Execution (non-pyro) builds?

[Lord_Eol]

So we all knew Execution was going to be trash given DOT is generally worthless but it can kind of work if you make the navigator or a pyro psyker one (or a dedicated grenade slinger) as both have large AOE's than can inflict DOT but anyone else found a build that works? BIomancer doesn't have a mass AOE poison/toxin ability and I can't even imagine how to get some of the other DOT affects (other than fire) on a regular basis. Is the class even more worthless than I imagine or did somebody come up w/ a clever build that isn't fire based (navigator/flamer/pyro) or grenade based. I don't care if it's suboptimal as long as it's not "bad"

[Balekai]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/2186680/discussions/0/4840896974229182869/

The beginning of my Sanctic Blade Dancer Executioner build is posted in that topic. It will use Sword of Faith Cone and Line melee attacks for mass Toxin AoE, using Cone attack like Cassia's Gaze attacks. Toxin can easily be propagated with Death in the Air talent as well.

Executioner is not trash as the Archetype has non-attack abilities that cause existing DoT to instantly cause their damage along with other effects, and/or on hit cause 3 more instances of all existing DoTs on target to damage instantly. I have a list of some of the one's I will be working into that build in the link above. The damage scaling the Executoner can offer for normal attacks and DoT synergy is actually insane.

Edit:

It's also good to narrow down the info and have a good look at it all (as opposed to looking at everything in game which is hard lol):

Link to a wiki page on Executioner where you can clearly read their Abilties:
https://roguetrader.wiki.fextralife.com/Executioner#:~:text=Executioner%20is%20a%20Tier%20II%20Archetype%20in%20Rogue

Abilities (scroll down and search Executioner in the search function):

https://roguetrader.wiki.fextralife.com/Abilities#:~:text=What%20are%20Abilities%20in%20Rogue%20Trader?%20Abilities%20are

Talents (search executioner again):
https://roguetrader.wiki.fextralife.com/Talents#:~:text=Talents%20are%20passive%20abilities%20that%20can%20be%20unlocked

That's at least how I got my head around everything along with discussing here on these forums.

[Lord_Eol]

Originally posted by Balekai:

Executioner is not trash as the Archetype has non-attack abilities that cause existing DoT to instantly cause their damage along with other effects, and/or on hit cause 3 more instances of all existing DoTs on target to damage instantly.

I think you are missing (or maybe I'm reading it wrong) nearly all Executioner DOT abilities say "DOT CAUSED BY THE EXECUTIONER", so DOT caused by your allies fails which I think is a fatal flaw to the class. As for the "three" thing, by the time my enemy has three DOT affects it's already dead, nobody outside a boss is getting hit more than twice, much less three times and surviving.

It's actually my qualm with the new DOT abilities, they really should have made it a (and called it something other than Executioner) a mass AOE DOT class, i.e. a entire map affect that says something like: 1 AP "give all enemy units X DOT affect" (and make one per type of DOT) and then subsequent abilities can build on that so it basically creates a inevitability / timer class, i.e. "if match runs turn 10, I will eventually DOT every non-boss unit on the map to death affected since turn 1"

[Balekai]

Originally posted by Lord_Eol:

Originally posted by Balekai:

Executioner is not trash as the Archetype has non-attack abilities that cause existing DoT to instantly cause their damage along with other effects, and/or on hit cause 3 more instances of all existing DoTs on target to damage instantly.

I think you are missing (or maybe I'm reading it wrong) nearly all Executioner DOT abilities say "DOT CAUSED BY THE EXECUTIONER, so DOT caused by your allies fail which I think is a fatal flaw to the class", as for the "three" thing, by the time my enemy has three DOT affects it's already dead, nobody outside a boss is getting hit more than twice, much less three times and surviving. It's actually my qualm with the DOT abilities, they really should have made it a (and called it something other than Executioner) a mass AOE DOT class, i.e. a giant cone (or even 40x40 AOE affects / entire map) that says something like: 1 AP "give all enemy units X DOT affect" (and make one per type of DOT) and then subsequent abilities can build on that so it basically creates a inevitability / timer class, i.e. "if match runs turn 10, I will eventually DOT every unit on the map to death since turn 1"

Nope not using allies just my own DoTs (but some do actually use all DoTs from allies, enemies, bunnies). Like the Gift of Torment ability. All instances of toxin in the battle will give you +1 deflection when that ability is used.

The reference to Cassia was just to compare Sword of Faith's Cone attack to a Cassia Gaze attack for effective range of your now pseudo ranged melee capability. Meaning you can apply mass melee Psi rating based Toxin in mass AoEs or huge lines with Biophysical Distortion + Melee.

The "three thing" I mentioned isn't about having 3 DoTs. "Where it Hurts" makes 3 copies of any existing DoT on a enemy hit with your next attack which will deal the damage of those three copies instantly.

Example:

You have Biophysical Distortion on an enemy, use that ability then attack it and hit. The ability will copy Biophysical Distortion three times and instantly apply their damage for DoT damage, three times.


Now take Pain Resonance ability. You have a whole bunch of enemies in a 4 cell radius with DoTs on them. If you use this ability, they will all suffer an immediate instance of their damage. Basically a instant nuke based on DoT level damage. Not only that, they have to make saves for secondary effects of Blind (from Bleeds), Slow (from burning) or Stagger (from Toxin).

Edit:

The Post you would be most interested in form the link above:

Originally posted by Balekai:

Originally posted by Gengisgame:

That's a brilliantly detailed breakdown, thank you very much.

I don't have me heart set on any specific second archetype but I'm curious why Executioner?

A) the most important reason of all. BECAUSE IT'S NEW!

Actually the reason is the crazy damage scaling, utility and synergy with Bladedancer melee attacks, and partially getting around damage penalty to Blade Dance damage by having those attacks apply highly damaging DoTs, that can be exploited with Executioner abilities that cause existing DoTs to apply the DoT damage instantly.

So between Blade Dance attack, Sword of Faith Area, Line and Cone attacks, Biophysical Distortion Toxin based on Psi Rating on all those hits, bleeds on those hit, enemies getting even more Toxin levels/stacks from Executioners' Death in the Air Talent (toxin scaling off of INT being applied to all enemies within 2 squares of an enemy that just died with a toxin on them), we can proliferate tons of DoTs then cause them to explode as an extra attack on top of everything else with Executioner abilities.

The problem with only showing levels 1-15/17ish is that's the easy part of building the character. It's all feat starvation from thereon and I still haven't figured out how i want to proceed. I want a heal like Light of the Emperor which is the best me on for this character as I will have high resolve but really no Willpower investment. And it benefits the whole part. I want Warp Speed too but Heinrix can take care of that if required.

We really need space for Executioner abilities such as these (in order of most importance with the first two being near equal for CC/self buffing):

Reckless Abandon
The Executioner replaces (30% of their maximum wounds) of their wounds with
the same number of temporary wounds until the end of combat.

While the Executioner has temporary wounds, all of their melee attacks and damage-over-time effects deal an additional +(30% of their maximum wounds)% damage.

Massive damage buff. Like huuge when you have lots of Wounds.

Gift of Torment
Until the start of their next turn, the Executioner gains bonuses to their
parameters for each creature (enemy or ally) in combat suffering from the following
damage-over-time effects:

Bleeding: +(TGH bonus / 2)% armour per creature
Burning: +(TGH bonus / 2)% dodge per creature

Toxin: +1 deflection per creature up to a maximum of TGH bonus.

Extra Deflection scaling off toxins per creature. very nice but I might skip this. We already have Shield of the Emperor for 2-4 Deflection on an Agility dodge character.

Pain Resonance
All enemies suffering from damage-over- time effects in a 4-cell radius around the Executioner immediately suffer an extra instance of damage from these effects.

They must also pass a resistance test with a -(Medicae / 5) penalty or suffer an additional negative effect. The effect and type of the resistance test depend on the initial damage-over-time effect.

Bleeding: Agility resistance test, blinded
Burning: Willpower resistance test, slowed
Toxin: Toughness resistance test, staggered

These additional effects are removed at the start of the Executioner's next turn.

Not only is this basically an extra attack essentially, it's mass disable and debuffing with Bleeding and Toxin everywhere.

Where It Hurts
If the target of the Executioner's next successful attack is under any damage-over-time effects, this target will immediately suffer 3 instances of damage from each of these effects (2 instances if the Executioner makes a burst or area attack).

This damage is dealt after all other effects from the attack are applied. Then, all damage-over-time effects are removed from the target. This ability is applied instead of Scourging Strikes and removes all stacks of Forced Repentance.

The ultimate upfront damaging DoT ability from Executioner and be equal a lot of damage and be yet another pseudo attack.

It's just how do you work all of that into the build and when. Psyker/Bladeancer/Executioner is so talent and ability starved it's not funny. You want everything there is to offer lol.

For more Blade Dancer theorycrafting where I forced most of my ideas:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/2186680/discussions/0/4840896594183811997/