1hand vs 2hand melee

[Rizilliant]

Im struggling to find the benefit to ever using a 1handed melee weapon? I got my first crew up to level 35 before starting over, and ran a melee heavy retinue.. The characters using two handers were regularly superior. You might think having a pistol offhand was useful, to which I simply just use a full sized weapon in the alternate weapon selection.

Can someone perhaps help me see what I am missing? I cant seem to find any benefit to ever using a single melee weapon, or even dual wielding melee weapons, over a two hander,. Even for Kibella, and Abalard

[Kazyu]

Dual-wield lets you do OP debuff stacking with Blade Dancer+Executioner.

Only real use I found for 1 hand + gun, was letting you use the shotgun pistol to knock back (collision damage) + charge. A little extra damage in the early game for Abelard, but falls off hard later in the game.

That's the only combos I know of, but there may be more. There is a lot of quirky items in the game that might make some other funky setups possible.

[dgresevfan]

Pro tip: There's a Drukhari Klaive called Bloodthirster which for no logical reason is ONE HANDED. Other Klaives are two handed power weapons. This one is equally powerful and only one handed so you can put something nasty in the other hand.

[Kazyu]

Originally posted by dgresevfan:

Pro tip: There's a Drukhari Klaive called Bloodthirster which for no logical reason is ONE HANDED. Other Klaives are two handed power weapons. This one is equally powerful and only one handed so you can put something nasty in the other hand.

For real?! That's sick! I have gotten that weapon every play-through, but never realized it was one handed. Going to play with that on my next run. Thanks, dude!

[Rizilliant]

Originally posted by Kazyu:

Dual-wield lets you do OP debuff stacking with Blade Dancer+Executioner.

Only real use I found for 1 hand + gun, was letting you use the shotgun pistol to knock back (collision damage) + charge. A little extra damage in the early game for Abelard, but falls off hard later in the game.

That's the only combos I know of, but there may be more. There is a lot of quirky items in the game that might make some other funky setups possible.

I did see some abilities for Kallista that utilize two weapons, and Death from Above allows for additional hits per use.. But the damage did not seem to be half as good as the 2 handed weapon. I havent yet finished act 2, so have only seen up to lvl 35, but just started over, and wanted to make sure there wasnt something I was missing out on. I think Ill just stick with using 2handers for all the melee classes.

Originally posted by dgresevfan:

Pro tip: There's a Drukhari Klaive called Bloodthirster which for no logical reason is ONE HANDED. Other Klaives are two handed power weapons. This one is equally powerful and only one handed so you can put something nasty in the other hand.

That sounds pretty cool. I was just beginning to see Xeno gear when I started over. As a Dogmatic though, I had ended the special character.. Purge all heretics, mutants, and xenos!

Thank you both for the replies

[Roknar]

I reckon you only want it to trigger more on hit stuff, hence executioner. At the time, for Argenta it was also a way to keep bursting while being locked in melee. The pistol would do way more damage than any melee weapon was capable of.

I would like to experiment with more melee next run though. So far it just seemed far inferior to guns. And both Heinrix and Abelardso for spend an entire turn buffing before they can attack...if they get a turn to begin with. so I haven gotten almost no attack in outside of the beginning.

[dgresevfan]

Originally posted by Kazyu:

Originally posted by dgresevfan:

Pro tip: There's a Drukhari Klaive called Bloodthirster which for no logical reason is ONE HANDED. Other Klaives are two handed power weapons. This one is equally powerful and only one handed so you can put something nasty in the other hand.

For real?! That's sick! I have gotten that weapon every play-through, but never realized it was one handed. Going to play with that on my next run. Thanks, dude!

I used it for several battles myself before noticing the description said it was single handed and did a major double take because that weapon is clearly intended for two hands.

Oh, also regarding the reason for using two single handed weapons... I didn't find it very useful with normal characters, but with Kibellah it lets her apply a disgusting amount of bleed/poison on enemies when she does a blade dance.

[Rizilliant]

Originally posted by Roknar:

I reckon you only want it to trigger more on hit stuff, hence executioner. At the time, for Argenta it was also a way to keep bursting while being locked in melee. The pistol would do way more damage than any melee weapon was capable of.

I would like to experiment with more melee next run though. So far it just seemed far inferior to guns. And both Heinrix and Abelardso for spend an entire turn buffing before they can attack...if they get a turn to begin with. so I haven gotten almost no attack in outside of the beginning.

Ive actually had the opposite experience.. Melee seems far superior, and accurate.. ESPECIALLY with the Bladedancer.. Even Abalard, speccd for Toughness, is doing work. Argenta is doing pretty good now that Ive changhed her over to flame thrower, but Ive been unimpressed with bolters..

I am still relatively early in the game though, so perhaps it changes.

[Hidetsugu]

Originally posted by Hes Your Daddy:

I am still relatively early in the game though, so perhaps it changes.

On what dificulty are you playing? On Unfair, melee users tend to miss semi-regularly (dodge) unless buffed/enemy debuffed, because investing in perception is ineffective and only agi doesn't work so well.

As for bolters - the heavy bolter build needs several soldier, common and arch-millitant traits to start getting in gear, plus some items. I have noticed usually around lvl 26-28 is when it starts shining. And then when 1st lvl Exemplar hits, if you guess the right trait...

[Rizilliant]

Originally posted by Hidetsugu:

Originally posted by Hes Your Daddy:

I am still relatively early in the game though, so perhaps it changes.

On what dificulty are you playing? On Unfair, melee users tend to miss semi-regularly (dodge) unless buffed/enemy debuffed, because investing in perception is ineffective and only agi doesn't work so well.

As for bolters - the heavy bolter build needs several soldier, common and arch-millitant traits to start getting in gear, plus some items. I have noticed usually around lvl 26-28 is when it starts shining. And then when 1st lvl Exemplar hits, if you guess the right trait...

I am now on Unfair, because normal was just ridiculously easy. On Normal, my shooters were missing with regularity, even still at lvl 35.. Which I assume will only worsen on Unfair.. Both Argentina, and a hireling that I made, that was speccd like her, but speccd into heavy bolters, ad opposed to her flame thrower.. I was relying mostly on Warp powers, and melee, and quickly cleaning up in round 1, maybe round 2 if theyre spread out.

[dgresevfan]

Originally posted by Hes Your Daddy:

Originally posted by Roknar:

I reckon you only want it to trigger more on hit stuff, hence executioner. At the time, for Argenta it was also a way to keep bursting while being locked in melee. The pistol would do way more damage than any melee weapon was capable of.

I would like to experiment with more melee next run though. So far it just seemed far inferior to guns. And both Heinrix and Abelardso for spend an entire turn buffing before they can attack...if they get a turn to begin with. so I haven gotten almost no attack in outside of the beginning.

Ive actually had the opposite experience.. Melee seems far superior, and accurate.. ESPECIALLY with the Bladedancer.. Even Abalard, speccd for Toughness, is doing work. Argenta is doing pretty good now that Ive changhed her over to flame thrower, but Ive been unimpressed with bolters..

I am still relatively early in the game though, so perhaps it changes.

With the heavy bolter, Argenta can do vile things.

First she uses the ability that doubles her rate of fire. Then she activates the ability that makes every hit on an enemy do extra status effects like knock downs and stuns.

Then opens fire and empties 16 rounds into the enemy's face at point blank range because I have the ability that lets her use guns in melee range. While laughing maniacally.

Her heroic ability as arch militant lets her do two attacks per turn, every turn after using it. I can get yet another attack off by using rapid fire.

Sometimes that means she's firing over 30 heavy bolter rounds per turn. For enemies resistant to that I have a melta weapon or heavy flamer. I really need to find a better heavy bolter.

[Roknar]

Originally posted by Hes Your Daddy:

Originally posted by Hidetsugu:

On what dificulty are you playing? On Unfair, melee users tend to miss semi-regularly (dodge) unless buffed/enemy debuffed, because investing in perception is ineffective and only agi doesn't work so well.

As for bolters - the heavy bolter build needs several soldier, common and arch-millitant traits to start getting in gear, plus some items. I have noticed usually around lvl 26-28 is when it starts shining. And then when 1st lvl Exemplar hits, if you guess the right trait...

I am now on Unfair, because normal was just ridiculously easy. On Normal, my shooters were missing with regularity, even still at lvl 35.. Which I assume will only worsen on Unfair.. Both Argentina, and a hireling that I made, that was speccd like her, but speccd into heavy bolters, ad opposed to her flame thrower.. I was relying mostly on Warp powers, and melee, and quickly cleaning up in round 1, maybe round 2 if theyre spread out.

Argenta is fine on her own, but she REALLY likes buffs.
Last time I checked she clocked in a something like 214 BS, so she could essentially not miss and had 100% crit rate. Then between the backpack that adds firerate and the soldier ability she has 12 base shots I believe, doubled to 24, all crits. Followed by 12 more guaranteed hits across what feels like the entire map if she has line of sight.

Though I reckon a lot of her utility comes from having a grand strategist.
It buffs damage by a lot, which makes her mow down everything in sight.

And there are not enough talents slots in the game for all the stuff she benefits from....

[Rizilliant]

I was using the two buffs youre pseaking of, but with the hireling I made. His hit rate was quite low, and with heavy projectile weapons having low dmg per round, and low armor pene, it doesnt seem to add up well.. Then the ultimate only allowing a buttload of single attacks, I was just more impressed with the heavy flamer. Shes usually the one I buff with Cassia, and give extra turns

This new play through I am using more ranged, and seeing if I can get it off better. I just got The Bladedancer companion again, which prompted this question.

[Heart of Storm]

Unfortunately the game doesnt factor in the core 40k/GW game rule of 2 melee weapons giving an extra attack, which would let you use both per round, so 2 weapons means you have a choice of what to hit an opponent with, but you will always do more damage with a 2handed weapon

[Taifun_Vash]

Originally posted by Heart of Storm:

Unfortunately the game doesnt factor in the core 40k/GW game rule of 2 melee weapons giving an extra attack, which would let you use both per round, so 2 weapons means you have a choice of what to hit an opponent with, but you will always do more damage with a 2handed weapon

With dual weapon specialist and melee weapon specialist, if you wield a mace or ax you can use sweep/shove for one ap and then the second weapon also for one ap, without any debuff.

[Magni]

Some classes/class combinations can profit quite a bit from going pistol+melee. My first character was a Soldier - > Archmilitant with the Soldier built for AoE instead of rapid-firing weapon. They then went plasma pistol+sword in the first slot and packed a flamer/melta/shotgun into the second slot later on. Extremely flexible frontliner with a ton of damage output.