
That makes them good guys in my book!

Funny how these anti-Dogmatic posters usually back to authority (authors) to even make their point.

They might last days or months in the Imperium, but minutes or seconds if under Chaos or Tyranid.