Anyone else find it difficult to be "evil" in RPGs these days?

[Wuorg]

For my second playthrough I thought it would be fun to be a heretical pyro psyker bladedancer/executioner. The build is really fun (and pretty OP), but that's besides the point lol.

I remember playing games like Kotor 1/2, NWN 1/2, Jade Empire, and Mass Effect 1/2/3 (and so on) and finding the "bad guy" paths to be really entertaining. I've always preferred to play the good guy in RPGs, but was still able to get a hoot out of the opposite approach up until...I'm not sure when? Now I really have to push myself and build up to pretty much every "evil" choice (even for Dogmatic ones, as the case may be). Have game writing paradigms changed or have I just gotten older and more mature lol.

[Kindred Spirit]

n#n#m# lähetti viestin:

CoerciveUtopian lähetti viestin:

Have to disagree with you here. It's not "naive" to think that maybe a xenos will end up being an ally and help you save a planet.

In this setting it absolutely is, WH40K is no Mass Effect

Indeed.
Your average drukhari makes Saren Arterius' speciesism look like Mr. Rogers.
The rest aren't much nicer, especially to each other, or to your genes.
This is the war that is in the title.

It is difficult to have a good metric of good and evil when everyone on the field tend to be casually throwing around world-ending weapons.

jonoliveira12 lähetti viestin:

Not when, for about 10K years of recorded History, everyone different from you DID try to wipe out your entire species, or reduce it to chattel.

Also a very good point. Where are all these hippie orks?

[KoboldUtopian]

Kindred Spirit lähetti viestin:

n#n#m# lähetti viestin:

In this setting it absolutely is, WH40K is no Mass Effect

Indeed.
Your average drukhari makes Saren Arterius' speciesism look like Mr. Rogers.
The rest aren't much nicer, especially to each other, or to your genes.
This is the war that is in the title.

It is difficult to have a good metric of good and evil when everyone on the field tend to be casually throwing around world-ending weapons.

jonoliveira12 lähetti viestin:

Not when, for about 10K years of recorded History, everyone different from you DID try to wipe out your entire species, or reduce it to chattel.

Also a very good point. Where are all these hippie orks?

Perhaps, and I know war is the point of the setting so we can play with toy soldiers, if people stopped being bastards and murdering each other on sight there would be a chance. And it's not to say that you should try to be friends with everyone, but pretending that in trillions of individuals in a species every single one is a murder hobo is a terrible philosophy.

Believing that all strangers are out to get you and it's ok to preemptively murder them is evil, and a terrible way to build a society. No wonder the Imperium is stuck in a 10,000 year dark age.

Also all Orks are hippies, they are just here for a good time :)

[Kindred Spirit]

CoerciveUtopian lähetti viestin:

Believing that all strangers are out to get you and it's ok to preemptively murder them is evil, and a terrible way to build a society. No wonder the Imperium is stuck in a 10,000 year dark age.

Welcome to where most others were at BEFORE mankind found the stars.

In fact, that's pretty much the prime resentment of eldar towards mon-keighs.
Imagine having your entire civilization go Slaanesh-shaped into the Eye of Terror and then seeing a bunch of primate come along and claim they own anything.

[Gorwe]

jonoliveira12 lähetti viestin:

Gorwe lähetti viestin:

All the way until GW realizes the untapped potential of such a faction(RT, Farsight). If they do, expect it being monetized.

They don't care as long as it makes $$$.

They will not humanize Chaos. Chaos needs to be psychotic and cartoonishly evil, in order for anything else in the setting to make sense.

Chaos characters will all be mustache twirlers, or strident madmen forever.

Who said anything about Chaos? I gave you perfect examples of factions which are quite fringe, yet have quite some potential.

[jonoliveira12]

CoerciveUtopian lähetti viestin:

Kindred Spirit lähetti viestin:

Indeed.
Your average drukhari makes Saren Arterius' speciesism look like Mr. Rogers.
The rest aren't much nicer, especially to each other, or to your genes.
This is the war that is in the title.

It is difficult to have a good metric of good and evil when everyone on the field tend to be casually throwing around world-ending weapons.



Also a very good point. Where are all these hippie orks?

Perhaps, and I know war is the point of the setting so we can play with toy soldiers, if people stopped being bastards and murdering each other on sight there would be a chance. And it's not to say that you should try to be friends with everyone, but pretending that in trillions of individuals in a species every single one is a murder hobo is a terrible philosophy.

Believing that all strangers are out to get you and it's ok to preemptively murder them is evil, and a terrible way to build a society. No wonder the Imperium is stuck in a 10,000 year dark age.

Also all Orks are hippies, they are just here for a good time :)

Nope.
Anything you stop shooting at, will see it as a weakness, and kill you.
40K is a universe with apex predators and nothing else. Only the most brutal survive.

[jonoliveira12]

Gorwe lähetti viestin:

jonoliveira12 lähetti viestin:

They will not humanize Chaos. Chaos needs to be psychotic and cartoonishly evil, in order for anything else in the setting to make sense.

Chaos characters will all be mustache twirlers, or strident madmen forever.

Who said anything about Chaos? I gave you perfect examples of factions which are quite fringe, yet have quite some potential.

Well, I was talking about Chaos.

[Gorwe]

jonoliveira12 lähetti viestin:

CoerciveUtopian lähetti viestin:

Perhaps, and I know war is the point of the setting so we can play with toy soldiers, if people stopped being bastards and murdering each other on sight there would be a chance. And it's not to say that you should try to be friends with everyone, but pretending that in trillions of individuals in a species every single one is a murder hobo is a terrible philosophy.

Believing that all strangers are out to get you and it's ok to preemptively murder them is evil, and a terrible way to build a society. No wonder the Imperium is stuck in a 10,000 year dark age.

Also all Orks are hippies, they are just here for a good time :)

Nope.
Anything you stop shooting at, will see it as a weakness, and kill you.
40K is a universe with apex predators and nothing else. Only the most brutal survive.

And they gasp and wonder when I say it is a braindead setting. Don't be fooled by all the embelishments. It's all there just to sell toy soldiers. And to facilitate as much battle as possible.

Don't mean it's bad per se, but it is to the point and simple.

[jonoliveira12]

Gorwe lähetti viestin:

jonoliveira12 lähetti viestin:

Nope.
Anything you stop shooting at, will see it as a weakness, and kill you.
40K is a universe with apex predators and nothing else. Only the most brutal survive.

And they gasp and wonder when I say it is a braindead setting. Don't be fooled by all the embelishments. It's all there just to sell toy soldiers. And to facilitate as much battle as possible.

Don't mean it's bad per se, but it is to the point and simple.

You know what is a braindead setting? Star Trek.
A lot of well wishing and ideology, no real science or diplomacy anywhere to be seen.

[Gorwe]

jonoliveira12 lähetti viestin:

Gorwe lähetti viestin:

And they gasp and wonder when I say it is a braindead setting. Don't be fooled by all the embelishments. It's all there just to sell toy soldiers. And to facilitate as much battle as possible.

Don't mean it's bad per se, but it is to the point and simple.

You know what is a braindead setting? Star Trek.
A lot of well wishing and ideology, no real science or diplomacy anywhere to be seen.

Have you actually watched anything except Discovery?

I know that a lot of things can be said and levelled against ST, but it casts a long shadow. To the point of influencing real life. So, let me ask you this:

What has 40k influenced or predicted?

It's a dumb blonde(or in this case, dumb goth), but that's ok. Sometimes that's just what you are looking for.

[✧Starshadow Melody✧]

n#n#m# lähetti viestin:

CoerciveUtopian lähetti viestin:

Have to disagree with you here. It's not "naive" to think that maybe a xenos will end up being an ally and help you save a planet.

In this setting it absolutely is

Huge failure of the setting, to be honest.

[n#n#m#]

✧Starshadow Melody✧ lähetti viestin:

n#n#m# lähetti viestin:

In this setting it absolutely is

Huge failure of the setting, to be honest.

To each their own, after chilling in SW and ME fandoms for years I find ruthlessness of Warhammer refreshing.

[Gorwe]

✧Starshadow Melody✧ lähetti viestin:

n#n#m# lähetti viestin:

In this setting it absolutely is

Huge failure of the setting, to be honest.

As I keep saying, you need to keep in mind what the goal for this setting is. And what its mother company's business is. And as such, it is a huge success.

Do I like it? Generally no, mostly because as Fantasy, AoS etc show, you don't need to be a complete douche or even worse to have a proper, fulfilling wargame setting.

But, hey, different tastes. Some might like tits more, others buttocks and third group something different altogether. As long as it serves its purpose and makes someone happy ... that's all there's to it. And $$$ in this case, ofc.

[jonoliveira12]

n#n#m# lähetti viestin:

✧Starshadow Melody✧ lähetti viestin:

Huge failure of the setting, to be honest.

To each their own, after chilling in SW and ME fandoms for years I find ruthlessness of Warhammer refreshing.

[Kindred Spirit]

Yes, this setting has been about war and all the silly and terrible things about it.

Those who don't like subtext to field entire armies full of war crimes can go find something else. D&D sounds about their speed as their ork-lovers already empathize with explicitly evil races.

They don't need to take this franchise with them in their confusion in trying to find what they want, so it's best to wish them happy trails in finding something that better suits their tastes.

OR

They can start reading the source materials and supporting materials, of the theme of how it is to be truly trapped in a war, to be the heroes who suffer for trying to do any bit of good despite the greater evils around them.

Gaunt's Ghosts are a decent start for that. Heroes trapped in Hell.
What is murder in that setting? Just another body count.

It's a little bleaker than most RPG carebears are used to, but that's the point.

[Toaster Maximus]

Find it quite easy depending on the to the type of evil. This game has two evil paths and one good one oddly